Insurance on Detached Garage

[jaw22w]

My 30x36 detached shop is about 75 feet from the house. It has been heated with a wood stove since I built it in 1986. Today I got a letter from the insurance company stating that I must remove the solid fuel heating device in the detached garage by July 29, 2024 or they will cancel my insurance policy. The house is on the same insurance policy as are my cars. The house also has a wood stove as the primary source of heat. No mention of the house in the letter, but I figure if they are after my shop woodstove, they will be after the stove in the house sooner or later.
I have 50 acres of woods on the farm. That has provided all my heating needs for more than 40 years at a very low cost. Now they want me to quit using my free resource and pay to install electric or propane heat, and then continue paying. I just ain't going to do it. I need to check around and see if all insurance companies are the same.
The heck of it is that I am just finishing up a new 30x40 pole barn with a woodstove and was just about ready to call and get some insurance on it. Now I guess that isn't happening.
Anybody else having trouble insuring your wood heated shops? Is this a common thing?
Hell, if it comes down to it, I will just cancel coverage on the shop. Nobody makes me have insurance. It's all paid for.

 

[mike93lx]

i'd ask what their requirements are for coverage, at least. may need an inspection and its ok

i'm guessing that the combo of a wood stove in a space where gasoline is often stored is part of the problem...

 

[Snapped-off]

I'd suggest finding a new insurance company. SF pulled the same thing on my dad with his wood furnace in the basement.

He's only been heating it with for the past 25 years..

 

[loganb]

It's basic risk management on the part of the insurer

Wood stove heated structures have claims at a higher rate, their data proves this. It doesn't matter how long you've owned it or how long you've been without claims...their database of covered properties and associated claims and the correlation between heat source and claim value is all that matters.

Their goal is to lower risk of loss claims, so they either want the elements that caused the increased risk removed, or they want premiums increased or coverage reduced to equalize the risk.

You've got a couple options...

-Change to a heat source they're accepting
-discuss options to reduce fire coverage if deemed to be from the wood stove(aka could you still have coverage if it started by lightening or spread from other sources to the structure)
-pay more
-find a new carrier
-drop coverage all together

There are LOTS of insurance carriers finding out that premiums aren't matching risk models and costs to repair/rebuild...so lots of these discussions are happening. Areas with large scale claims(think Gulf coast and CA) are seeing insurers exit the market as they deem that the better financial choice for them. In some cases this means not issuing new policies, in other cases it means not renewing existing policies. If you rent an apartment in a gulf coast state.....lots of reports of insurance costs for the property owner going up 2x or 3x without any claim history...hint...they're not going to eat that increase if they don't have to.

 

[Jinks]

You own the property, you aren't required to have insurance. Look up your premium, call your agent, & ask if they are willing to loose that much money. If you've never filed a claim it's all profit, if they want to give it up take your premium to another company, or buy liability only & tell them all to **** off............... The sooner insurance companies find out all people aren't sheep the sooner these ridiculous problems & fees will disappear.

 

[nadogail]

Insurance Companies don't want to pay any claim they can avoid.

Perhaps a wood-burning boiler detached from the garage and a hot water loop to heat the garage might be acceptable.

You would get to keep your wood heat and there would be no combustion near Gasoline.

 

[The Cobbler]

as far as not having insurance on your property, well I wouldn't consider it . ever.
It's becoming more common for insurance co's to not want to cover with wood burning devices . I can sort of understand their position as it's probably the most likely to cause damage .
To OP, keep your letter(s) and communications, a friend was told to remove the woodstove in his kitchen many years ago. nothing was said about the fireplace in the living room ( that was seldom used)
a few years after the request, they had a fireplace fire, turns out a 6x6 post was against the firebox and caught fire. a rural property almost totalled. anyway, the insurance company said they were denying the claim as homeowner was advised to remove it. luckily they had the correspondence that clearly stated " woodstove in kitchen"

 

[jaw22w]

I really didn't like the tone of that letter. You will do this or else! NAH! Especially when I ain't breaking any law. That just doesn't sit well with me. Been insured with AF for years. They knew damn well that woodstove was there all along. My first impulse is to call my agent in the morning and raise ****** hell. But I think I am too mad just yet. Might wait a couple of days and check with some other insurance carriers. First question will be about the woodstoves.

