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insulation-complete newb- need help

ewils35

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May 5, 2011
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218
Location
Metro Detroit Area
well this is my first home and i have a 2 1/2 car garage. looking at insulating the roof and closing that in. what are the recommended sizes for the fiberglass rolls? or would it be cheaper to do the spray foam and what kind of equipment would i need for that? i use my garage alot and im going on 3 years at living in this house and would like to start working on that to get it ready for next winter
 
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sachapan

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Jul 23, 2009
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Ontario, Canada
Welcome to the fun and sometimes insanity.

If the roof structure is exposed, you have a few options.

On my garage, the roof is made of trusses. I installed rock wool insulation (won't mold or harbor rodents and is fire resistant) between each truss. You'll need to measure the distance between each one and buy insulation the matching width. For depth, the deeper the better the insulation value. You will want to ensure that an air space is left for the soffits to allow air flow, i.e. don't tuck the insulation right to the roof line where the walls come up. Since you are closing in the garage ceiling by adding the insulation, you will also want to review the situation with roof ventilation. If there are no roof vents, you will want to add one/some. It is important for an insulated space to "breath." With rock wool or fiberglass insulation, you will want to install a vapor barrier beneath the insulation. Where vapor barrier sheets overlap, tape the joints to ensure an air tight seal. In my area, the correct tape is usually sold as Tuck Tape (not Duck or Duct Tape). The next step is to install the ceiling.

Spray foam is another option. It is usually more expensive to have done. There are kits for DIY. The techniques for spraying are different to batt insulation since you need a backer to spray against. In some applications, this may be directly to the underside of the roof sheathing. Spray foam is insulation and vapor barrier in one. The same principle for efficiency applies to spray foam, the thicker the higher the insulation value, usually expressed as the R value.




well this is my first home and i have a 2 1/2 car garage. looking at insulating the roof and closing that in. what are the recommended sizes for the fiberglass rolls? or would it be cheaper to do the spray foam and what kind of equipment would i need for that? i use my garage alot and im going on 3 years at living in this house and would like to start working on that to get it ready for next winter
 
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ewils35

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May 5, 2011
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Metro Detroit Area
not yet. the walls are just cinderblock right now. that will be the next project when it warms up. gotta do some joint repairs
 
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ewils35

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May 5, 2011
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Metro Detroit Area
ok ill be out there sometime today to organize it. i neglected the garage all spring/summer/fall. and now i need to get back to doing things in it to get ready for new projects.
 

Al Bundy

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Aug 1, 2011
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2,026
Location
Upstate NY
Welcome to the fun and sometimes insanity.

If the roof structure is exposed, you have a few options.

On my garage, the roof is made of trusses. I installed rock wool insulation (won't mold or harbor rodents and is fire resistant) between each truss. You'll need to measure the distance between each one and buy insulation the matching width. For depth, the deeper the better the insulation value. You will want to ensure that an air space is left for the soffits to allow air flow, i.e. don't tuck the insulation right to the roof line where the walls come up. Since you are closing in the garage ceiling by adding the insulation, you will also want to review the situation with roof ventilation. If there are no roof vents, you will want to add one/some. It is important for an insulated space to "breath." With rock wool or fiberglass insulation, you will want to install a vapor barrier beneath the insulation. Where vapor barrier sheets overlap, tape the joints to ensure an air tight seal. In my area, the correct tape is usually sold as Tuck Tape (not Duck or Duct Tape). The next step is to install the ceiling.

Spray foam is another option. It is usually more expensive to have done. There are kits for DIY. The techniques for spraying are different to batt insulation since you need a backer to spray against. In some applications, this may be directly to the underside of the roof sheathing. Spray foam is insulation and vapor barrier in one. The same principle for efficiency applies to spray foam, the thicker the higher the insulation value, usually expressed as the R value.

What he said. I just want to stress how important proper ventilation is though. If you don't have good air flow you'll have big problems with moisture.
 
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ewils35

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May 5, 2011
Messages
218
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Metro Detroit Area
heres what im dealing with..... this is my roof just 2x6 rafters peaking up dead center of the garage.


heres what ill be dealing with spring/summer when temps get warmer
1218111926.jpg


north wall crack:
1218111926a.jpg


west wall crack that goes 2 ways with i believe just one bad block that needs to get cut out and a new one in the spot:
1218111926b.jpg
 

DistantHorizon

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Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
34
I had to ask these exact same questions when I bought my house/shop. Your garage is very different than mine, so your solution will probably differ greatly from mine, but I learned a lot about insulation from the various responses people gave me. As a noob, I needed to learn about roof venting and condensation barriers.

These were somewhat helpful:
http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...D-102_Understanding Attic Ventilation_rev.pdf

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/published-articles/pa-crash-course-in-roof-venting

This is the link to the thread I started.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122613&highlight=how+do+i+insulate

There are a couple of good diagrams in posts #13 and #21. While you'll probably want to cut a couple of corners compared to what those diagrams show, reading and research will tell you what corners you can and can't cut.

