Insulation and pegboard... will this be a problem?

[Brad54]

I'm a HUGE fan of using white-faced pegboard for the wall covering in my shop.

My dad is down helping me get my shop organized/finished, including the 10x10 office. The office was framed and the electrical wires run when he got here. It's in the corner of the building, and has two outside walls. I had to work today, so he was on his own out there, doing a few small jobs I gave him that he could do while I wasn't around, etc.

The two walls that protrude into the shop will have pegboard on them.

The shop is unheated currently. I will be moving my home office into the shop office to work (self-employed writer, so I'll be out there every day).

I figured insulation on the outside walls is mandatory. The walls inside the office would be sheetrock, while the walls in the shop will be pegboard. He and I had some discussions last night about insulating the shop-side walls. Obviously, it'll help, but in the big picture, the room is 10x10, and with the heater and A/C unit I have, I didn't feel it was a big deal to leave those walls uninsulated. He disagreed and kept making his pitch, but I told him I had thought it over long ago, and decided not to insulate them.

I remembered this evening that part of the reason I don't want them insulated is because I have just enough R-19 insulation to finish the main shop walls, and will have to buy more to do the office walls.

So I get home from work tonight, and the office is fully insulated. I now have to buy more insulation (and money right now is tighter than a frog's ***).

But another problem I'm seeing is that he put the paper-side of the insulation in the office, while the open fiberglass bat is shop-side, and will be covered with pegboard.
I'm concerned about three things: Is the yellow insulation going to pull through the pegboard's holes when I install and remove hooks and hangers? Is this going to make the pegboard more dirty--will shop dust accumulate in the fiberglass and constantly make the pegboard dusty looking (I'm not a neat freak, but it seems to me that pegboard backed on paper is going to stay cleaner than pegboard backed on fiberglass). Finally, does anyone think the yellow fiberglass is going to be visible through the white pegboard?

I know my dad's helping me out, and I should be grateful, but I'm thinking this is about the same as him asking me to help paint a room at his house, and then while he's not there I decide a different color would be more suitable.

If it won't pull through and it won't show through, I guess I let it slide, though I do have to spend money for more insulation that I wouldn't have. At least he didn't insulate the ceiling like he wanted...

-Brad

 

[Crusty Nut]

Whats done is done and in the long run, I think it was the right choice. Just a computer running will keep a small room like that surprisingly warm. I think I would hang some drywall behind the pegboard. I know money is tight, but 1/4" drywall is cheap and will prevent all of the pegboard problems I agree with you about. 2 10 foot walls will cover fast for not much money.

 

[Falcon67]

What he said. A few sheets of 1/4 rock and some 1x2s to space the pegboard off the rock. It'll protect the insulation from contamination.

 

[Brad54]

Whats done is done and in the long run, I think it was the right choice. Just a computer running will keep a small room like that surprisingly warm. I think I would hang some drywall behind the pegboard. I know money is tight, but 1/4" drywall is cheap and will prevent all of the pegboard problems I agree with you about. 2 10 foot walls will cover fast for not much money.

Yeah, we had the "the computer, TV and radio will keep the room pretty warm" discussion, and he wasn't buying it. (though they keep my current office really warm).

The problem is that the shop walls are 12-foot tall, and I'm running pegboard down from the ceiling to 4-feet off the floor, skirting the bottom four feet of the shop with corrugated metal siding.
I made the office wall studs 7 feet, so the office ceiling is a little short, but it gives me a walk-around storage loft above the office. I'll only be sitting in the office anyway. I've already put the pegboard on one of the outside walls, and part of the other. I'd have to completely re-do that, plus the cost/expense of hanging the new sheetrock behind it, and the strips to stand the pegboard off the drywall. Lots of extra hassle.

This is not going to be an easy week, I suspect...

-Brad

 

[Torque1st]

Don't worry about the fiberglass showing thru the holes. It will be dark back there. If any hook draws out a tuft of FG just poke it back in or tear it off while the hook is in the hole. He put the insulation on correctly with the paper towards the inside of the office. Don't worry about the dirt. I would insulate the office ceiling also. Every little bit helps. The modern TV's, monitors and office equipment are getting more energy efficient all the time although the computer's power demands are increasing. An uninsulated room would have the whole shop as a heat sink. With an insulated office you can AC or heat it without having to heat and cool the entire shop. In other words you can have the office at 70F with the shop at 40F while outside it is 10F. Leave a portion of the outside walls uninsulated and skip the sheetrock on that area if $$ are tight at the moment.

