Insulation questions

[Zogman]

Hey guys. I'm having issues keeping heat in my house. I decided to go up in the attic and see the level of insulation and I'm puzzled and bummed at the same time. I've attached a few pics. First shows one of the bats lifted to show how the bats are installed. The joists are 2x4 yet the bats are for 2x6 construction. I have lots of wires, cables and pipes on top of the joists and the bats are installed on top of that. Not touching the drywall below. I reinstalled the bat that I removed but installed it under all of the wires n such. Unfortunately that compressed the bat which I think is not Bueno. The last pic shows the bat just laid over a duct with large gaps.

My dilemma is to reinstall all the bats and under all the stuff even though the bats are actually to thick. Since i have so many can lights in each room and there are just a ton of data and cable wires, I was thinking maybe removing all the bats and have insulation blown in since there are so many nooks and crannies. Any experts out there??? The attic is 2400 sq ft so this is a huge undertaking.




Thanks

Zoli


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[csp]

Attic batts are usually thicker than the dimensional lumber of the trusses. They have to be to get decent R-values.

Your batts should be clearanced (cut) to fit around, both above and below, wiring, pipes, etc.

That flexible vent pipe should be insulated if it's a bath fan vent. It shouldn't be under the batts either.

Blown in is a good idea. Make sure that your cans are rated for IC (insulation contact) if you blow insulation directly around them.

 

[kaymccampbell]

I see a copper pipe on top of the insulation. If it freezes where you are, that's not good. You don't want to get a burst pipe. Water pipes are supposed to be Inside the insulated envelope of the house, not within the insulation or outside it. You might want to put that batt back on top of it.

 

[Camaro dude]

Remove the batt insulation, tent the copper pipes with batt insulation, cover can lights, then Spray foam the ceiling with 2" of close cell. Then blow in 10" of cellulose

 

[justanengineer]

Youre going about this wrong. The bats are supposed to be over top of everything, and are supposed to be thicker than the lumber.

Looks like cheap insulation to me. Personally, I'd go over top of the existing insulation with a layer of R30 bats turned 90 to the existing ones, theyre cheap, easy to install, and are more than enough for much colder locations by themselves. Take an IR camera around the outside of your house at night and again up in the attic to pinpoint the heat loss areas to monitor. You can also walk around and physically feel the walls, windows, and doors. If youre getting window or door frosting/condensing over or something that feels cold from the inside, youve got a major issue.

 

[Cyberbear]

Personally, I don't see a major problem with the thick batts covering everything. The thicker the batt, the more insulation value there is, and smashing down the insulation to fit under everything is defeating the whole reason for insulating in the first place. This insulation works on the principle of trapped air holding the heat. Compressing the insulation removes how the insulation is designed to function.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Youre going about this wrong. The bats are supposed to be over top of everything, and are supposed to be thicker than the lumber.

Looks like cheap insulation to me. Personally, I'd go over top of the existing insulation with a layer of R30 bats turned 90 to the existing ones, theyre cheap, easy to install, and are more than enough for much colder locations by themselves. Take an IR camera around the outside of your house at night and again up in the attic to pinpoint the heat loss areas to monitor. You can also walk around and physically feel the walls, windows, and doors. If youre getting window or door frosting/condensing over or something that feels cold from the inside, youve got a major issue.

Yep. Or you could blow in insulation over it all. Do not block off any air flow between the soffit (or lower vents) and roof vents. Attic space needs to breath.

 

[ludakris04]

what are the two black spots on the insulation from? is that pipe leaking?


I would lay more bats at 90 degrees.. I did this in my last house and it made a huge difference. 15"x25' R30 rolls are $20 at HD.. (just did my garage attic)...

 

[Kaizen]

Youre going about this wrong. The bats are supposed to be over top of everything, and are supposed to be thicker than the lumber.

Looks like cheap insulation to me. Personally, I'd go over top of the existing insulation with a layer of R30 bats turned 90 to the existing ones, theyre cheap, easy to install, and are more than enough for much colder locations by themselves. .

This. you have too much stuff up there for blown in imo. Yeah it will work but a huge pita if you ever need to move stuff around. take care to **** second layer right up to eachother.
pay for a blower door test. guessing in your climate they don't seal penetrations very well. for example wire, pipe, and recessed lights. esp if those are not insulated and sealed recessed lights

 

[bczygan]

I would add 6" of blown-in to fill the gaps and give a level, and then add another layer of unfaced 6" on top.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Another thing to check is your sealing and weatherstripping. It is surprising how much little drafts, caused by poor or missing weatherstripping and a lack of caulking and sealing, will create a feeling of cold.

