Insulating a square tube metal building??

[Bpoole]

Im looking for an economical way to insulate my metal building. Ive searched a lot of threads and only came up with pole building options. My building is 24x36x10 its a metal carport style with a vertical roof. i actually havent took delivery of it yet, should be here in a few days(i hope). Im just trying to get my budget together for the interior. I plan on putting some type of wood interior finish like osb. i was wondering what would be the best and least expensive way to go about insulating.

 

[AlabamaGuy]

Something like Prodex is a good option. From what I read, I would do it between the poles and metal siding during construction.

 

[readhead]

Normally I would suggest blanket insulation but you are probably getting 29ga sheeting on pretty wide centers. Since you want to finish the interior I would suggest horizontal hat chanels 24"oc on the inside over foam board or bat insulation then install whatever finish you want

 

[Bpoole]

The company I went with offered the double bubble insulation . But I opted out, seem expensive for what it is. I was hoping to maybe use batt insulation. Can I put it up against the siding or does there need to be a air gap. I was going to use the hat channel or 1x4s length wise to attach my interior panels.

 

[gmtech]

Following as I have one coming as well. Mine comes with the double bubble insulation on the roof. Right now my plan is to use 1" or 2" foam board insulation with a reflective backing (pointing out for radiant) and then using horizontal hat channel and lining the inside with "blemished" 29ga white roofing tin that I can buy locally for $1 per foot. I'm located in NC so I'm not in a very cold environment.

But I too would like to hear opinions on using regular fiberglass insulation.

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[JeremiahTRD]

Consider spray foam insulation.

It will prevent condensation issues and last the life of the building.

I'm a bit biased though as I'm in the business.

Foam is expensive but you get what you pay for. Our customers get a lifetime warranty.

As for the bubble foil wrap I'm glad you opted not to install it.

We routinely replace those type products. It breaks down over time and falls apart.

I know your after a budget approach but trust me spray foam is the only product that will not give you problems down the road. I've been in this business for over a decade.

I've seen all the issues that come from fiberglass insulation in metal buildings.

Heck if your heating the building it will pay for itself in no time, It will cut your heat bill in

half.

 

[gtcs]

Spray foam.
Or, since you haven't taken delivery yet, the option I didn't know of... you can add uprights and make them 4 foot on center. Would have made my life much easier at every stage.

 

[goat1252002]

2 inch foam board insulation is going to be your cheapest and best bet. Upgrade to the 4 foot on center walls makes it a lot easier so you don’t have to add an 1 foot strip. Spray foam is definitely the best in this type of building but it’s expensive.

 

[Firebrick43]

Since you have not taken delivery yet I just wanted to make sure you understood something. While I fully see the value of these carport style garage to store a vehicle or boat, a full fledge shop they will not be.

They way they set on the slab will allow leaks underneath the edges. Seeps will come in the side walls due to no appreciable overhang and the horizontally applied siding. The way the roll up doors and man door is set up is not normally sufficient. I say these things because there has been those before you with unrealistic expectations come back and complain about the leaks. Add to the fact that it's difficult to properly insulate I have to ask why not go with a pole style construction.

 

[readhead]

Firebrick43, I must disagree with your assessment. There are a lot of bad installations and they are just that. I have sold and installed a lot of these buildings and they are engineered for our snow load and permited. It is simply another way to build a metal building. Garage doors function exactly the same. I will be the first one to say that there are a lot of poor quality products and installations and an uneducated consumer can be taken advantage of very quickly.

 

[gmtech]

Since you have not taken delivery yet I just wanted to make sure you understood something. While I fully see the value of these carport style garage to store a vehicle or boat, a full fledge shop they will not be.

They way they set on the slab will allow leaks underneath the edges. Seeps will come in the side walls due to no appreciable overhang and the horizontally applied siding. The way the roll up doors and man door is set up is not normally sufficient. I say these things because there has been those before you with unrealistic expectations come back and complain about the leaks. Add to the fact that it's difficult to properly insulate I have to ask why not go with a pole style construction.