BTW- It is worse to punch holes in the vapor barrier than it is to punch a hole in the FG. Some cardboard or house wrap applied with a spacer is recommended under pegboard.

To me it sounds like your dad knows what he is doing and is trying to steer you right. I would apologize to him for doubting him.

 

[Brad54]

To me it sounds like your dad knows what he is doing and is trying to steer you right. I would apologize to him for doubting him.

Actually, no. He has no experience framing, insulating, and he's heavily steered me toward paneling in the office and a drop-ceiling (with my 7-foot wall studs) instead of sheetrock, because he doesn't know how to hang sheetrock. He just generally thinks that what I'm doing is wrong.
Last time he was here, he helped me run the wires along one of the other walls, and flipped out when I put three outlets 3-feet down from the ceiling. I put them up there for a clock, a drop light on real, and maybe a fan. Before getting my explanation, he made up his mind that the outlets were "for a large-screen TV so you can be a bigshot for all your friends and have a big TV in your shop." WTF?!

If anyone would like a tip, buy stock in Jim Beam. Sales are about to go up considerably.

-Brad

 

[Torque1st]

Personally I don't blame him about the paneling. I HATE sheetrock.

 

[Brad54]

Personally I don't blame him about the paneling. I HATE sheetrock.

My original plan was white, with black bead board and a simple red painted chair rail... all my shop equipment is black and red, in a white shop. It'd also look good with the couple of pics and prints I've got in black frames. Sort of a low-buck race shop feel (since I write for car magazines).

I've never done sheetrock either, but I'm thinking it can't be that HARD, just unpleasant. For a 10x10 room, I'm willing to **** it up. Plus, it's great experience, since I've got a whole large basement I'd like to finish as well. This will be good practice.

-Brad

 

[nissan_crawler]

I'm with dad. Throw up some 1/4" sheetrock. First off, you don't even have to mud/tape it, so it will go damn quick. Even if you do mud/tape it, it doesn't have to be smooth, so again, no biggy.

Second, if you put the pegboard right against the studs, you're limiting yourself on where you can hang things. standing it out with a few spacers will leave you much more area on the board to work with. I used 1/2" pex pipe as spacers behind mine, just liquid nailed it to the pegboard, then ran a screw with a washer through that hole.

 

[Torque1st]

I have done a fair amount of sheetrock but only in my own home. I have also seen the pros do it and I am nowhere near that good. I had a pro do it the last time.

 

[z28snksknr]

Actually, no. He has no experience framing, insulating, and he's heavily steered me toward paneling in the office and a drop-ceiling (with my 7-foot wall studs) instead of sheetrock, because he doesn't know how to hang sheetrock. He just generally thinks that what I'm doing is wrong.
Last time he was here, he helped me run the wires along one of the other walls, and flipped out when I put three outlets 3-feet down from the ceiling. I put them up there for a clock, a drop light on real, and maybe a fan. Before getting my explanation, he made up his mind that the outlets were "for a large-screen TV so you can be a bigshot for all your friends and have a big TV in your shop." WTF?!

If anyone would like a tip, buy stock in Jim Beam. Sales are about to go up considerably.

-Brad

I think we have the same father......

My dad has never done any house renovation or construction, but always thinks I am wrong and has his own way of doing things that will be done regardless of how hard I try to convince him.

In this case however, drywall hating aside, I agree that the space should be insulated if you are planning to occupy it for extended periods of time. A 65°F office can feel cold if all you are doing it sitting at a computer for 9 hours.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I think your father is a little old school and doesn't realize that you want more than a garage. It sounds like you want more of a man cave/garage.

It's all good, appreciate the time spent with Pops and try to explain to him what you are using the area for. If that still doesn't work, just do the work yourself, and don't ask for his help. If he offers, just politely decline and use the time to BBQ with him or sip some Jim Beam.

The insulation in the office walls were the right choice, they will also offer some noise dampning between the shop and office. It's money well spent and you'll realize it down the road. Just sheet the garage walls and shim the pegboard out a little.

