Insulating Metal Building??

[camaroman7d]

Hello I am new to the board. Looks like a great place to share ideas and knowledge. I see some names here I know from other car forums. I attempted to do several searches before posting but, came up empty.

Here's the deal, I just ordered my steel building, I want to insulate it and I'm not sure of the best way to go. The building is only 24 X 26'. I originally thought about using the spray foam insulation but, for the fire rated stuff it is not cheap over $2100 just for the kits not including shipping. I am now thinking about just finishing the inside walles with sheetrock and using conventional type insulation. It doesn't get real cold where I live but, it does get VERY hot.

What are you guys with metal buildings doing for insulation?

Thanks,
Royce

 

[denis4x4]

I have several garages and I had the spray put on the moniter roof that has a 6/12 pitch and 566 SF of floor space and the cost was $1100 installed. It's **** ugly, but is sure does do the job. It was 12 degrees this AM!

 

[REFLEXX]

Royce,

I insulated my miracle Truss building with conventional fibereglass and drywall. My girts & purlins are wood, but should work the same for steel.

take a look at the link below.

 

[camaroman7d]

Denis,
Is the foam you listed fire rated? The reason I ask is because I do a lot of welding/grinding and the last thing I need is to burn up all my tools and toys. My "building" will be used more as a workshop than a "garage". I am not real concerned about looks and am more concerned about function. What brand of foam was it you had installed?

Reflexx,
Nice shop. My building will not have wood, it is all tubular steel. I would just use "tech screws" to install the sheetrock. I'm just trying to figure out the most cost effective and mosteffective way to insulate the building, Fire safety is an issue, I know using sheetrock over the proper insulation is safe. I just have never seen anyone finish the inside of a steel/metal building.

 

[camaroman7d]

Any opinions on this stuff http://www.insulation4less.com/highr_FfmF.asp

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Generally a steel building (red iron/ z and c channel post and purlins) has insulation pulled tightly from eave to slab and the sheetmetal is screwed on over it. A type of insulation is used with some sort of vinyl or other similar backing that is turned inward. My 60x60 is done this way. Be sure and use the very best quality you can get. My building has the fiber reinforced backing on the insulation deterioating and it now very brittle, I don't allow anyone to even touch or rub the insulation. The only way to replace it is to remove the building's skin a sheet or two at a time, alot of work and expense. I really don't want to try ot finish the inside, I have elect boxes on the columns and C channels that would have to be moved, conduit rebent, etc and the cost of the materials would be prohibitive. For now, I'm just very careful. Again, if you go this route, get the very best with a warranty of some sort. I was short of money and it was one of those (slapping my forehead) "Oh ****! I forget the insulation!" in the budgeting. Went cheap and will always regret it.

Charles

 

[Ign]

Generally a steel building (red iron/ z and c channel post and purlins) has insulation pulled tightly from eave to slab and the sheetmetal is screwed on over it. A type of insulation is used with some sort of vinyl or other similar backing that is turned inward.

Ditto, this would be my thought on how to do it.

The slab may also be poured w a notch around the perimeter for the sheeting to tuck in flush on the exterior at grade (approx)

 

[camaroman7d]

The slab/foundation is already done, just waiting for them to show up with the building. After searching the web for hours, it seems that putting the insulation on before the extrior panels is not the best choice. I have decided not to do it that way. Icylene <sp> seems to be the very best and most expensive route. The next best thing seems to be to install the insulation after the building is done. I have to have fire rated insulation or I will have to finish the inside walls. I will be doing a lot of welding, grinding inside the building and to meet code it have to be fire rated/retardant or covered with something that is.

 

[carguy123]

The normal insulation in a metal building is worthless. The insulation for less link is very similar to the OEM insulation.

Foam is wonderful. I dont' know where you got your $2100 price but a quick google showed me multiple sources at a lot less.

It seems that most kits do about 400 square feet which would be a 10' high wall x40', no?

That means a little goes a long way.

Once I get the plumbing, electrical, bedroom and bath finished I will be foaming my workshop so I am interested in your results.

 

[denis4x4]

The spray in I have is fire retardent and has a R factor of 20 plus. I talked to a couple of metal building erectors and got the name of the spray on guy in the yellow pages.

 

[camaroman7d]

The $2100 was just for three kits which is what it would take. I will post the link to the site. This is fire rated foam I am talking about. If it is not fire rated I will have to cover it with sheetrock. Care to share your sources for cheaper spray on foam?

 

[camaroman7d]

Here is the link to the foam I was talking about. http://www.fomofoam.com/steel_building_insulation2.htm There is also a calculator to help figure out how much you will need. I came up with a need for 3 kits and they are $700 per kit (for fire rated). Don't forget the ceiling when you are calculating sq ft.

 

[snydes]

Having just put up a steel 40'x60'x16' insulated the normal way w/R19, let me just say that it is WAY a pain in the ****. If doing it over I would have leaned towards another insulation method.

 

[GShelton]

I used the radiant barrier insulation installed during the construction of the building. I live in Florida, so cold is not an issue, but heat is. The radiant is AWESOME! It keeps the inside of the garage nice and cool. It is thin, so it does not cause problems with the siding during installation.

If (or moreso WHEN) I do it again, I will go the same route.

 

[camaroman7d]

I never thought insulation would be such a big issue. I honestly didn't give it much thought. I get varying info from different people that have done it. One thing that seem fairly constant is that normal or batt style insulation does not work well. I have talked to several guys that have used it and says it doesn't work so well. The general consensus seems to be spray on foam is the very best and radiant barrier a close second. I have it limited down to those two and I am leaning towards foam for sound deadening purposes.