While I fully understand all of your concerns, as I have considered them all aswell. you have to consider our climate here in the south east. They are very common around here and have seen may turned into complete condition shop space as I plan to do without issue. My 30x30x12 metal building is running me just a tick over $10,000 delivered and installed with tax, 2 10x10 insulated normal garage doors and normal steel walk in door. Pricing pole buildings that surface mount to the slab or foundation are running $8,000ish without any doors or windows and no installation. So I can easily see $15,000-$18,000 for a pole building with doors, windows and hiring someone to assemble.

 

[Bpoole]

Pole buildings close to me were going to be $2000/$4000 more than what I spent..I looked at all options. My dad has 2 of the carport style garages and I have a friend that just had one built and I like it especially for the money. I just want a nice dry place for my hobbies. Working on junk. Not sure about spray foam. it's expensive. I have a close friend that is a manager at a large local building supply company. I can get insulation and my interior panels at his cost which is cheaper than I can get it any where. I also looked at stick building my shop at his cost, wasn't any cheaper just for the material then the time and labor to build it.

 

[Firebrick43]

Firebrick43, I must disagree with your assessment. There are a lot of bad installations and they are just that. I have sold and installed a lot of these buildings and they are engineered for our snow load and permited. It is simply another way to build a metal building. Garage doors function exactly the same. I will be the first one to say that there are a lot of poor quality products and installations and an uneducated consumer can be taken advantage of very quickly.

I didn't mean to imply that they were not certified to structural loads. I don't have an issue with them as a carport. It's just I have not seen one weather tight yet. I am sorry about the door comment. I don't know what my fingers were typing but I mentioned to say the doors I have seen were not flashe'd correctly.

I would like to know how to install one to the slab so the is no water ingress under the walls. The slab has to be wider than the structure or the redheads will blow the concrete edge out due to being only an 1" away from the edge. While foam sill seal and sealant helps it's not permanent or sure thing. That why all typical structure cover and over lap the seal and the slab/foundation doesn't extend past.

Howevery my intent was not to necessarily disuade the OP but made him aware of issue that many face when trying to do what he is attempting before it was to late.. If he is ok with them (and doesn't come back and complain later) then ok.

 

[gmtech]

I didn't mean to imply that they were not certified to structural loads. I don't have an issue with them as a carport. It's just I have not seen one weather tight yet. I am sorry about the door comment. I don't know what my fingers were typing but I mentioned to say the doors I have seen were not flashe'd correctly.

I would like to know how to install one to the slab so the is no water ingress under the walls. The slab has to be wider than the structure or the redheads will blow the concrete edge out due to being only an 1" away from the edge. While foam sill seal and sealant helps it's not permanent or sure thing. That why all typical structure cover and over lap the seal and the slab/foundation doesn't extend past.

Howevery my intent was not to necessarily disuade the OP but made him aware of issue that many face when trying to do what he is attempting before it was to late.. If he is ok with them (and doesn't come back and complain later) then ok.

In response to anchoring them to a slab. Sadly, the normal around here is to pour the slab the same size as the building and use the red heads right on the edge....Something that was NOT going to happen on mine. I custom ordered mine with heavy 2.5''x3'' angle iron welded to the inside of the bottom rail everywhere they would normally anchor it. Basically moving the red heads about 4'' from the edge of the slab.

 

[readhead]

As mentioned most companies offer the angle clip option if you know to ask for it. I sell Versatube and I use the same concrete detail as our red iron buildings with a sheeting notch. With the standard base rail it puts the anchors 3" from the edge. We also use LDT's or epoxy rather than wedge anchors.
It is unfortunate that a lot of companies place the slab larger than the building. Makes it easier for the installer but bad for the owner.

 

[Firebrick43]

Well an angle clip would take care of the biggest issue with the carport style garages.

I wonder why don't the manufactures just make the angle clips standard so dealers (such as the one here locally) don't continue to sell and install them on slabs that are a foot larger than the building?

 

[rsanter]

Spray foam will be the best but not the cheapest.

Cheaper,option I would look at is rigid foam that is then held in by the OSB skin you mentioned

 

[readhead]

Firebrick43, that would require some actual knowledge and coordination on the part of the supplier. Most of those carports are cheap for a reason. The guys that put them up are installers, not tradsmen. They know how to do one thing. Kudos to them for being productive members of society but they are not craftsmen.

