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Insulating my garage, mineral wool

jvitez

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Nov 30, 2009
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Big Sky Country, Canada
I finally bit the bullet and started insulating my garage. Why? See pics 2 and 3.

I decided to use mineral wool, called Roxul in Canada. It's R22 for 5.5 inches instead of R20 for fibreglass, but the two biggest reasons were it's much better water rejection, and the ability to custom cut it to fit. There was a picture I saw somewhere showing water being flooded onto a piece of Roxul, and just flowing off, no absorption. Having repaired a leaky basement window and redoing destroyed wet fibreglass insulation, mineral wool was just the ticket.

The coolest thing is that the manufacturer recommends cutting it to fit with a bread knife! I got one from the dollar store. Works great. I was able to get a really good fit around receptacles. For horizontal electrical wires, all I did was cut it longitudenally and fold it under and around. It has a compressible side and a firm side, so I just push to the left, fold it into the stud bay, and let it spring back taking up any irregularities of the stud.

It is more expensive than fibreglass, and only has 8 pieces per bag, not 10, but I know I'll always regret cheaping out for a few hundred dollars if I didn't use it. I plan on staying here a long time.

I pondered what to do at the LVL header of each garage for a while. My final decision was to install 1 in. of extruded polystyrene rigid insulation (XPS) as a thermal break. The studs are 2x6 and overhang the LVL. It was difficult driving in the plastic cap nails. I bent a few before discovering I had to hit the nail gently many times to slowly work it in. XPS is vapour impermeable, so I'll use Tuck tape to tape down the 6 mil poly onto the top portion of the XPS, but no need to cover it totally. Drywall will cover the studs and XPS in one piece.

I'm at a standstill now as all this cutting and fitting has given me a tendonitis in my hand. 24 bags done, another 4-6 to go. I'm hiring out the drywall. I'll do the paint myself. Lots of work to go, but it feels great to finally be on the way to finishing my personal man cave.

I've learned an enormous amount from this site, so I hope some of you can learn a bit from my experiences too.
 

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jvitez

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Big Sky Country, Canada
"DUDE, it's -1* F INSIDE your garage??? Forget the insulation, I'd be buying plane tickets....
__________________

That ain't tendonitis, that's hypothermia starting to set in. "



:) That which does not kill me makes me stronger.


Actually, it's De Quervain's tenosynovitis. Sounds horrible. Painful but not serious though.

I'll use 6 mil poly for vapour barrier. In Canada, vapour barriers must be labeled CGSB certified, or Canadian General Standards Board, so not all 6 mil poly will do. VP is a requirement in the National Building Code of Canada. I'll use acoustical sealant at the top and bottom plates plus end studs, and use sheathing tape (Tuck tape is the common brand here) for the overlapping joints. I bought a refurbished electric stapler just for this project. $22 so couldn't pass it up. I redid all the electrical boxes, removing them and installing preformed VP poly pans behind each metal box. I replaced all receptacles with double gang boxes and spec grade receptacles. Despite being a 3 year old house, too much was done in a very sloppy manner so I've had to redo far too much. Grrrrrrr.

Anyway, I'm very curious how much warmer it will be once all the insulation/VP is in, without any heat yet.
__________________
 

35mastr

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Norcal
Wow thats cold. Any reason that alot of you that live in the real cold climates wait till its the worse time of the year to insulate your shops????
 

bluesman2a

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Atlanta, Ga.
You know, I JUST bought a whole load of fiberglass for the latest stage of my build. I looked all over for denim and other alternatives like this, but NOBODY around here carries them. It really chaps my *** that better alternatives are out there, but sometimes we just can get them cause it's not what "everybody knows".

I always see the guys from Holmes on Homes using this stuff, never knew what the name was.
 

t. jones

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Dec 18, 2008
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Cambridge On. Canada
I have used alot of this stuff and I like it, factory is just down the road ( disclaimer ) They call it Stone wool. Mineral wool is the itchy stuff that predates the pink stuff...I think ?
Thanx Trevor
 

Dead Skunk

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Sep 27, 2005
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Dexter,Michigan
Jvitez, go down to your local secondhand store and buy an old electric carving knife. It'll save you from the tendonitis. I bought 2 for 2 bucks each. and for the rest of you, -1 degree IS warm in Manitoba this time of year. My sister lived there years ago and they had one winter where the temperature never rose above -35 for 35 straight days !! She moved to the west coast after that.
 
