Insulated cooler panels for a shop ceiling?

[MushCreek]

I'm still trying to figure out an effective yet affordable ceiling and insulation for my shop. I'm seeing used cooler panels pretty cheap on FB. They are 4" thick, with a steel skin on either side. I see used ones as cheap as $1 a square foot. Anyone use these? The good thing is that they are usually around R-30 insulation value, and are finished, so once they're up, you're done. The potential downsides are weight, as a 42" X 84" foot long panel is around 70 lbs. Then there's the issue of fastening them. My overhead framing is stout to support the loft floor, so that's not an issue. I'd need really long screws, though. They're quite strong, so you wouldn't need a lot of fasteners. The holes would have to be carefully measured and pre-drilled to be sure to hit a framing member. Thoughts?

 

[NUTTSGT]

That's going to take a long fastener (atleast 6-8" ) and you're going to lose 4" of ceiling height. The latter may not work for some people.

Around here, people used to use garage door panels that were "seconds". They didn't provide a huge amount of insulation, but btter than none at all.

 

[mike93lx]

R30 is a little high for 4" of foam, probably more like 24-28...either way, better than no insulation but way below what you really should have for ceilings.
Why give up all that space, plus the complexity of install when drywall/blow in is pretty cheap and easy?

Used cooler panels are probably not going to look great

 

[racecougar]

I think they would have to be free to be worth considering. They'll be a PITA to install, I can't imagine that they'll look great, and they don't offer enough R-value for a ceiling.

 

[txvwnut]

If they were damn cheap to free price I would say get them use them as a subfloor for the loft then glue 3/4" t&g plywood to them for a surface floor. Setting them on top of the joists is easier than hanging them and you will be able to keep a sight line for fastening.

 

[MushCreek]

If I were building the shop now, using them for a loft floor would have been a good idea, but it would be difficult now. The R30 guesstimate is from companies that sell them that advertise anywhere from R28 to R32. I'm in a mild climate, so R30 is plenty, as opposed to the R0 I have now. New houses being built around here are only R30 in the attic, R13 in the walls. I'm going to be R19 in the walls. As for the ceiling height, the ceilings are 12' 4-1/2", so no issue at all. I built them tall to allow for a lift, but I'm too old for a lift now, so that's not going to happen.

As for cost- I'm having a hard time finding cheap insulation. I hate doing drywall, as once it's up (the easy part) you have to tape, mud, sand, and paint. I'd only use drywall if I hired someone to do it. Same with blown in insulation. One of the logistical problems is that the shop is FULL of heavy stuff. I'm going to have to move stuff out of one area, finish the ceiling, then move the stuff back. A hired drywall guy isn't going to want to come back 4 or more times to do it in stages. Sure, the cooler panels won't look quite as nice, but I don't really care. They're white, and that's all I care about. My original plan was to insulate then cover it with metal roofing, but that stuff has gotten pricey. It's around a buck a square foot, plus insulation is also that much, so you're double the cost of the cooler panels.

I think locating the holes will be easy. Measure the spacing of the joists, and mark and drill from the back side (top) of the cooler panel. Then it doesn't matter if you wander a little drilling through. The surface that goes up against the joist will be in the right spot. 6" screws should be plenty.

I'm not trying to make this place living-space comfortable. In the winter, it gets down to the mid 30's in there. 50 would be fine. Same in the summer- it rarely gets above 80 in the shop, which is tolerable, although it's humid. I plan to use a min-split for HVAC. I have a finished great room on the other end of the barn, and it's fairly comfortable year-round with only R19 in the walls and ceiling. A small mini easily keeps it comfortable, and there's a 22' ceiling in there.

 

[racecougar]

Please post photos along the way.

 

[MushCreek]

Well, I was hoping someone out there had already done this so I could get some experienced advice instead of speculation. Maybe there's a reason that no one has done this...

 

[mike93lx]

Well, I was hoping someone out there had already done this so I could get some experienced advice instead of speculation. Maybe there's a reason that no one has done this...

Your post has also only been up for a few hours. Maybe someone will chime in, but I doubt the liklihood of finding someone that has done this

 

[theoldwizard1]

R30 is a little high for 4" of foam, probably more like 24-28

They are probably from polyisocyanurate (poly iso). If has the highest "R per inch" of all foam panels.

• Poly iso should not be exposed to flames, sparks, or other ignition sources during storage, transit, or application.
• When burned, poly iso releases smoke that may contain toxic and/or irritating combustion products, including carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and carbon.

Poly iso is also used under flat roofs with gravel ballast. If the gravel was not attached with tar, they can be reused. Used panels are cheap when you can find them.

 

[dcg9381]

Well, I was hoping someone out there had already done this so I could get some experienced advice instead of speculation. Maybe there's a reason that no one has done this...

I've seen them used, but typically on vertical walls. Beats spending the money on new foam board.
Foam board is commonly used in residential construction.. Zip-R is sheeting with foam board.

Provide an overall design. You're creating an "attic space" and some insulation is better than no insulation for sure.. Are you heating and cooling the space below it?