 

[reader2580]

I know people who ran into this issue 25 years here in Minnesota. Insurers would not insure farms with wood stoves. One couple I know simply removed their wood stove as they could not find any insurer that would cover a farm with a wood stove.

 

[Firebrick43]

I know people who ran into this issue 25 years here in Minnesota. Insurers would not insure farms with wood stoves. One couple I know simply removed their wood stove as they could not find any insurer that would cover a farm with a wood stove.

Here as well. Nearly everyone in my family has had theirs required to be removed by multiple companies nearly 20 years ago in the shops.

 

[72Wagon]

Have had a wood furnace in the basement since house was built in 1985, SF insurance paid for a chimney flu replacement in 90 due to chimney fire that was caused by a improperly installed flu liner.
Not even sure they know about the floor pit in the garage!

Wood fired heat today, next thing you know they will say you can't park your Tesla / EV in the garage.

 

[loganb]

I really didn't like the tone of that letter. You will do this or else! NAH! Especially when I ain't breaking any law. That just doesn't sit well with me. Been insured with AF for years. They knew damn well that woodstove was there all along. My first impulse is to call my agent in the morning and raise ****** hell. But I think I am too mad just yet. Might wait a couple of days and check with some other insurance carriers. First question will be about the woodstoves.

Figure out how to get over the emotions, it's business. As your structure gets older, the wood stove gets older and the risk of a claim goes up at the same time the cost of a claim goes up and it no longer makes sense for them to cover it. You have lots of options for ways to resolve it, get started to figure out which you prefer and move forward.

 

[AC-WC]

Look for other insurance.
As frustrating as it is I would keep some kind of insurance. Mom had a fire in the hay barn and lost everything. We thought the building was covered but it wasn't. At least the contents were, which was a lot equipment expenses. At least SF covered that.

 

[u2slow]

I can't have a woodstove in my detached shop either. Its not a new rule.

I recall the reasoning... because a shop isn't a dwelling unit, its not regarded as a safe form of heat to run unattended.

Another quirk.... how much you use your home's woodstove may affect your insurance. I discovered that threshold is 35hrs/week. Beyond that, they consider it 'primary heat' and your premium increases.

 

[mike93lx]

I can't have a woodstove in my detached shop either. Its not a new rule.

I recall the reasoning... because a shop isn't a dwelling unit, its not regarded as a safe form of heat to run unattended.

Another quirk.... how much you use your home's woodstove may affect your insurance. I discovered that threshold is 35hrs/week. Beyond that, they consider it 'primary heat' and your premium increases.

Well shoot, look at that, happens to be Bout 34 hrs a week

 

[NUTTSGT]

Don't make a phone call to your agent, pay him or her a visit. Listen to what they say and tell them, if you are not happy with what they say, you will be looking for a new provider.


I have Grange and it's never been an issue.

 

[Prospecter]

My experience is also no wood stove in the shop. The trigger was the garage door, and concerns about gasoline in the same space as the stove. With our 35 acres, a lot of companies are not interested in providing insurance. I will say I've come to enjoy the convenience of propane. We have 2 wood stoves and central heat pump / propane backup in the house.

 

[WisJim]

Insurance companies may accept a newer wood heater that meets all current standards and not an older stove, and probably not a nameless or homebuilt stove. We had to shop around and find a company that would cover us for the house that had a very recent wood furnace that met all the rules. But I can understand their logic in not covering a stove in an unoccupied space. Make sure the stove is labeled and meets the ANSI/UL standards and the EPA standards.
Insurance was part of the reason I installed minisplit heat pumps.

 

[Metal-Marc]

Insurance was part of the reason I installed minisplit heat pumps.

The only reason why I have a mini split heat pump in my garage is so I can have AC in the summer. As a bonus I can also heat the garage during winter.

The garage is nice and cool all summer long and it's much more fun to work on projects this way.

 

[428PI]

On my old insurance (which went belly up) I was assessed a 35 dollar yearly charge for my propane heat in my shop. Since I changed insurances (state farm) I'm not even sure yet as I haven't seen all the paper work yet but the total bill was several hundred dollars cheaper anyone. I did reduce coverage of my shop building and increased it on my shed (which I just redid and will move shop into there if shop burns down). Still have wood heat in house which the old company gave a fit about. I did have to lower the plenum so it had at least an inch clearance under floor joists. (never gets much hotter than I can put my hand on it). With new company no hassle so far but who knows. I was threatening to do away with insurance if it came to that.

