Insuring vintage tools

[Shiftless]

Do you have insurance on your big accumulation of high value vintage tools?

Here is a Homeowners insurance question about vises (in my case) or other collectible (non business related) tools.

Background:
More than 5 million acres in the western US has recently burned. Thousands of homes have been destroyed. Some small towns have been completely wiped out.

I live in the very high fire hazard severity zone of the East Bay Hills. San Francisco Bay Area.

A very destructive wildfire swept through the Oakland Berkeley hills in 1991 where temperatures reached at least 1500 degrees and cracked concrete foundations and melted cars.


I know that more than a few GJ members have quite a few vises or other collectible tools that are worth serious money.

Have you thought about the possibility of a big hot fire causing irreparable damage to most or all of your collection?

I spoke with our insurance agent yesterday about coverage for our house and contents. If our house burns down, the company will pay to rebuild and upgrade to current building codes. Contents are insured up to 75% of the structure amount. There are limits for good jewelry and furs ($2500) firearms ($2500) gold and silverware ($5000), computers ($5000),
Coins ($200 only!) If you need insurance for more than that in those categories, you need a special upgrade rider.

But there are no specific limits on furniture, appliances, clothes, or tools unless they are used in a business.

Has anybody here experienced a big fire or theft loss involving collectible tools? What stories can you pass on so that those of us who haven’t can prepare or insure ourselves against loss.

Full replacement cost coverage, which I have, involves me buying a duplicate of whatever was lost and sending the company the receipt for reimbursement. New laundry and kitchen appliances would be no problem. Finding excellent condition exact replacements for 100 year old tools from companies long out of business would be difficult and very expensive. At some point, any insurance company probably would balk claiming that my old stuff was a collection and deny my claims.

Our agent cautioned me against referring to my accumulation of about 100 bench vises as being a “collection”. Collections of any kind require a rider. My agent said that just because I have a lot of one kind of tool doesn’t necessarily make it a collection. Somehow that seems like it might not hold.


Can anybody relate real world experience with loss of non business rare tools?

Does anybody have a separate insurance rider for tool collections?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Don1357]

What you want is an umbrella policy, with pre negotiated amounts for high value items. In your case those items are vintage tools.

You'll need to inventory said tools, take pictures, and be prepared to justify the value you claim.

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks Don
It sounds like you have an insurance background. How is an umbrella policy different from a rider?

I have an umbrella policy for personal liability.

 

[d42jeep]

I have Hagerty insurance on my vintage cars and I believe they offer additional coverage for tools.
-Don

 

[Shiftless]

I have Hagerty insurance on my vintage cars and I believe they offer additional coverage for tools.
-Don

That’s a great idea, Don. Thanks for the tip.

 

[redragoon]

I haven't added tools, but I might want to start.
State Farm allowed me to add to my policy for additional firearms and my collectible paintball equipment. I took pictures and serial numbers with an estimated cost of the items to be added. Everything was under their standard add on value, so I did not have to provide more justification for the prices.
There should be available policies from your current provider or from another insurance agency to cover the items.

 

[ddawg16]

I'd be inclined to spend the money on protection/prevention.

With some things, no amount of money will replace it.

For example.....I no longer have any gas powered tools....so, no gas in the garage. All my walls have 5/8" drywall. Fire extinguishers on both floors.

Maybe you could make a room that is somewhat fire proof. A few layers of drywall makes for a pretty good fire wall.

 

[Don1357]

Thanks Don
It sounds like you have an insurance background. How is an umbrella policy different from a rider?

I have an umbrella policy for personal liability.

I didn't explain myself well at all there, I was on my way out of the door.

You need to go over three things: the umbrella policy which you have and actually doesn't do anything for loss of property, the coverage that can be done through your regular homeowners insurance, and then the negotiated riders to protect what is not covered under your regular policy.

I'm in the same boat as you. Now that I have my garage/shop I need to make sure my policies are up to date (USAA). First stop is to look at my current homeowner's coverage to see what I currently have. Lo and behold the 'other structures' are capped at $28k... Fortunately bumping that coverage to $70k is only $2.24 a month.

Next is personal belongings, which is capped at $210k. That sounds adequate enough... But digging down there are limits:

Jewelry/Watches/Furs $10,000 (theft only)
Credit Card $5,000
Business Property $10,000
Silverware/Goldware/Pewterware $10,000 (theft only)
Guns $10,000 (theft only)
Money $200
Securities $1,000

No limit on tools... I still need to give them a call on that one just to confirm. Watches, Guns, Silverware/Goldware, I'm under insured; I need to look into further insuring that....

My vintage cars are usually insured by American Collectors Insurance for agreed-upon value (currently off the road), so i'm good there.

As you see 'other structures' only took $2.24 a month and a quick update online. Tools seem not to be capped and would fall under the generous personal belongings limits (USAA). I must call to confirm. The other collectibles is where my coverage is very weak, so I need to look into padding my insurance on that regard.

 

[1982fxr]

Any idea how this would work with a renter's policy?

I have renter's insurance but I can't remember if I asked about tools and equipment...

 

[RTM]

I have asked about this for other things, and have a jewelry rider and a camera rider, as they exceeded limits someone listed above. The guidance I was given is if you have anything above a normal homeowner’s quantity, you should probably pursue a rider.

I.e. if you work with tools, and have more than the accountant next door has, you might want to get a rider.

For my modern camera, it will be easy to track, as values are easy. For antiques etc, antique tools, etc, my agent told me its much harder. We did an insurance check up 10 years ago, and when I asked about tools, I got an odd look. As most of mine have trivial volume, I still have not gotten a rider.

 

[Jim C.]