 

[JaxChevy]

If you don't insulate your office ceiling, doing your walls is a waste of time - most of your heat loss is straight up. If you don't want to sheetrock behind your pegboard, maybe you could run a sheet of vapor barrier / housewrap behind it. Just leave it a little slack between studs so you don't puncture it with the pegs.

T

 

[kbs2244]

I would go with a layer of some kind of paper, even just butcher paper, to keep the insulation dust contained.
Then 1x2s on the studs before you put up the peg board.
That will give you some room behind so you don’t poke holes in the paper.

 

[Mattlt]

What if you used those foam spacer things that are normally used above attic insulation to keep air moving between the soffit vents and the ridge vents?

 

[hammlm]

Personally, I can't stand peg board, I prefer stuff behind cabinet doors, so I'm not chiming in on that part.

On the dad part, (which I do realize you weren't soliciting any input on) I'd only reccomend that you let him keep on being "dad" and find a way to enjoy it --- even though it bugs you.

My dad and I built my addition which netted me a 1280 sf garage. We had many discussions and disagreements just like you write about here on previous projects and during the addition project.

He did things like frame a door slightly off center, hang two closet bi-folds upside down, misplaced some conduits (under the slab), cut into my water main during excavation -- resulting in a "manhole" installation in my garage.... All of this stuff bugged me. Hell, it pissed me off -- I'll admit it. He passed away when he fell off a roof about two weeks after we got the CO to move in.

Of all the memories I have of Dad over 38 years, those of us working together, on this project are most definitely my fondest. My wife and I look at the doors, and all the other little "dad-isms" in our addition and we laugh. They are all reminders of how lucky I was to be able to do that project with him. I just wish he was around to hang out with me in the garage now that it's all done (well, you know -- is it ever done?)

Enjoy him now for what he is. I'd bet you'll remember this project very fondly. And, for what it's worth, Jim Beam was part of my day-to-day answer too! I prefer the yellow labeled rye.

 

[OccupantRJ]

What hammin says, plus 20! Give your dad a big hug and tell him you love him, before it's too late. It's one of the most important things I ever did in my life, as my dad died a week later. All that other stuff is just material things from Lowes. Besides, I think he was right in insulating the room, as it will need it to be used on a regular basis.

 

[tcianci]

#1, respect dad for who he is if you can't do it for what he knows
Don't worry too much about any fiberglass coming out of the pegboard holes, I doubt that you will be plugging things in and out of it daily. The insulation in the office walls is a great thing, but be sure to plan on the ceiling insulation at some point as most of your heat loss is up. Once you have the ceiling insulated, you will have completed the envelope and your computer and monitor will contribute to your total heat requirements. We once had a basement office about 10x 12 and it had 2 computers. With the door closed that room would stay over 70 degrees all winter.
Conquer drywall phobia! It's cheap and easy to do...get a book, go online, get some and LEARN. You screw it up, you tape it and mud it, sand it and paint it. The very basic approach to drywall is FIGURE and FINISH. The figure is the "plane" you are trying to project from one panel to the next when you tape a joint. Work on that without regard to finish, which is the actual surface finish of the mud no matter what shape it is. If you try to get them both at the same time, you will have nothing but trouble. Use mesh tape, it is easier for beginners and remember it is ALWAYS easier to add mud than to take it off. When you get good with it, you can move from bucket mud to bag mud and use a formulation with a fast setting time. This will allow you to hit your joints and corner beads fast and then come back over them with another pass of mud in less than an hour. And since you aren't putting on too much mud in any of your passes, there won't be any sanding till the end. Give it a shot!

 

[dwilliams35]

I HATE pegboard: I think the only reason I'd ever use it was if I was building a gun room where I figured on a lot of accidental discharges that I needed to camoflage.

Meanwhile, ever think about just doing insulating, some vapor barrier, then OSB, then a spacer to the pegboard? You could run screws all the way through the OSB that way and actually hold something that the pegboard won't...

 

[Brad54]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I'm a writer and photographer by profession. I've loved hot rods since I was a kid, and I love hunting. Dad has an engineering degree, and got a masters in Finance, doesn't "get" the whole hot rod thing, and doesn't get hunting, either. When I told him in college my goal was to work for a car magazine, he said "You're setting yourself up to fail." When I was editor of Mopar Muscle magazine, he said "Now that you've got this out of your system, you should go to work for a "real" company like Chrysler or Chevrolet--you'd still be around cars." Sigh....

