Insulation costs, seem rather high

[haugy]

As I'm at this point in my shop, you'll see my ******* posting in here alot.

I was pricing out some insulation for my 30x40x14'. To do the walls alone will be close to $5000. 2x6 at 16" centers. R-19.

Does this seem normal? Or crackhead high? At this cost range I could probably step up to Foam for not that much more.

I must be doing something wrong. Where are yall getting your insulation from?

 

[fflintstone]

figuring a normal sized door, if you foamed that it would be about 8k to do the full 6" but you would be at an r30.(walls only) I dont know what fiberglass costs these days but 5k sounds high to me. check the box stores for sales. depending on your door size figure out the sq footage just like doing an attic.

 

[ADaughen]

I just checked Lowes online. Local prices for me are in the $6700 range figuring on 16800 sq ft... $35.58/87.18 sq ft or $.40/sq ft.


Seems it is quite a bit higher than the R13 I purchased last year $8/40sq ft.

Maybe foam and R13 to get to your R rating?

 

[Rosco]

Insulation prices seem to have almost doubled at Lowes here in GA.

 

[haugy]

****, I just thought of why. With all the flooding we had in the spring (Nashville), almost every house that had flooding needs new insulation. It's being replaced everywhere. That's why I bet prices are so much higher.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

If your considering batts vs foam, do lots of reading, its similar to a bb gun and .45 cal. Both projectiles,....but way different.

Ive got a 4 year old, tin sided 1500 sq ft shop, 12 ft ceilings, insulated with R19 batts, sheet rocked and the wind just blows through it, its always cold and always hot. I had a 6" tall snow drift in there last winter that didnt melt for a couple days, and the garage is heated. If the wind is blowing, doesn't seem to matter much what you set the thermostat at. If you doing some reading, you will find R value is only attained in perfectly controlled circumstances (rarely your circumstances).

Foam on the other hand, stops air infiltration, which can make all the difference in the world. So to exaggerate to make a point, an R-13 open cell foam wall, could insulate better than an R-50 batt wall, when you factor in air infiltration. Or if your fiberglass batts get "wet" from condensation, their R-Value can drop to zero. Some would say that batts are not they way to go.

I just got quotes to spray foam my house ($7500 for 2400 sqft), and I'm also spraying fire retardant foam on the basement ceiling, and open cell foam throughout the entire house. Ive got it stripped to the studs at the moment. Its the only way to rock and roll. I plan on doing the shop next year. Its cost prohibitive, but I think it will pay for itself in about 3 years. My new house was built in 1904, with ship-lap siding, the house currently breathes like a race horse, when I get done super-insulating it, I should have air quality problems and my gas bill a fifth of what it use to be.

Oh, it also really slows down insects and rodents in the house.... another benefit.

 

[GarageEnvy]

For reference a month ago I had my 34'x53' with 9' walls done for $1,500. It was way cheaper to have a pro do it than buy the material from Lowe's ($2,400). This was R-13 in walls and R-38 in the ceiling. All batts plus they sealed all wire openings, double stud seams, doorways and sills. I didn't even price out the foam sealant or caulking. Of course, this is California and work is slow so not much demand for labor and materials.

 

[nate379]

If you put fiberglass insulation up without a vapor barrier it will do what you describe.

The foam stuff is all nice and good, but have fun if you need to get to something in the wall later on. At least with reg insulation you can pull it out or move it out of the way.

If your considering batts vs foam, do lots of reading, its similar to a bb gun and .45 cal. Both projectiles,....but way different.

Ive got a 4 year old, tin sided 1500 sq ft shop, 12 ft ceilings, insulated with R19 batts, sheet rocked and the wind just blows through it, its always cold and always hot. I had a 6" tall snow drift in there last winter that didnt melt for a couple days, and the garage is heated. If the wind is blowing, doesn't seem to matter much what you set the thermostat at. If you doing some reading, you will find R value is only attained in perfectly controlled circumstances (rarely your circumstances).
.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

If you put fiberglass insulation up without a vapor barrier it will do what you describe.

The foam stuff is all nice and good, but have fun if you need to get to something in the wall later on. At least with reg insulation you can pull it out or move it out of the way.

Tiny down side, looking at the large up side. My shop has a house wrap around it, and vis-queen on the inside, still breathes like crazy.

As far as not adding anything post spray, I'm well aware, the house is getting 100% new mechanicals/electrical, putting in two new finances, one up and one down, and two new A/Cs, and I'm running a 2" conduit from the basement to the attic in the event I need to retro anything. I'm pulling out all the stops, wont say money is no object, but friends and family think I'm nuts. The only thing I'm keeping is the foundation, vertical studs, and the roof deck, everything else is going/gone.

I'm also double wiring everything as far as total receptacles/lighting, putting in 20amp circuits, 12 ga instead of 14, basically overbuilding the snot out of it it. Ive put allot of thought into it, and a boat load of money... I plan on being there for at least 20 years, and everything Im doing, Im doing with materials that will carry it that far without having to re-do much if anything.