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jmack

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Oct 21, 2008
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...and for the rest of you, -1 degree IS warm in Manitoba this time of year. My sister lived there years ago and they had one winter where the temperature never rose above -35 for 35 straight days !! She moved to the west coast after that.

So...why would anyone want to live there? Are the only residents just those that can't afford to leave?
 
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jvitez

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Big Sky Country, Canada
Jvitez, go down to your local secondhand store and buy an old electric carving knife. It'll save you from the tendonitis.

Awesome tip. Thanks!

So...why would anyone want to live there? Are the only residents just those that can't afford to leave?

Because this is home.
Because you can always insulate yourself better against the cold, but you can't get cooler than naked.
Because snow is fun to play in.
Snow is beautiful.
I love this big sky country. Mountains are claustrophobic.
No mosquitos for half the year.
No rain for half the year.


And finally....because I love the reaction these temperatures engender from people who can't imagine living here. :bounce:
 
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rlme36

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Feb 17, 2008
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Nice install, How are you doing the roof/rafter area? Same material?
 
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jvitez

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What is the advantage to this stuff vs closed cell polystyrene (foamular)?

Different application, really. Foamular is extruded polystyrene (XPS) meant for installation on the outside of a stud wall, either over OSB or instead of it. Unless you live in a very warm climate and only need low R-value, you'd still need to insulate between the studs. Most construction here is 2x6 to allow R20 between the studs. A few houses have 1.5 inch XPS installed on the outside, most don't. Putting polystyrene between the studs would be far too expensive, and not seal properly at the edges of the studs anyway.

Nice install, How are you doing the roof/rafter area? Same material?

Thanks. I'll be installing vapour barrier on the underside of the trusses, then drywall. The attic will be blown in cellulose, probably R-40, maybe R-50. No storage planned.
 

nw2571

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Mar 3, 2008
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236
Just an idea, but for those of us that don't need the extra R-value, but want the convenience of waterproof, it would be cheaper to use this stuff on the bottom 1-2' of each wall and fiberglass above. Tape off the seams, and it should be a nice tight fit. Won't have to be worried about keeping the walls dry if you like to pressure wash your floor for instance.
 

PCO6

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Newmarket, Ontario
Nice work jvitez. I'm doing similar work right now on my 20x20 attached garage. Do you plan to install a vapour barrier on your ceiling? I did on my walls and am about half way through doing the ceiling too. It seems though that some people do put a VB on the ceiling and some don't. Because it's not a living space it doesn't appear to be a code issue. I think if the attic is well ventilated a ceiling VB would be a good thing.
 
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jvitez

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I'll definitely be putting a vapour barrier on the ceiling. With our extreme Manitoba weather I don't want to take a chance on moisture and rot. I hope to live here a long time.

I will be installing some type of heat, but only plan to use it as needed if I'm doing a project. Have a car and motorbike restoration I hope to get to at some point. I told my builder to build the garage as if it was going to be heated, though I didn't know when I'd get around to it. The garage was built with ice & water shield under the bottom rows of shingles, Tyvek house wrap over OSB, and ventilated aluminum soffits with mushroom vents in the roof. I'm sealing it up just like I would indoor living space.
 

birchbark

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alberta
i am in the process of finishing a 50x72x14 shop here in sunny but cold alberta.used 80 bags of roxul in the walls r-22 in 2x6 studs.very nice to work with compared to fiberglass but was about 800 dollars more for tha amount i used. ceiling will be blown in this week.
 

Teken

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The Bad Lands
I plan on doing the exact same thing as jvitez. Some of the reason's I opted to go with Roxul was for it's fire resistance, and properties that bugs and small rodents don't care for.

I spoke to quite a few installers about blown in foam insulation, and knew all the benefits and R value all very valid. Even went to one of those home reno shows when they were all in town to see and touch it.

The difference from 1/2 lbs, vs the 2 lbs stuff was night and day! It's too bad alot of the builders here in the Peg use the 1/2 lbs garbage and pawn it off to uneducated home buyers as the top stuff, mean while it is far from it.