The fact that my daily driver is a rough-looking '62 Suburban, and I just bought my wife a '61 Corvair station wagon for her daily, drives my parents nuts. The fact that I'm 39 and my wife is 42 oddly never seems to occur to them.

So, back to the project at hand, with "Engineer/Accountant Dad" and "Artist/writer Son":

What's done is done with the insulation. I just don't see that there will be that much heat loss going through a layer of sheetrock, the dead space of the floor joists, and then the 3/4-inch plywood decking above that. Not in a 10x10 room that is going to have a computer running at all times, and a radio or a TV running, and then a small heater. We live in Georgia, so it's not like I'm fighting 10-below weather.

As for pegboard in the shop: I'm generous with the number of fasteners that I used to screw it to the wall studs. I've got one section with a pair of aluminum intakes, two aluminum bell housings, a Caddy and a 2x4 Buick air cleaner, and a few other things hanging from it. I'm not worried about anything pulling out, or the paneling dying. Between signs, parts and tools, the pegboard is very functional. It reflects light, doesn't bounce as much sound back, and always gives me a place to hang something. Plus, it's done as soon as it's up--no additional finish work.

The purpose of my garage is to make it a more effective place for me to work on vehicles for magazine stories (I'm full-time freelance writing for car mags). It needs to be functional, meaning I can actually work out there. But someone here was right--It does also need to have a certain amount of "man cave" to it.

The whole shop is 32x40, with a 10x10 office in the front corner. I've got the Suburban, the Corvair, a '57 Chevy gasser, a '54 Buick, a '56 Chevy, and a '73 Duster... two of them run, but they all need work. The Duster goes in the house garage for it's restoration, the gasser, the '56 and the '54 Buick are in the shop. The Buick is close to running. But if I have a decent work area in the shop, things will happen a lot more quickly. It's just that I haven't had the time to finish the shop, so Dad was going to come down and help.

So far, he's insulated some stuff I didn't want insulated, I'll need to buy insulation to replace that, and he tipped over a pair or 322 Nailhead heads, a 322 Nailhead crank, and a cherry 409 Chevy crank, because he was trying to get the insulation out from where I was storing it, to insulate the walls I told him I didn't want insulated. And was mad at me because he "almost broke my legs because of your old parts."

I wonder if he's read any Edgar Allen Poe stories... seems I remember some stories that involved walls and flooring...

-Brad

 

[z28snksknr]

Just so you feel that you aren't alone, my dad was helping me put up florescent fixtures in my drop ceiling in the basement. He slipped while holding the light up, jostled the grid, and my whole drop ceiling came crashing down. He got pissed off, told me "this house is ****" and things like "why don't you do things the right way", etc. before he stormed off to Lowes to buy new supports for the drop ceiling.

Out of all the people I could call on to help me, my dad is the one that will show up every time and regardless of the outcome, I am grateful for having him around to add to the memories.

 

[Brad54]

Today he told me how to hammer a nail into a piece of wood. No, I'm not kidding.

-Brad

 

[Torque1st]

Maybe he noticed you doing it wrong???

It sounds like you have some real issues with your father. Maybe some therapy would help.

 

[sunaar]

usually 1/4 in sheetrock is more expensive than 1/2 inch, and paneling can be more expensive than that

 

[ProGun3400]

This could be a case of sweet revenge. He's probably getting back at you for the hell you put him through as a kid. Hell, tell him if he screws up again, you'll dock his pay or worse-fire him.

 

[mustangmccance]

this is a picture of my wall where I put the white pegboard over insulation. the other side of this wall is my wood shop area and I put the vapor barrier side up in there because I want to be able to just heat the small shop in the winter if I want. I have had the pegboard up for a year now with no problems

 

[Brad54]

this is a picture of my wall where I put the white pegboard over insulation. the other side of this wall is my wood shop area and I put the vapor barrier side up in there because I want to be able to just heat the small shop in the winter if I want. I have had the pegboard up for a year now with no problems

I'll more than likely end up taking down three sheets of pegboard (and all the stuff on it, including a huge American flag) and hang some heavy plastic behind it, then put everything back up.