Spray foam insulation generally seems like good stuff (and would allow for eliminating the vented roof), but I simply couldn't afford it.

Good luck with your project!
 
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L5wolvesf

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Northern AZ
Is placing f'glass insulation bats between the roof beams a good option? And w/ or w/o paper backing?

My garage is also block with a roof similiar looking to yours. I've been using the rafters as storage since they are open. if I put in a ceiling I loose storgae space.

Thank you,
L
 
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ewils35

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May 5, 2011
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Location
Metro Detroit Area
oh mines still is going to be open. im just going to put the insulation in between the rafters and close in the rafters that way like as you would putting drywall on a wall lol
 

justfishing

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Dec 18, 2011
Messages
2
what level of energy efficiency are you looking for? There are a couple of things about that install. For fiberglass insualtion to be efective is needs to be in an airtight enclosed box. The more air flow around the insualtion the lower level of effective r value. You will see some improvement but effective R value will be 1/2 to a 1/3 of the stated R value on the package.

When insulating the underside of a roof you have to be concerned with trapping moisture in the assembly. The tar paper and asphalt shingles create a vapor barrier on the outside. If you create a vapor barrier on the inside you will trap moisture and can have mold and structural issues.

One of the big things to know is that air sealing is as important,if not more so, than the insulation. Mold problems have risen due to higher insulation levels and a lack of attention to air sealing
 

Rich H.

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Nov 30, 2010
Messages
285
Location
SE Michigan
Hard to tell from the pics, but is that a hip roof?

Do all sides come to a peak in the middle like a pyramid?
That would be a hip roof.
 

L5wolvesf

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Northern AZ
what level of energy efficiency are you looking for? There are a couple of things about that install. For fiberglass insualtion to be efective is needs to be in an airtight enclosed box. The more air flow around the insualtion the lower level of effective r value. You will see some improvement but effective R value will be 1/2 to a 1/3 of the stated R value on the package.

When insulating the underside of a roof you have to be concerned with trapping moisture in the assembly. The tar paper and asphalt shingles create a vapor barrier on the outside. If you create a vapor barrier on the inside you will trap moisture and can have mold and structural issues.

One of the big things to know is that air sealing is as important,if not more so, than the insulation. Mold problems have risen due to higher insulation levels and a lack of attention to air sealing

I know I won’t have the most efficient setup, but I would like to keep in as much heat as I can with what I’ve got or can easily afford/install. I ahve a small wood stove (lots of Mesquite here) and a propane heater to get things starting to warm. The ceiling is open since the rafters are used for storage of large items (mostly auto body parts hung/draped over rafters).

Re air sealing the garage. To get it as tight as my house I would have to spend big, can’t afford that. The biggest leak is the drive-in door. It is a rolling barn-ish door hard to seal.

Re fiberglass needs to be in an airtight box and vapor barrier / mold. What if I use foam panels without a vapor barrier?

FWIW, I have a gable roof on my garage, the pictures are from the original poster of this thread.

BTW, if my posts here are considered a hijack I will start a new thread. It just seemed like he and I are asking the same thing.

Thank you,
L
 

dirttracker18

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Aug 10, 2009
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Slate River, ON
For fiberglass insualtion to be efective is needs to be in an airtight enclosed box.

I have never heard of such a thing but am open to an education.

Almost every attic I have seen has open insualtion that is not contained within a box. The top side is open to the attic area.

Either I do not understand what you are trying to say or you are incorrect.

For the two guys looking for info in here, others are correct as the air seal is more important. As for expense, it is nothing. Buy a roll of 6mil poly and staple it in place. Cheap and very effective. Even if your service doors leaks like a sieve do the rest as best as possible as now is the easy time to do it. you may one day replace that door and then wish you had sealed it all up better.

Use plastic boxes around al electrical and tuc tape them to your poly.
 

Highbeam

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Feb 15, 2011
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Location
Mt Rainier foothills, WA
I have never heard of such a thing but am open to an education.

Almost every attic I have seen has open insualtion that is not contained within a box. The top side is open to the attic area.

Either I do not understand what you are trying to say or you are incorrect.

For the two guys looking for info in here, others are correct as the air seal is more important. As for expense, it is nothing. Buy a roll of 6mil poly and staple it in place. Cheap and very effective. Even if your service doors leaks like a sieve do the rest as best as possible as now is the easy time to do it. you may one day replace that door and then wish you had sealed it all up better.

Use plastic boxes around al electrical and tuc tape them to your poly.

You're right dirt tracker, that is absolute bogus. Fiberglass does NOT need to be in some sort of box to provide the R-value.
 

98riv

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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
40
As said above, fiberglass doesn't need to be in an air tight enclosure. But it does lose r-value when air passes through it. It will do nothing to stop the drafts. So make sure you seal any penetrations with spray foam before laying the fiberglass and it will do its job.
 
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