Bill

 

[Zogman]

Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated I will probably add a 2nd layer 90 degrees out to seal it in nicely.

 

[Falcon67]

Instead of under, you slice the batts and slide them down over, etc. Batts IMHO are better than blown when done right. Our attic is full of blown glass and I can stick my had up in any light can and feel air moving through, even though the cans are covered.

And yes - those black spots in the first pic look like mold, maybe from condensation on that pipe. I would wrap that pipe with foam before laying glass over it again.

 

[bzinsky]

Flir e6 thermal imaging camera, $55 for 4 hour rental from home depot. $2500 camera. Just rented it over the weekend. Realistically you only need it for like 20 minutes.

Found all kinds of stuff. FYI the photo with the two windows is one window not having a storm window shut.

Outdoor temp 33 degrees, indoor temp 70. Just pulled the camera out of the box, pressed the power button, pointed it and pressed the trigger. Easiest thing ever to operate

 

[bzinsky]

interesting picture of a paver fire pit I haven't used in weeks.

I'm guessing that's geothermal heat, it was pretty cold all day.

 

[bigdav160]

The OP is in Southern California. Unless he's in the mountains he probably doesn't need insulation

 

[Zogman]

BigDav, we are at 3100 ft elevation and we get down to freezing regularly in the winter.

That thermal imager looks like a great idea. Thanks

 

[77Mini]

I would put the batt you moved back on top the the copper pipe. Then blow in another foot or so of blown in insulation.

 

[Dragfluid]

Before you add anything, you need to seal up all the penetrations going through the ceiling. Fiberglass doesn't block any airflow, it just filters it. Get several cans for the spray foam and get busy.

Until you have it air sealed, any other effort is wasted effort.

 

[TurnipTruck]

Put in baffles at the eaves and blow-in chopped Fiberglas until everything is covered with a foot of insulation. The chopped Fiberglas is light enough so it won't compress. Is it common to not put in a vapor barrier in a climate like yours? We don't need any air conditioning up here in AK.

 

[walrus]

Before I did anything I'd get a price from an insulation contractor. Most can blew in cellulose better and cheaper than a homeowner can. Good points about the can lights, make sure rated for insulation. I would never put a can light in a insulated ceiling, waste of heat

 

[bigsteve2011]

Before you add anything, you need to seal up all the penetrations going through the ceiling. Fiberglass doesn't block any airflow, it just filters it. Get several cans for the spray foam and get busy.

Until you have it air sealed, any other effort is wasted effort.

This is why the insulation looks 'moldy' it is from the insulation filtering the air that is flowing thru it.
Notice how where the spots are are right near holes in the drywall or top plates.
Just did this in my house before last winter. Sealed holes and caulked gaps then layed R30 insulation 90 degrees to the existing batts and joists.

 

[Zogman]

The moldy black things you see are spray painted numbers on each of the batts. I'm thinking they are lot codes of some sorts.

In regards to can lights, I have over 30 of them up there. They are all silver which means they are OK for direct contact with insulation. Any of you out there use the can light hats / covers to help insulation? It would be a **** load of work to remove the batts over all of those cans to install them but I'm thinking a lot of my loss might be going through the cans.

Right now the batts go right over the top of the cans and there is a bunch of open air space next to the cans since the batts don't form to the shape of the can. I'm thinking install the can hats and then cut the bats to go around the cans nicely and then add the 2nd layer of r30 90 degrees out. Seems like a lot of work especially since my trusses are tight quarters. Thanks for your input.


Z

 

[PeterT]

Just slice the underside of that batt where the copper pipe is run, and fit the batt over the pipe (as mentioned above), but don't make it too tight, it needs the warmth from the interior to keep from freezing,, but above the pipe insulate away. Then cut some strips of a new batt, and fit it around the vent pipes. You can get a couple extra rolls (non faced) and lay another layer, perpendicular to the existing batts, in the spots where there are areas of concern.
As for the canned lights, do they put off a lot of heat? A lot of the newer lights (incandescent & especially LEDs) don't put off heat so I'd go right over them with batts.