-Brad

 

[Brad54]

Maybe he noticed you doing it wrong???

It sounds like you have some real issues with your father. Maybe some therapy would help.

Yeah, therapy WOULD be a good idea! Though Dr. James Beam does a pretty good job.

I'm 40, he's 61. I've been a tech editor for car magazines for over a decade, and have 7 vintage vehicles, and a shop full of equipment that he's not even sure what it is, let alone how to use it. I've done a lot of DIY improvement projects in the shop, in the yard and in the house. He hasn't changed his own oil since I was 14.

I told him today that we'd get along a lot better if he'd treat me more like his friend than a child. "As a parent, you don't ever want to be your child's friend... not ever. One day maybe you'll realize that." I said I didn't want to be his "friend," but it'd be nice if he treated me with the same respect he treats his friends. (He constantly tell me that when I tell him about the fun father/son stuff I do with my 14 year old. Last time I got the "You're his parent, not his friend" speech was when I told him I took Andrew camping for opening weekend of deer season). There's a decided lack of basic respect here.

Sorry... didn't mean to pull up a couch and unload. I love working in the garage and doing DIY projects (as everyone on this board does), and have been looking forward to getting my shop useable for months and months, but its turning into a f'ing nightmare.

-Brad

 

[Torque1st]

Stay away from Dr Beam... It looks like you have opened up a dialog with him and that is good. I am 56 and my father is 85. I am an Engineer and he is a pharmacist and for the most part does not know a screwdriver from a wrench. He has "strange" ideas about things because he never has had any training in the engineering or building trades. He always has advice but I just listen and agree -then do what I have to do. Sometimes his advice even helps. His heart is in the right place and I love him. I just accept him for who and what he is.

 

[GDA]

I did top half of my garage in pegboard. Utilized three 1x3s as spacers between the insulation/studs and the pegboard. I hung the pegboard onto the 1x3s with hardiscrews. It will be super easy to unistall if I later want to drywall the tophalf that way.

 

[mustangmccance]

I'll more than likely end up taking down three sheets of pegboard (and all the stuff on it, including a huge American flag) and hang some heavy plastic behind it, then put everything back up.

-Brad

that is certainly an option, of course, since your mostly just worried about dust and the insulation pulling through, you could just leave it for the time being and if it becomes an issue then take it down and put up the plastic. its not like a little dust wont just clean off with an air gun IF it is bothersome. as I see it there is no rush to tear it off since there will be no permanent damage done by leaving it.

of course if it is just coming down to a battle of wills then logic really doesn't enter into it very much.

 

[Brad54]

that is certainly an option, of course, since your mostly just worried about dust and the insulation pulling through, you could just leave it for the time being and if it becomes an issue then take it down and put up the plastic. its not like a little dust wont just clean off with an air gun IF it is bothersome. as I see it there is no rush to tear it off since there will be no permanent damage done by leaving it.

of course if it is just coming down to a battle of wills then logic really doesn't enter into it very much.

Yeah, you're right... I am OCD'ing a little about it. I think you're right about leaving it until/if it becomes an issue.


-Brad

 

[mustangmccance]

been there done that. good luck with your project.

 

[wrigh003]

Knocking over a bunch of "old parts" (that could be hard to find, expensive, delicate, or all three) and then ******* and moaning about "boohoo, almost broke my legs..." would get my dad a ticket into the house to watch sports on TV or something, but not before I asked him "Need a band aid for your booboo, Nancy?"

Then dad would tell me to STFU, and we'd have a laugh.

My dad's 62 (I'm 30), and if I involve him in anything like what you're doing, he'd either have a better way, a faster way, or a smarter way- even though he (like your dad) hasn't DIY'd anything in years, whereas I am currently rebuilding my old house from the inside out- so I feel your pain. It can be tough to work with Dad (in general)- sounds to me like maybe yours doesn't get what you're going for, and/or just doesn't really understand what you're about- but years from now you'll look at your office and think "dad helped me do this" whether because it's done the right way, or the dad way. Try not to be too hard on him, he's the only dad you get.

I fully intend to piss my two boys off a whole bunch in about 25 years.

 

[chadman117]

I would skip the pegboard and use slatwall instead. It looks MUCH nicer and holds up a lot better than pegboard.