 

[MushCreek]

This is for the downstairs. Upstairs is just a storage loft, with no insulation. It does provide a temperature buffer, though. Right now the ceiling consists of 2X10 floor joists (for the loft) and 3/4" decking for the loft floor. Insulating in between the 2X10's would be a pain because they're 12" on center. I've even considered dropping the ceiling with light framing, spaced on 24" centers to make insulating quicker and easier. I don't need the ceiling height anyway. The only easy way to insulate between the 2X10's would be to staple up landscape fabric and blow insulation in. Access is tricky because there are two carrier beams that are under the 2X10's. Basically, there is an 8' wide bay on each side, and the center bay is roughly 13' wide.

 

[PWC Repair]

Years of use.......that polyiso is probably r4-r5 per inch.......BUT, I was an HVACR counterman for 18 years, those cooler panels are probably waterlogged as well.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Years of use.......that polyiso is probably r4-r5 per inch.......BUT, I was an HVACR counterman for 18 years, those cooler panels are probably waterlogged as well.

I'd agree on the possibility of being water logged. I've been around quite a few and it was common. Check to see how badly the skin is rusted or corroded.
Another issue is aesthetics. I only recall seeing a few that weren't banged up and dented. Those were probably new.

 

[MushCreek]

I hadn't thought about them being water logged. I guess you could tell by the weight? Either way, I'll have to go look at them before making a commitment.

 

[bdbecker]

This is for the downstairs. Upstairs is just a storage loft, with no insulation. It does provide a temperature buffer, though. Right now the ceiling consists of 2X10 floor joists (for the loft) and 3/4" decking for the loft floor. Insulating in between the 2X10's would be a pain because they're 12" on center. I've even considered dropping the ceiling with light framing, spaced on 24" centers to make insulating quicker and easier. I don't need the ceiling height anyway. The only easy way to insulate between the 2X10's would be to staple up landscape fabric and blow insulation in. Access is tricky because there are two carrier beams that are under the 2X10's. Basically, there is an 8' wide bay on each side, and the center bay is roughly 13' wide.

If it were my shop, I'd fill the cavities with R-30 batt insulation. You can trim them to width if you'd like, but I'd be tempted just to stuff the whole batt in the cavity to save time. Price for kraft paper pink fiberglass is nearly the same as the panels you are looking at ($1.12 per square foot).

Owens Corning R-30 Faced Fiberglass Insulation Batt 16 in. x 48 in. (1 Bag) ME24 - The Home Depot

Owens Corning PINK Next Gen Fiberglas insulation installs faster because it's made like no other fiberglass insulation. PINK Next Gen fiberglass insulation batts recover instantly, cut and split cleanly,

www.homedepot.com

If you are worried about the insulation pushing down, install some of these support wires while you're at it. You could theoretically cut the 24" rods in half to make them work for your spacing.

Simpson Strong-Tie 23-1/2 in. Insulation Support (100-Pack) IS24-R - The Home Depot

Keep your insulation firmly in place with Simpson Strong-Tie insulation supports. The insulation supports are cut from carbon steel, spring wire for optimum flexibility and strength. Mitered tips dig into the wood, securing itself and insulation when installed between joists.

www.homedepot.com

Now that you have your insulation installed and supported by wires, you are free to choose almost anything to sheet the ceiling with since it doesn't really need to hold any weight. Maybe you could find a deal on some 1x pine boards and do a shiplap-style ceiling? Pre-paint them white before installing, use an air nailer to hang them, and then roll a quick touch-up coat of paint on before moving on.

The nice part being that you can spread out the cost over time. Clear out one area of the shop, insulate, cover, and then move on to the next as time and money allow.

 

[MushCreek]

Yeah, I've been trying to find a deal on insulation, but everyone seems to want the same price. To be honest, I could just put up the batts and leave it as-is until money becomes available to cover them. I don't think batts are any more flammable than the open framing I have now.

 

[racecougar]

Yeah, I've been trying to find a deal on insulation, but everyone seems to want the same price. To be honest, I could just put up the batts and leave it as-is until money becomes available to cover them. I don't think batts are any more flammable than the open framing I have now.

If you buy from Menards when they have their 11% rebate and combine that with any worthwhile CC signup (pick one that suits you, whether that's cash back or travel rewards), your effective rebate can be significant.

 

[bdbecker]

Yeah, I've been trying to find a deal on insulation, but everyone seems to want the same price. To be honest, I could just put up the batts and leave it as-is until money becomes available to cover them. I don't think batts are any more flammable than the open framing I have now.

Correct. If you don't care about how it looks, you'll be just fine insulating now and closing it up later. Fiberglass insulation doesn't really burn, but will start to melt around 1000F.

I totally hear you on the money front... it took me a couple of years to get the walls and ceiling of my shop insulated and closed up. It was well worth it though.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Years of use.......that polyiso is probably r4-r5 per inch....

Google says closer to R6/inch. Obviously new.

 

[MushCreek]

No Menard's in this part of the country.