 

[durk_2007]

When I called my AmFam agent to add my shop she asked about wood stove. I asked what it mattered and got the response that they will not insure any building with a solid fuel heat source INSIDE and door capable of vehicular access due to combustable fumes

 

[Dig Doug]

My natural gas water heater is in my garage & on a stand, been there since 1968.

a propane heater has combustion….

maybe you need to elevate the heat source, like a water heater stand that, keeps the burn box up off the floor

 

[rancherbill]

If you've never filed a claim it's all profit, if they want to give it up take your premium to another company, or buy liability only & tell them all to **** off............... The sooner insurance companies find out all people aren't sheep the sooner these ridiculous problems & fees will disappear.

I am sure the insurance companies will bend over backwards when you tell them the truth.

Insurance does not work that way. They are busy paying claims in California and hurricane country. They are getting rid of risk on all their policies.

Loganb really nails it.

 

[Youngandfree]

Many insurance companies are sending notices about dropping customers that have a dirty roof if they don't get it cleaned. Not surprising they are dropping due to real fire hazards.

 

[denis4x4]

Has this issue come up for pellet stoves either in the house or shop? I have a house with a giant pellet stove that is far more effective than a wood stove and cheaper and easier to operate. Had a pellet stove in the shop and when I installed AC, switched to propane heat. All of my out buildings are covered by the main policy. An insurance inspector comes every other year to make sure that my policy covers what I say it covers.

 

[jonesg]

pellet stove all day long.

 

[JunkBonds]

You own the property, you aren't required to have insurance. Look up your premium, call your agent, & ask if they are willing to loose that much money. If you've never filed a claim it's all profit, if they want to give it up take your premium to another company, or buy liability only & tell them all to **** off............... The sooner insurance companies find out all people aren't sheep the sooner these ridiculous problems & fees will disappear.

You do have to have insurance if you have a mortgage.

 

[mike93lx]

You do have to have insurance if you have a mortgage.

But the OP doesn't have a mortgage

 

[Rst277]

Insurance Companies don't want to pay any claim they can avoid.

Perhaps a wood-burning boiler detached from the garage and a hot water loop to heat the garage might be acceptable.

You would get to keep your wood heat and there would be no combustion near Gasoline.

This is a solid option. One boiler and you can heat the house and both out buildings with no fire risk. Lots of guys up here do exactly that. You gain space in the garage and all the mess of firewood is outside by the boiler.

 

[Jazz1]

As others state ask what is required for wood stove in garage…
My garage fully insured with wood stove. I did have to raise stove 12”…they wanted stove 18” above floor,,,,,due to possible low lying combustible fumes and proper insulated chimney which is common sense.

 

[PoorUB]

Time to buy a outside wood boiler.

State Farm put the kibosh on wood burners in garages many years ago.

 

[Boon]

My 30x36 detached shop is about 75 feet from the house. It has been heated with a wood stove since I built it in 1986. Today I got a letter from the insurance company stating that I must remove the solid fuel heating device in the detached garage by July 29, 2024 or they will cancel my insurance policy. The house is on the same insurance policy as are my cars. The house also has a wood stove as the primary source of heat. No mention of the house in the letter, but I figure if they are after my shop woodstove, they will be after the stove in the house sooner or later.
I have 50 acres of woods on the farm. That has provided all my heating needs for more than 40 years at a very low cost. Now they want me to quit using my free resource and pay to install electric or propane heat, and then continue paying. I just ain't going to do it. I need to check around and see if all insurance companies are the same.
The heck of it is that I am just finishing up a new 30x40 pole barn with a woodstove and was just about ready to call and get some insurance on it. Now I guess that isn't happening.
Anybody else having trouble insuring your wood heated shops? Is this a common thing?
Hell, if it comes down to it, I will just cancel coverage on the shop. Nobody makes me have insurance. It's all paid for.