 

[finn]

Sometimes you have to look at where you want to be at the end of a project and what the total project cost will be when you get there.

In the case of these modified carport *** shops, if one desires a weather tight, climate conditioned shop, you have to look beyond the cost of putting up some walls and a cover on a slab.

There are a few of these up here, but stick built or pole construction are prevalent for heated hobby shops, for a reason.

I also understand these structures are quick and easy ways to get a shelter, and are popular in mild climates, but they do seem to be temporary solution, at best.

 

[readhead]

I did a 40x60 with a 90# snow load, insulated and heated. It's all about planning, material and execution just like any other job. I do red iron buildings and started doing tube steel about two years ago. The big advantage to tube steel is less equipment. I'm not sending a crane and a skytrak out on smaller jobs.

 

[Bpoole]

Well this went from how to insulate to what building was better pretty fast..

So I guess my best option would be get a better building..
Since that's out . Will batt insulation work and does their need to be an air gap? Or just use the Ridgid foam boards. If using the Ridgid foam boards does their need to be an air gap..any other recommendations for insulation.. I know spray foam might be an option too..anyone know about how much it might cost the building is 24x36x10. Maybe just spray the roof and donthe sides with something else?

 

[GrantOpus]

I have a 24x40x12. I had it spray foamed with closed cell foam. 2” on the roof a 1” on the walls. Cost was $3K.




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[GrantOpus]

I don’t have water going under the walls on mine. The tin overlaps the slab. I also have 26ga tin and 12 ga frame. I went with insulated overhead doors.



I am currently sheeting the interior with 3/4” plywood. Do far I am very happy with mine.



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[finn]

Well this went from how to insulate to what building was better pretty fast..

So I guess my best option would be get a better building..
Since that's out . Will batt insulation work and does their need to be an air gap? Or just use the Ridgid foam boards. If using the Ridgid foam boards does their need to be an air gap..any other recommendations for insulation.. I know spray foam might be an option too..anyone know about how much it might cost the building is 24x36x10. Maybe just spray the roof and donthe sides with something else?

You have what you have.

The consensus is that spray foam insulation is most suitable for that type building.

Problem is that you have ruled that out, from what I can tell.

 

[readhead]

Foam board or batt insulation will work. If you use 1 1/2" girts you can use R-13 batts. Vapor barrier would be on the inside here but I believe on the outside there.
I am well aware of all the people who love their spray foam and it is a great product in the right application but this may not be it. Being in the metal building business I am starting to see failures with spray foam. Rusted through sheeting and damaged framing components. It takes several years for these problems to show up and it becomes a very expensive fix. It is an ordeal to dig through the foam to get to the problems. Please consider spray foam very carefully. We state in our contracts that spray foam will void all warranties and several material suppliers are doing the same.

 

[fastbike02]

After mine was built I went back and added 2x4 wall studs and used regular fiberglass insulation. It seemed the best option as it also let me add more screws to the outside tin and mde wiring a lot easier.

 

[hrichard]

My old neighbor had one of these buildings, and after much deliberation we insulated it in a quick and dirty, although effective manner. We took hvac duct pins and used 5200 adhesive and put them all over the inside of the sheeting every 2' on center. Let them set up for a couple days and then started putting 2" r max sheeting on the metal by pushing the pins through and putting their washer on the back side. when all was said and done, we clipped the points off the pins with nippers and taped the seams. No issues after 5 years, we both moved away so I cant tell you how it is now, but I imagine that between the ribbing in the metal and the fact that the foam isnt super tight to the metal, there is enough airflow to prevent corrosion from condensation. Before insulating, a woodstove going full tilt couldnt keep it warm, after, I'm pretty sure you could heat it with a 100 watt lightbulb. lol. As an aside, we made a seal for the roll up door with a couple of strip brushes for a street sweeper and a truck tire liner. Kept the wind and snow from blowing in the top anyway

 

[346ci]

I have a small square tube building, not insulated. It sweats with any large temp change and drips condensation from the ceiling during a frost. The slab is a little bigger than the steel frame so it leaks under the floor tubes. Nothing like opening your tool box and seeing rust.