Id like to be able to heat it with corn only, when Im done. Ive got enough ground to grow my own corn to heat the house. I needs to be tight and fiberglass wont even get me close to where I need to be. Im also sitting right under the jet stream, as verified by the several hundred 400' tall wind mills all around me. (yes its windy here all the time).

 

[nate379]

I'm not sure what to tell you but something is not right.

My house is reg insulation, R21 walls, R45 ceiling and it will hold heat for a long time. It's sealed well enough that if I close the intake air damper with the dryer running it's hard to close the front door. (yes intake air as in a controlled "leak" to supply air for the bath fans and dryer)

Winter means wind here too. 65-70mph winds are not uncommon at all.

Last power outage I remember left me without the boiler for 1.5 days and the house only dropped to 63* from 68*. It was -10 to -15* outside, something like -50* if you figure in the wind.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Tiny down side, looking at the large up side. My shop has a house wrap around it, and vis-queen on the inside, still breathes like crazy.

As far as not adding anything post spray, I'm well aware, the house is getting 100% new mechanicals/electrical, putting in two new finances, one up and one down, and two new A/Cs, and I'm running a 2" conduit from the basement to the attic in the event I need to retro anything. I'm pulling out all the stops, wont say money is no object, but friends and family think I'm nuts. The only thing I'm keeping is the foundation, vertical studs, and the roof deck, everything else is going/gone.

I'm also double wiring everything as far as total receptacles/lighting, putting in 20amp circuits, 12 ga instead of 14, basically overbuilding the snot out of it it. Ive put allot of thought into it, and a boat load of money... I plan on being there for at least 20 years, and everything Im doing, Im doing with materials that will carry it that far without having to re-do much if anything.

Id like to be able to heat it with corn only, when Im done. Ive got enough ground to grow my own corn to heat the house. I needs to be tight and fiberglass wont even get me close to where I need to be. Im also sitting right under the jet stream, as verified by the several hundred 400' tall wind mills all around me. (yes its windy here all the time).

Run 2 0r 3, "2 conduits from basement to attic, 1 for 120/240, 1 for any future low voltage, remember you cannot mix low voltage with line voltage. My argument for 3 conduits is if you ever need to run additional Romex (if its allowed in your jurisdiction in the land of corruption) you have to figure in derating in that conduit, additional conduits allow you to obviously run more future wiring.

Finally, make sure you fire plug both ends of the conduits. If a attic fire should start and the ends are not sealed, you'll have one hell of a air fed fire thru those conduits (chimney effect) before you'll even know your attic is a burning. Most jurisdictions don't require this step, but simply just stuff the pipe with some batts insulation and tape both ends with electrical tape. Even if you run wires in the pipes in the future make sure that the void is always air sealed.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Run 2 0r 3, "2 conduits from basement to attic, 1 for 120/240, 1 for any future low voltage, remember you cannot mix low voltage with line voltage. My argument for 3 conduits is if you ever need to run additional Romex (if its allowed in your jurisdiction in the land of corruption) you have to figure in derating in that conduit, additional conduits allow you to obviously run more future wiring.

Finally, make sure you fire plug both ends of the conduits. If a attic fire should start and the ends are not sealed, you'll have one hell of a air fed fire thru those conduits (chimney effect) before you'll even know your attic is a burning. Most jurisdictions don't require this step, but simply just stuff the pipe with some batts insulation and tape both ends with electrical tape. Even if you run wires in the pipes in the future make sure that the void is always air sealed.

Excellent points, well taken, Ive got a case of Fire Caulk sitting there,,,,... thanks for the ideas !

 

[ixlr8]

BK- Is there a reason you are using open cell foam rather than closed cell foam? The closed cell will give you vapor barrier as well that the open cell foam won't. At least that is how it was explained to me.

 

[38Chevy454]

For reference a month ago I had my 34'x53' with 9' walls done for $1,500. It was way cheaper to have a pro do it than buy the material from Lowe's ($2,400). This was R-13 in walls and R-38 in the ceiling. All batts plus they sealed all wire openings, double stud seams, doorways and sills. I didn't even price out the foam sealant or caulking. Of course, this is California and work is slow so not much demand for labor and materials.

Similar experience here, I had my 26x48 with 12 ft walls done for $1334. This was fiberglass batts using R-19 walls and R-38 ceiling. Installed price was cheaper than I could buy the raw materials for.

 

[ADaughen]

It is odd both 38Chevy454 and GarageEnvy had such good prices on insulation.

A crew wanted to blow in new attic cat insulation into my attic. It would have cost them 4x the cost of the materials. I had sticker shock when they wanted to blow 6" of insulation at a "great manufacturer discount" for $1600. "Don't worry, it is all deductible on your taxes". - Not if I am already maxed out on energy star deductions.