2 lbs is the way to go if money no object and fire safety, off gasing is not a concern.

Also, given that this form of insulation is not fire rated, or safe when ignited I had to pass this applies to any of those which are sprayed on regardless of it being bio or earth friendly.

Also the huge costs for 2 lbs insulation and the fact that you have to be 100% sure no other wiring or retro's will be done in the walls otherwise you just wasted huge $$$ to tear it out, and replace it with the same old stuff, Roxul etc.

My requirements are much higher than the average person so the entire working space must be fire rated.

So, starting from the insulation, dry wall, the shop will have independant ceiling fire extinguishers eached zoned, automatic safety cut off for power on all out lets (dead man's switch), and direct dispatch to the fire dept via my monitoring station.

Hey jvitez BTW: Your ceiling looks as tall as mine, looks to be 10 feet.
 
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jvitez

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Hello neighbor! My ceiling is 12 ft 3 in. I've got high density polyurethane spray foam in the walls of the house, but I couldn't justify spending that type of money on the garage. Though it would have saved me the tendonitis...
Sounds like you're planning on a fabulous space. What type of work will you be doing?
 

Teken

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Don't laugh . . . But, the first thing will be a Queen sized bed!! After all the random stuff like coffee table, wall unit, and a couple of end tables.

The plan is to make it the Man Cave!!! LOL

You're way further than I am at this point, I just moved in to my new home so not alot of time to do all the reno's in the cave. :-(

So, I opted to do as much wiring I could before it hit -38'C like it did last week just in time for that freaking Liftmaster 3900!! :-/

Which I got 80% done and working, just have to clean up all the silly wires and staple it all down nicely. Have to make time to verify if that tension monitor is giving me grief or something else, who knows??

Back on topic . . Will you be doing your dry wall veritcally, or horizontally?? I know its being farmed out, but if you have a preference I would like to read what your thoughts are as I have some preference only because my walls are 10' and I can buy the stuff in 10' feet sheets, which is a no brainer in terms of which way to go.

You have 12' feet ??? That's simply amazing, if I had that extra head room I would be using all the extra over head for storage which I am doing in mine. Have to use all that free space well, and keep the floor clean you know!! LOL

Teken . . .
 

Stargeezer

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Jan 12, 2009
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Central Nevada, USA
Actually, it's De Quervain's tenosynovitis. Sounds horrible. Painful but not serious though.______

....last summer I was suffering from De Quervain's too. Then while building a redwood fence, I stupidly slide my hand along a rail reaching for a fastener and impailed my forearm/wrist with a 3-inch long splinter that lodged deep under the skin. To make matters worse-we had thoroughly coated the redwood with boiled linseed oil. So I had redwood and a toxic oil embedded in my arm. I was wearing short gloves that did not cover the wrist. No way to get it out (we tried) so made an appointment with a specailist.

A few days later I visited the hand sugeon & while they put me under to carve the splinter out-they also did the De Quervain's relief surgery; since it was all on the same hand. My hand was useless for a few weeks but now all is well again-and the De Quervain's tendonitis is gone. I recommend wearing gloves with wrist cuffs/guards now :)
 

PCO6

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Newmarket, Ontario
I'll definitely be putting a vapour barrier on the ceiling. With our extreme Manitoba weather I don't want to take a chance on moisture and rot. I hope to live here a long time.
Thanks ... I figured that would be the best way too. I've been using a small construction heater to date and it's been OK. I've been looking at the Dayton G73 electric heater and will probably upgrade to that when I finish the insulation.
 

Keep

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Oshawa, Ontario
Wow thats cold. Any reason that alot of you that live in the real cold climates wait till its the worse time of the year to insulate your shops????

lol...its because we only get a couple weeks of warm weather!! Its too nice to be installing insulation, its the only time we get to open the doors :D
 
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jvitez

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Thanks ... I figured that would be the best way too. I've been using a small construction heater to date and it's been OK. I've been looking at the Dayton G73 electric heater and will probably upgrade to that when I finish the insulation.

Check out Ouellet heaters. Made in Canada, well Quebec anyway :) I've seen them here at an electrical supply house. They look well made.

http://www.ouellet.com/
 
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