Insulated door, higher value better?

[HunterDan]

It's time to choose the doors for my barn, I have one centered 14x18 door and one 8x7. I plan to eventually insulate the building, but my question is, at what point in the door insulation a waste of money?

One quote I have is for the 14x18, no windows.

r9 value w/opener $4300
R18 w/opener $4670

The 8x7's are

R9 w/opener $1445
R6.5 w/ opener 1395


Should I go all out and get the r18 big door and r9 small door, or would r6 be sufficient for both?

 

[astroracer]

What you need to do is price out the actual cost of the insulation. It's only foamboard, right? What is the cost of buying non-insulated doors and doing it later as you get the shop done...
Mark

 

[jstroede]

What are the door models, and no it is not just foam board.

Is that right, 14 wide by 18 tall?

John

 

[Falcon67]

I thought we had a discussion on here - somewhere - that many of the "R-X" door ratings were virtually bogus.

 

[HunterDan]

^^thats what I was thinking.

The door is 14 tall 18 wide

These prices are for clopay doors

 

[bjcouche]

For the large door, the cost between R9 and R18 is minimal, so I'd spring for the R18. That's a pretty wide door, I'm wondering if it's a commercial type door, and thicker and heavier, thus affording a higher R value. The time to insulate a garage door is when you buy it, not later. The insulation is sandwiched between the two steel panels, not affixed to the inside. With a well insulated door, it's important to get a good seal around the edges to prevent air infiltration. In most garages, the door is the weakest link in the insulated structure. Walls are typically insulated to R19, why should doors be so different, especially when they are that big.... I'd even ask if the small door is the same style as the large one, especially if they will look different, which could be the case if one is commercial and the others are residential... My 14h X 16W is R6 and I wish it was more, but too late now.

Brian

 

[HunterDan]

Thanks for the input!

Yes the large door is a commercial door. The small door is residential, but is on an enclosed part of my lean to, so the two doors being different isn't a big deal, there not close to each other

 

[NUTTSGT]

You're spending big bucks on a huge door. At over 4 grand for the door, what's another $300 for double the insulation ?

The smaller door is a fifty dollar difference. If you're springing that much on the larger door, why fret over 50 dollar upgrade for a little more insulation ?

Granted, it's not my money but you're only buying these doors once.

 

[pablo94sc]

Insulation really is only as good as your lowest R value, so there is no sense spending more money than needed. I'd go R9 on both.

 

[ForceFed70]

Insulation really is only as good as your lowest R value, so there is no sense spending more money than needed. I'd go R9 on both.

Lol. What? That makes no sense at all.

I'd agree if he wasn't planning to insulate the rest of the building. But that is his plan and he does live in an area that get's darn cold in the winter.

 

[ForceFed70]

It's time to choose the doors for my barn, I have one centered 14x18 door and one 8x7. I plan to eventually insulate the building, but my question is, at what point in the door insulation a waste of money?

One quote I have is for the 14x18, no windows.

r9 value w/opener $4300
R18 w/opener $4670

The 8x7's are

R9 w/opener $1445
R6.5 w/ opener 1395


Should I go all out and get the r18 big door and r9 small door, or would r6 be sufficient for both?

When I had to make this choice - I went with the higher R value doors.

I figured that if I was spending that kind of money on premium doors and openers I might as well spend the 10% extra for double the R value.

It also gets you a thicker door which is more sturdy, handles high wind better, etc.

Something to consider - the thicker (higher R) doors are heavier. Make sure your opener can handle the additional weight.

 

[upndown]

.Additional weight is not a factor! These are new doors and springs will be calculated accordingly.

 

[soapii]

Something to consider - the thicker (higher R) doors are heavier. Make sure your opener can handle the additional weight.

That is completely a non issue. The springs (tension) handles the weight. The opener simply provides the movement.

If you have ever serviced an opener, most have plastic worm gears. No way those could handle the weight of a garage door regardless of the thickness/R value.

--Joe

 

[soapii]

To the OP, I have Clopay doors at my house and all are insulated. We opted for the polyurethane injected doors as opposed to the polystyrene doors for the higher R value. They are great doors, very sturdy, very well made.

--Joe

 

[ForceFed70]

Well - it's easy to tell who knows garage doors and openers well and who doesn't.

Weight is indeed an issue folks! Yes the springs balance the weight, but it's still an issue for openers. More weight = more force to get the door moving and stop it from moving. It also means more friction against the track making the door harder to move even with spring assistance. This is why openers specify either (or often both) a maximum weight or door size.

 

[pablo94sc]

Lol. What? That makes no sense at all.

I'd agree if he wasn't planning to insulate the rest of the building. But that is his plan and he does live in an area that get's darn cold in the winter.

Sure it does. R-value is a measure of thermal resistance. You can have the best insulation money can buy and a super tight building envelope, but as soon as you open a door the effective R-value of that envelope basically drops to zero (no thermal resistance with an open door). Having R-18 on the big door is fine if everything else is R-18, but in this case that's not possible. Spend the extra $370 on attic insulation that'll help keep the heat from escaping out the roof.

 

[Falcon67]

Still going to have around a 1/4 ~ 1/2" air gap around the big door that is 252 feet long, sealed with a thin strip of vinyl. I'd think that reduces the effect of the insulation somewhat. If the door will fit snug to the trim, maybe with foam strip seal, then it may be different.

If the door is engineered to reduce the conduction of cold, then I'd say it's a good buy.

FWIW -
My Clopay plain jane steel door get's cold when it's cold outside. When it was a bare door, it was damn cold walking by it. Placing 1/2" insulation into the door spaces cut the "radiation" ( engineers would say heat absorption I'll bet) by a large amount. That foam board is listed as R3.2. It's certainly not as nice looking as an insulated door from the factory.