My insurance company made us remove the wood stove from our old garage before they would cover it. The explanation that I got was that there are usually flammables in a garage and that some fumes from working in a garage are hazardous, like working on carburetors, finishing wood or painting. I removed it and installed an electric heater. It is more expensive but I only heat it when I am doing finish work on my woodworking projects. I probably would have pushed back more but I am in a high danger area for wildfire so fire is a touchy subject when it comes to insurance. Some folks here have been dropped just because of their location close to large fires (High Park and Cameron Peak) in the last ten or eleven years. When we looked at heating the new garage we looked at electricity the cost would have been around 3,000 to 4,000. We are going to use propane because buying a propane tank will be cheaper. I sure would have preferred using a wood stove instead.

 

[Sturgeon]

Feel for you opp, was shopping for insurance for new shop and there first question was do you have a wood stove. Needless to say my new to me wood stove went to a loggers residence. Really wanted wood heat. As a side note went with a ceiling propane heater that's noisier than sin.

 

[Higgins]

My 30x36 detached shop is about 75 feet from the house. It has been heated with a wood stove since I built it in 1986. Today I got a letter from the insurance company stating that I must remove the solid fuel heating device in the detached garage by July 29, 2024 or they will cancel my insurance policy. The house is on the same insurance policy as are my cars. The house also has a wood stove as the primary source of heat. No mention of the house in the letter, but I figure if they are after my shop woodstove, they will be after the stove in the house sooner or later.
I have 50 acres of woods on the farm. That has provided all my heating needs for more than 40 years at a very low cost. Now they want me to quit using my free resource and pay to install electric or propane heat, and then continue paying. I just ain't going to do it. I need to check around and see if all insurance companies are the same.
The heck of it is that I am just finishing up a new 30x40 pole barn with a woodstove and was just about ready to call and get some insurance on it. Now I guess that isn't happening.
Anybody else having trouble insuring your wood heated shops? Is this a common thing?
Hell, if it comes down to it, I will just cancel coverage on the shop. Nobody makes me have insurance. It's all paid for.

We moved last yr and all the insurance companies had lots of questions on the application.
Type of pets, kids outside slides, trampolines, pool both small and large, fireplaces, wood burning, gas assisted, gas only, then on to free standing etc. attached garage No wall mounted gas heaters.
Then it was on to the numbers of yrs old for your ROOF, fireplace, water heater.
Then it was off to basementdoes it get damp, has it flooded, sub pumps ???
It was nuts !!!!
AL

 

[Mittynodle]

I can definitely relate to your frustration with insurance companies. A few years ago, I had a similar issue with my detached garage and heating. I’ve been using a wood stove for years, just like you, and was told by my insurer, Lucky Penny Insurance, that I’d have to make changes or lose coverage. I ended up switching to a more flexible company that didn’t have issues with wood stoves. I understand where you're coming from though—it’s frustrating when you’ve got a reliable and cost-effective heating source, and they want you to swap it out for something more expensive. If it gets too much, you might want to shop around or, like you said, just drop the coverage and save yourself the hassle.

 

[racecougar]

I understand where you're coming from though—it’s frustrating when you’ve got a reliable and cost-effective heating source, and they want you to swap it out for something more expensive. If it gets too much, you might want to shop around or, like you said, just drop the coverage and save yourself the hassle.

The thread is from October of 2023.

 

[manwithtools]

The thread is from October of 2023.

There has been a lot of this recently from new posters. Some going back 10 years to drag up old posts. Maybe some search algorithm leading them to these old posts?

 

[finn]

You own the property, you aren't required to have insurance. Look up your premium, call your agent, & ask if they are willing to loose that much money. If you've never filed a claim it's all profit, if they want to give it up take your premium to another company, or buy liability only & tell them all to **** off............... The sooner insurance companies find out all people aren't sheep the sooner these ridiculous problems & fees will disappear.

That’s not how probability, statistics, and the resultant actuarial tables work. Just because my house hasn’t burned to the ground yet doesn’t mean it won’t next year, and, statistically, the odds of the house burning down are higher if there’s a solid fuel device in the house.

I haven’t died of a heart attack in the past seventy some years, but that fact doesn’t mitigate the risk that I may or may not die from one next year.

Wood stove fires are, from what I have observed, often actually chimney fires. We get a couple dozen a year in our surrounding counties. That led to the popularity of outdoor wood boilers, which, from what I have seen, aren’t very reliable, and prone to other issues caused by abusive owners burning unseasoned wood.

 

[racecougar]

There has been a lot of this recently from new posters. Some going back 10 years to drag up old posts. Maybe some search algorithm leading them to these old posts?

Yep. I've noticed it too.