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Insulation question

Notgrownup

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So I'm getting ready to wire, run air lines, insulate and then drywall my shop....I have questions about insulating..
1- is there a big difference between backed or unbacked R13 wall insulation...I know the paper lets you staple it to the studs but other than that?
2- do I need to put plastic before I drywall? I have wrapped the outside with wrap. And vinyl siding.
3- ceilings, attic is vented with soffits and ridge vent, there also, do I need to put plastic before I drywall or add some kind of boards or material to cover my ceiling. I am going to put air dams on the soffits area, not sure I am calling them the correct thing...Air baffles maybe

I do plan on later having some kind of mini split unit to cool the place and some times heat also....
 
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Justind97

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1 - unsure

2 & 3 - absolutely need it. It provides a moisture barrier between the drywall and the insulation. If you don't put it in, it can lead to mold.
 

indyjps

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I've always used backed in walls behind drywall, I honestly can't say why, it's how I was taught to do while working for a builder, I would think un backed may sag down the wall over time if not secured with staples.
you might consider blow in for the attic, if you buy enough bags the machine rental is free, and the overall cost is less.
the only time I use plastic in the walls is in basements, between the back of the stud wall and the foundation. I'm in IL, SC may be different.
 
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Rosco

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Based on your location do not put a vapor barrier on the inside. If you use faced insulation, cut some slits in so any moisture can escape.

I have researched this topic to death. Only fail safe method I have come up with is that insulation must breath on one side. Vapor barrier is commonly used on the side with the most moisture. Here in the south that is the exterior wall. In very cold climates it is usually interior walls due to types of heat.

If any other factors confuse me, i use unfaced bats or cellulose with no vapor barrier
 

DonPowers

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The faced portion of insulation is a vapor retarder. ASHRAE has an excellent paper on vapor barriers, unfortunately the file is to large to post here. Here is a link that will get you to the web page. In northern maine their recommendation is for a permeability of .1 to 1, plastic would be zero. I'm using an unfaced insulation with Tri-Flex, permeability of .6, as a vapor barrier.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=aaplw&p=ASHRAE+Understanding+Vapor+Barriers
 
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James-W

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Spray foam is a bit on the expensive side, but if it is within the budget I would certainly consider using it. It will seal the building and you won't need a vapor barrier.
 

BuickFarmer

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Based on your location do not put a vapor barrier on the inside. If you use faced insulation, cut some slits in so any moisture can escape.

I have researched this topic to death. Only fail safe method I have come up with is that insulation must breath on one side. Vapor barrier is commonly used on the side with the most moisture. Here in the south that is the exterior wall. In very cold climates it is usually interior walls due to types of heat.

If any other factors confuse me, i use unfaced bats or cellulose with no vapor barrier

For us in the south, never have I heard it explained so well in so few words Rosco. I share your "theory" and am using it in my new build. Preventing the flow of cold air from the outside, using thick insulation of wall cavities and no vapor barrier or retarder on the inside of wall so that as you say the insulation can breathe on one side. This ol' hippie puts it pretty well here > http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/do-i-need-vapor-retarder

He does away with all the charts and graphs and explains it in pretty easy to understand English

Q. Is there any reason I have to know the exact perm rating for the materials I use?

A. No, but it's sometimes useful to know whether a material falls into a broad category — in other words, whether the material is vapor-permeable, vapor-impermeable, or somewhere in between.

To simplify the situation, I’ll list a few materials that are considered “vapor-permeable” — that is, with a perm rating over 10 perms. These materials include gypsum drywall, plastic housewrap, fiberglass batts, cellulose insulation, asphalt-impregnated fiberboard sheathing, and 5 inches or less of open-cell spray foam.

Next, let’s list examples of materials that are considered “Class III vapor retarders” — that is, with a perm rating between 1.0 perm and 10 perms. These materials aren't vapor barriers, but they slow down the flow of water vapor somewhat. Examples include stucco, one or two coats of latex paint, 1 inch of EPS foam insulation, and more than 5 inches of open-cell spray foam. (Note that the greater the thickness of a piece of foam insulation, the lower its permeance.)

The next category is a group of materials that are considered “Class II vapor retarders” — that is, with a perm rating between 0.1 perm and 1.0 perm. These materials slow down the flow of water vapor to a greater extent than materials that are considered Class III vapor retarders. Examples include plywood, OSB, the kraft facing on fiberglass batts, 1-inch-thick XPS foam insulation, and one coat of vapor-retarder paint applied to drywall.

Finally, the most impermeable materials are called “Class I vapor retarders” or “vapor barriers.” There materials include glass, sheet metal, aluminum foil, and polyethylene.

Q. Information overload! What’s the short version?

A. OK, we’ll break all this information down to a few rules:


Most buildings don’t need polyethylene anywhere, except directly under a concrete slab or on a crawl space floor.
The main reason to install an interior vapor retarder is to keep a building inspector happy.
If a building inspector wants you to install a layer of interior polyethylene on a wall or ceiling, see if you can convince the inspector to accept a layer of vapor-retarder paint or a “smart” retarder (for example, MemBrain or Intello Plus) instead.
Although most walls and ceilings don’t need an interior vapor barrier, it’s always a good idea to include an interior air barrier. Air leakage is far more likely to lead to problems than vapor diffusion.

(Mods, should this thread be in Heating and A/C to make it more easier to search?)
 
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Notgrownup

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Spray foam is a bit on the expensive side, but if it is within the budget I would certainly consider using it. It will seal the building and you won't need a vapor barrier.

I haven't priced it out but I think I can do regular insulation for about $400...
 

James-W

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I haven't priced it out but I think I can do regular insulation for about $400...
Spray foam will be at least twice that amount, probably more than that. But even though it will cost more initially, in the long term you will get that money back from savings on your heating and/or cooling bills. My personal opinion is, if it is in the budget, then certainly consider doing it.
 
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Notgrownup

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Spray foam will be at least twice that amount, probably more than that. But even though it will cost more initially, in the long term you will get that money back from savings on your heating and/or cooling bills. My personal opinion is, if it is in the budget, then certainly consider doing it.

Naw...it ain't , it won't ...
 
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