 

[DC73]

Should I go all out and get the r18 big door and r9 small door, or would r6 be sufficient for both?

Do your best to at least match the R-value you plan to put in the walls. Otherwise, the doors become the weak spot in your insulation system.

DC

 

[DC73]

Insulation really is only as good as your lowest R value, . . .

That's not true. You are basically saying that if he installs an R9 door, the entire place is rated at R9. Heat loss and gain is calculated for each wall, ceiling, floor, window, door, etc, independently. The total heat gain or loss for a building is the sum of the individual heat gains or losses from each component.

If the garage doors are R18 but the walls are R13, he will lose less heat (or have less heat gain) through the area covered by the garage door (when closed of course).

The extra cost for the R18 door will pay back eventually (if the place is to be heated or cooled). The question is how long will it take to pay back. This can be calculated but it's very tedious.

The payback becomes a moot point if the desired result is simply increased comfort. I'd rather be working near an R18 door in the cold of winter than an R9 door.

DC

 

[ForceFed70]

Sure it does. R-value is a measure of thermal resistance. You can have the best insulation money can buy and a super tight building envelope, but as soon as you open a door the effective R-value of that envelope basically drops to zero (no thermal resistance with an open door). Having R-18 on the big door is fine if everything else is R-18, but in this case that's not possible. Spend the extra $370 on attic insulation that'll help keep the heat from escaping out the roof.

He said he's going to insulate the rest of the building as well. Why is all of the heat going to be escaping out of the roof?

 

[pablo94sc]

He said he's going to insulate the rest of the building as well. Why is all of the heat going to be escaping out of the roof?

Umm, because heat rises.

 

[pablo94sc]

That's not true. You are basically saying that if he installs an R9 door, the entire place is rated at R9. Heat loss and gain is calculated for each wall, ceiling, floor, window, door, etc, independently. The total heat gain or loss for a building is the sum of the individual heat gains or losses from each component.

If the garage doors are R18 but the walls are R13, he will lose less heat (or have less heat gain) through the area covered by the garage door (when closed of course).

The extra cost for the R18 door will pay back eventually (if the place is to be heated or cooled). The question is how long will it take to pay back. This can be calculated but it's very tedious.

The payback becomes a moot point if the desired result is simply increased comfort. I'd rather be working near an R18 door in the cold of winter than an R9 door.

DC

True, but why get into complicated calculations? R-9 garage doors are fine for m most applications, and the money is better put into insulating the rest of the building, IMO.

 

[ForceFed70]

Umm, because heat rises.

Yes, and that's what the insulation is for.

Are you somehow under the impression that ceilings aren't insulated or something?

 

[scrambled]

I just bought 2 12 x 14 doors with r18 insulation and 1 opener for 5500 installed. This is in Ky


Steve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bobmulry]

Hi,

I don't know if you have COSTCO near you, but I just had 2 12 X 12 X R9 doors installed for $2000.00............

I bought and installed the LiftMaster 8500 openers myself...

Openers cost $550.00.....

Bob

FYI...They also have soft vinyl seals that mount to the door frames that are adjustable for a tight seal with no gaps or air leaks...

 

[rayra]

R9 rigid foam is about .80/sq'. So you are being upcharged by 50%+ for the extra R-value. If you are handy, do it yourself and save a $100. But if you are unskilled in that sort of thing or place a higher value on your time, just pay for the upgrade.

It is worth doing either way, especially in hot or cold climes. Made a huge difference in the interior summertime temp in my east-facing 2car attached suburban garage metal door.

 

[ForceFed70]

R9 rigid foam is about .80/sq'. So you are being upcharged by 50%+ for the extra R-value. If you are handy, do it yourself and save a $100. But if you are unskilled in that sort of thing or place a higher value on your time, just pay for the upgrade.

It is worth doing either way, especially in hot or cold climes. Made a huge difference in the interior summertime temp in my east-facing 2car attached suburban garage metal door.

Sorta. But it's way nicer to have this done from the factory as a factory insulated door is finished on both sides with the insulation sandwiched in the middle. That's why the door is so much stronger and more rigid as a result of getting a factory insulated door. You're not just paying for the insulation when you buy an insulated door.

 

[HunterDan]

Thanks for all of the input!

At this point, I'm figuring as much as I've spent on this building, I may as well pay the extra 300 for the r18. The lifts specd with the door is a lift master medium dirt hoist, no model number on the quote.

 

[Dustball]

The cost difference isn't just the R-value being increased. The insulation type changes from polystyrene to polyurethane. A polyurethane-filled door is much more rigid since the inner and outer skins are bonded together.

I just had my doors replaced last week with the Clopay 2" polyurethane insulated doors along with insulated windows in the top panel and I'm liking what I have so far.

 

[encantofred]

my 2 cents worth. you can see my garage doors on my shop in my avatar

i did the Clopay Premium doors. 2 doors that are 14 wide and 15 high.

R18.4. not only is the R value higher, the strength of the door is because the foam is sandwitched structurally between the inner and outer pieces of metal.

i also went nuts and got special order insulated glass in the windows. my shop faces the morning sun and in august in the phoenix area, that is a lot of heat.

my shop is 2x8 with r30 in the walls plus outer sheathing, 1" foam and stucco.

one day this summer when it was 120 outside, it was a little less than 90 inside with no aircon.

i took pictures outside in the morning sun.

see below. inside and out

tom

 

[hippie2cams]

OP you need to remember that garage doors are measured width to higth and your door is 18x14 not 14x18. If you order a 14x18 you will get a door that will be 14w by 18h