I am going to have one of my laid off friends put it up for a few notes.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

BK- Is there a reason you are using open cell foam rather than closed cell foam? The closed cell will give you vapor barrier as well that the open cell foam won't. At least that is how it was explained to me.

Absolutely, the rigid, is exactly that, rigid (they gave me samples to play with). I got bids from 3 established chicagoland contractors, all been in the biz for over 15 years, talked to at least 8 others, not as long in the biz and did not get bids from them. Anyhow, they all told me the same thing, the rigid is so rigid, that the bond to the vertical studs will "break" or crack as the house moves. And the house does move, significantly, horizontally, if you push on the walls, its moves. Ive re-nailed all the 3/4" ship-lap siding with 3.25" pasloade pnuematic, galvanized ring shank nails (also have glue on them), and added storm bracing, and have spent a boat load of money and time re-enforcing, replacing, and bracing.

So basically, you lose some of your air infiltration blocking with the rigid, albeit, it has a higher r-value, buts in negated in a stick frame envelope than can and will move. Also I have a two story house, sitting 4' out of the round, and I'm surrounded by thousands of acres of corn on some of the flattest ground in the nation... Its a F"in wind park most days..so I know the house is going to continue to move, and then there are the storms with 80mph gusts, that are common around here....

So yes, I would have preferred rigid, but it is not the best choice for my application, so I'm putting 2.25" polyiso foil faced sheets on the 3/4" ship-lap, which is around R13 to add to the open cell of around R11. Im hanging LP Smart Side 7/16" Siding on top of the rain curtain.

 

[Steevo]

WOW!
I had my 24x40x10' walls insulated, with 4mil plastic vapor barrier over the R-21 batts, all for $880 installed. It took the two guys less than 2 hours to do it. This price included two bales of batts for my bathroom walls that weren't up yet.

 

[trythis]

I had 2, 48 foot wide walls that are 15 feet tall, a laundry room, a bathroom done in blown cellulose for 1.6K. Its mold and bug proof, recycled, cant burn, and its glued to the drywall and studs.
It wont itch if I have to work in the walls either. I have foot think brick walls, so air blowing through is unlikely.
You might look into cellulose.

 

[GarageEnvy]

It is odd both 38Chevy454 and GarageEnvy had such good prices on insulation.

A crew wanted to blow in new attic cat insulation into my attic. It would have cost them 4x the cost of the materials. I had sticker shock when they wanted to blow 6" of insulation at a "great manufacturer discount" for $1600. "Don't worry, it is all deductible on your taxes". - Not if I am already maxed out on energy star deductions.

I am going to have one of my laid off friends put it up for a few notes.

Actually I was given the option to do "blown in" in the attic for $150 less. Given the installers recommendation for batts and the fact that I would have had to do two different days for drywall hanging I thought the additional $150 was worth it.

 

[haugy]

This should be interesting to see how it pans out. I talked with a company that does all kinds of insulation, foam, bats, blown, etc.

He had an idea I actually liked. He said we could do a thin layer of closed cell foam to close up the air flow in the shop and create a thin barrier along the walls. Since it's a pole barn, the airflow has been a concern. Then after I frame it up, he can come in with bats and put that in between the studs. According to him, this would be cheaper than doing a thick layer of foam.

He's coming by tomorrrow to give me some concrete numbers. I like this idea since I can seal up the air in the shop. And then get a good layer of insulation as well for an affordable price. Plus, being able to work behind the walls later if I need it, is nice.

 

[rlme36]

Here is my 2 cents. I was hanging the insulweb in my garage to try and reduce some of the costs to getting cellulose dense pak for my 2x6 walls and storage room above, 30x36 x 14'. Hung all the web, call back a couple of insulation guys to get new/revised bids. Didn't really save that much by doing the work myself. Although the guy that gave me the bid told me that all insulation prices went up by 20% as the pink people raised prices. Their effort to raise the bar for the entire market.

Anyway, cellouse also went up. I would neet 300 bags/squares of it and rent the proper machine (not the one at homedepot, but one that does dense packing). Cheapest price for good cellulose was $13 each, he said he could supply me at $10 at old pricing and do the work.

his orig quote $4600, new price $4000 after I hung all the insulweb material, which cost me $250. After i did the quick math, I couldn't do the work myself for cheaper than he was willing to do it to keep his crew busy.

The finished job is awesome and dead quiet inside, not to mention very cool in the hot days that CT has recently had. like I said my 2 cents, people are willing to deal, but you have to know the info.

rob

 

[ADaughen]

Actually I was given the option to do "blown in" in the attic for $150 less. Given the installers recommendation for batts and the fact that I would have had to do two different days for drywall hanging I thought the additional $150 was worth it.

I had not priced batts, but the blown in 6" extra to get me "up to code" for 1000 sq ft was ridiculous.

ETA: R-11 batts (smallest R-val I found) are ~$100 cheaper for the same coverage.

I'll pay someone a reasonable price to do something I don't want to do. But paying two people's weekly wages for a half day job... crazy.