When I built my recent shop, knew it had to be red iron with insulation.

My advice, save up for a pole barn or red iron. Even more so if you want to add HVAC.

 

[contendernut]

The spray foam looks nice.

 

[Cobra5150]

So how does the cost compare to getting the metal building then making modifications (adding studs/purlins) to be more like conventional construction? After all the costs are added up it may not be that much of a difference.

 

[MrElectric03]

So how does the cost compare to getting the metal building then making modifications (adding studs/purlins) to be more like conventional construction? After all the costs are added up it may not be that much of a difference.

Different areas are different prices of course. I'm planning for a 28'x48' with 12' floor to joist height. Was quoted $40k for traditional stick built(not including foundation or insulation) planning for 60 lb snow load and 90 mph wind and a versatube frame only rated to 90 lb snow load and 120 mph wind which gives 24" on center trusses for easier roll insulation instal is $13k delivered. So I'll have to buy the metal roof panels and probably finish the outside in OSB and vynal siding to match the house but total cost will be less than half that of stick built.

 

[428PI]

I'd like to see more proof of foam causing the sheet metal to deteriorate. I'm not convinced fiberglass is all that great either when rodents are considered.

 

[minytrker]

I have a 26x68 square tube building and closed cell spray foam was the best money spent, well close tie with AC but AC wouldnt be possible without good insulation.

 

[Fartbox333]

Foam board or batt insulation will work. If you use 1 1/2" girts you can use R-13 batts. Vapor barrier would be on the inside here but I believe on the outside there.
I am well aware of all the people who love their spray foam and it is a great product in the right application but this may not be it. Being in the metal building business I am starting to see failures with spray foam. Rusted through sheeting and damaged framing components. It takes several years for these problems to show up and it becomes a very expensive fix. It is an ordeal to dig through the foam to get to the problems. Please consider spray foam very carefully. We state in our contracts that spray foam will void all warranties and several material suppliers are doing the same.

Redhead. I’m looking at the versatube building for a 30x42 garage. How is the insulation they sell? I was considering going that route or foam board. Any advice on which is better? I’ll have a wood stove with radiant heat so the slab will be insulated. I’m nw if Boston so it gets cold but not Yukon cold. Any one better with noise control?

 

[readhead]

I have never used their insulation. I always order from an independent supplier. Noise control isn't just about insulation. Blanket insulation would be my first choice. If it is 29ga cover then no more than 3". 26ga you can go up to 6" but be careful and don't drive the screws in to tight.

 

[Fartbox333]

I have never used their insulation. I always order from an independent supplier. Noise control isn't just about insulation. Blanket insulation would be my first choice. If it is 29ga cover then no more than 3". 26ga you can go up to 6" but be careful and don't drive the screws in to tight.

Just curious if you preferred one over the other for sound dampening. Obviously heat retention is my #1 concern. I think the versatube insulation was somewhere around r-12 or r-13. Not super but with a wood stove and radiant heat it should be a lot warmer than working outside! Also the versatube insulation has a white vynal side that faces in and looks pretty good. It also is sized to fit well. Foam board cuts pretty good but would probably require a bit more labor. Was curious if anyone knew what would be better for sound dampening foam board or batt insulation.

 

[readhead]

Sounds like VT is supplying blanket insulation which would be my first choice. Keep in mind that you are paying their markup on the insulation. That may be fine because you may not be able to purchase at discount prices near you. In most jurisdictions foam insulation of any kind has to be covered for fire spread. The blanket insulation is a finished product.

 

[Fartbox333]

Sounds like VT is supplying blanket insulation which would be my first choice. Keep in mind that you are paying their markup on the insulation. That may be fine because you may not be able to purchase at discount prices near you. In most jurisdictions foam insulation of any kind has to be covered for fire spread. The blanket insulation is a finished product.

That’s probably the way I’m leaning. Thanks for the input.

 

[Natemade]

I used blanket insulation cut to fit between the 5ft centers and am very happy with it. Best bang for buck I could find for this style building. It was at about 1500 for my 30x60x12

 

[readhead]

Nice job.