 

[W-Cummins]

I sugest you use both. Put the radiant on when you put up the building and then foam it after it's skined. The foam is way more money but I think it's the way to go also. I don't know about the kits sold on the other site. You will need lots of them to get a good R rating, IMHO 1" is not enough. So if you figure at least 2" or better yet 3-4" I think that you will find that it would be cheaper to have some one install it. They listed 2300 just for the shipping on one pallet!

William...

 

[carguy123]

I am told it is an either/or thing w/ foam and radiant barrier.

I am foaming my house as well and everyone told me not to use the radiant barrier decking since I will be foaming up in the roof line.

 

[h-laisure]

The $2100 was just for three kits which is what it would take. I will post the link to the site. This is fire rated foam I am talking about. If it is not fire rated I will have to cover it with sheetrock. Care to share your sources for cheaper spray on foam?

i just put up a 50x100x14 steel building. I didn't want to put the insulation between the sheeting and the purlins, i just jhought that all of those screws wound up in insulation, would be a major pain in the ****. i also heard that putting the insulation between the componets gives the building a wavy apperance instead of a nice flat wall.

I am going to use spray polyurethane insulation.After a couple of outrageous quotes(20k) I ended up buying a spray foam rig and all of the chemicals for 15k. I figured i could spray a couple of buildings a year and make some of my investment back or sell the equipment for 80 cents on the dollar and then my insulation only cost 4000 dollars.

so if you live anywhere near san jose california send me a mesage mabey we can work something out.

harold laisure

 

[ol55]

Since your main concern is heat and not cold, I think the radiant would be a good way for you to go. I have bought some from insulation4less. There are others out there as well...........

 

[camaroman7d]

Harold you have a message.

ol55, Heat is my main concern but, keeping it comfortable in the winter would be nice and I would like to keep the noise inside.

 

[heavytlc]

I have a 60x100x16 1:12pitch building. I was going to use the k13 spray cellulose. The product would not stick to the coating on the inside of my panels. I ended up having to retrofit insulate a 1 week old building. If I had it to do over I would have used R-foil/Refletix on the frame first, and then insulated from the inside with Faced fiberglass.

I ordered all my insulation from Bay insulation(they are nation wide). I went with wmp50 facing, it is a white reinforced material on the inside with an aluminum radiant facing on the fiberglass side. I installed all of the r25 8" insulation with 1 friend helping. I have had to order more of the double sided tape. I have over6000 feet of tape in my building. I installed 3/4 banding strips on 30" centers on the walls and ceiling. It has been an absolute pain in the ***, way more work than I would have ever thought.

I have liner panel around the walls, 93" high. I have decided to use liner panel all the way up the walls to the ceiling. I will be working on the building for the next year if not 2. I want the building as nice and finished as I can make it. It is much more expensive to build a real nice shop than I thought. I will have a super nice shop with a small apartment, 2000sqft of covered outside storage, but I could have built a very nice 3200-3500sqft house. I will build a house, but it will not compare with my shop, and that is fine by me.

 

[camaroman7d]

Where did you by your liner panels and do you remember the cost per panel? What size are the panels? What coating does your building have that the foam would not stick to?

 

[heavytlc]

The liner panel that is up now I bought when I bought the building. I am getting quotes for +/- 2.50 a running foot for 36"wide r panel 26gauge. It was cheaper to buy with the building, but oh well.

The coating is some kind of siliconized polyester film. I thought it sounded strange that I had the first building that my insulation contractor had ever seen with this coating. I sent like 5 1x1 samples to International cellulose in Houston TX. They said the same thing, no go. The k13 is a wet applied cellulose, a little different than icynene, the standard foam insulation. I have been told that the foam is not an approved fire rated product. Not sure if that is true.

At this point I have over 12000 sq feet of insulation in my building. I am wrapping the heavy iron beams and the angle iron struts that attach to the z purlins with Double bubble Rfoil. The inside of my building is completely insulated except for the 8 vertical beams that go from floor to ceiling, and they are painted gloss white.

To help noise more than insulate I have a couple of square feet of Dyna Mat on the back side of all of the liner panel.

I am including a few pictures to show what I am talking about. These are from a few months ago, it is a lot more finished now. It is still a long way from done.

[/IMG]

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The normal insulation in a metal building is worthless. The insulation for less link is very similar to the OEM insulation..

Depends on where you are located and what you are trying to insulate from (heat or cold or both) and how well. I have worked in several completely un-insulated metal buildings in Georgia and it was HOT and COLD. In the summer, the morning sun woud heat the building and the heat would make it feel like you were in an oven at 8 am. In the winter, the uninsulated buildings would get cold soaked and then we would have warm moist air from the south move in and everything would sweat for days on end.

I'm less than an hour north of where I used to be, and I have a 60x60x16 w/2/12 roof building. The insulation applied befrore the steel sheet went on is not perfect, but I've never had the floor sweat or the building get cold soaked, and the summer heat doesn't come blistering thru. Its real noticable in the winter, even on below freezing days the temp in the building stays up in the high 40's if not the 50's. The slab will not get cold soaked and then when things cool, it re-radiates the heat, stabilizing the building temps.

Could it be better? Yes. Is it effective? Yes it is for the climate I'm in. The building isn't heated, but my torpedeo heater doesn't having any problems raising the temp to a comfortable level. Someday I'll get that used/waste oil furnace I want.

Charles