I have Hagerty insurance on my vintage cars and I believe they offer additional coverage for tools.
-Don

Don, you’re correct. Hagerty does offer insurance for tools. As long as you have a vehicle currently insured with them, they’ll insure your tools too. I’m not 100% sure that means all your tools, or only the tools you would use to work on the insured vehicle(s).

Jim C.

 

[Ilikeike]

I need to re-visit this myself.

I checked with our insurance (AAA) a few years ago about my firearm collection,
they told me I would need an appraisal. I think they said around $2000-3000 was included, I don't remember exactly, but I know it wouldn't even cover my Ammo collection, or even the safe itself.

Just my non collectable garage tools would be north of $20k to replace.
It all adds up quick when you really think about it.


I have Grundy classic car ins., maybe I'll check to see what they offer.

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks for all of the replies. It looks like I’m not the only one concerned about losses these days.

 

[TUHurricane]

I didn't think my first post on GJ would be about insurance, but I thought I could at least be a little helpful here.

You need what's called a "personal inland marine" policy. Per Wikipedia: "Inland marine insurance in the United States indemnifies loss to movable or specialized types of property, historically developing as an outgrowth of ocean marine insurance." This is why it is referred to as a "marine" policy even though it has nothing to do with boats! There are quite a few specialty insurers that offer inland marine coverage.

I am an aviation claims adjuster, and I don't normally handle inland marine claims. However, I did pay for a mechanic's Snap-On toolbox once.

Hope this helps!

 

[Shiftless]

TUH:
Thanks!
I’ll look into that and maybe others will too.
It never ceases to amaze me the width and depth of knowledge here on GJ.

 

[Farmer J.]

My insurance is with the National Farmers Union Mutual, and I have an extra 'all risks' cover for my tools which seems very reasonable cost to me.

My thoughts go out to those in the area of the fires. The smoke is now visible in the sky from here this evening. Looking on the satellite pics it has drifted over the Pacific then swirled around in a weather system and got dragged all the way East back across the USA and the Atlantic.

 

[FJ 432]

I would like to add this:

1. In the event of loss one question that could be asked of you is whether you use your tools for business purposes. Answering yes to this question will limit your coverage based on the limitations of your policy under business related items (it used to be $200 when I was an adjuster). Be careful with that question.

2. Tools typically do not have coverage limits however you do have policy limits on personal property. If you become a serious collector you should request increased policy limits.

3. You can never take to many photos of your property. A fire can be devastating and can be so hot that items melt. Photos provide you proof of ownership but also jog your memory on what you own.

From an old claims adjuster.

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks FJ. Input from an experienced professional is quite valuable to all of us.

I’ll admit that once in a while I sell a vise or trade it away for other vises. That happens only a couple of times per year. I wonder if that makes my 100 vises part of a business inventory? If I store them off the floor on shelves does that automatically make the accumulation a “collection”?

 

[FJ 432]

Thanks FJ. Input from an experienced professional is quite valuable to all of us.

I’ll admit that once in a while I sell a vise or trade it away for other vises. That happens only a couple of times per year. I wonder if that makes my 100 vises part of a business inventory? If I store them off the floor on shelves does that automatically make the accumulation a “collection”?

No. Your vise collection is just a collection. You do not derive your income from your inventory.

Home owner policies do not want to cover personal property that is used in business pursuits. If you're a mechanic by trade and your income is made up of repairing vehicles and you do it from home, well you should have a business policy to cover those items. Just as most home owner policies clearly define that a vehicle is not covered under a home owner's policy.

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks for the clarification FJ.
If I buy a vise for $50 and spend 3 hours fixing it up using $10 worth of consumables, then sell it for 150, and do that every 6 months, it doesn’t sound like much of a business does it?
Here is a pic of part of my accumulation.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

To add on to some other posts in here, all carriers have different policies. Most of the policies I've seen have the following caps at usually $1,500 or $2,500;

Jewelry
Computers
Stamps
Collectible Coins
Disney, Barbie etc
Firearms

I put a $15,000 endorsement on my computers (software) and it was about $40 a year.

Also, "splash cash", as in normal money, is usually capped at $500. (If you have a house fire they don't want someone saying, "Yea, I had a hundred K under the mattress that just burned up".

Take lots of photos. Most of us have so much stuff it's easier to have friend or wife video record you while you talk through each drawer and shelf...."Here is Snap on Sockets, 3/8" drive shallow, chrome, 6 point, from 5mm to 23mm" "Here is approximately 25 center drills" etc

Photograph Serial #s for the real odd/pricy/rare stuff (or every single one is even better)

And store a copy of the photos/video on a flash drive at somebody elses house or in an old ammo can wayyyyy out in the backyard so it doesn't burn up in said house fire or water damage etc.

And like FJ said, "THIS IS MY PERSONAL HOBBY. IT'S JUST FOR FUN."

Tip: some of the BEST carriers are Wawanesa, USAA, and Lloyds of London.

Source: I'm a property claims adjuster.

 

[thehorse13]

Thanks for the clarification FJ.
If I buy a vise for $50 and spend 3 hours fixing it up using $10 worth of consumables, then sell it for 150, and do that every 6 months, it doesn’t sound like much of a business does it?
Here is a pic of part of my accumulation.

I'd love to raid that top shelf. I spy a few things that I...need.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Most of us have so much stuff it's easier to have friend or wife video record you while you talk through each drawer and shelf...."Here is Snap on Sockets, 3/8" drive shallow, chrome, 6 point, from 5mm to 23mm" "Here is approximately 25 center drills" etc.

This is a great idea regardless of insurance purposes! As morbid as it sounds, I've been thinking (and of course procrastinating...) about inventorying my collection, including approximate value, for years, so my wife and/or children know what's there. You'd think that the act of actively participating on the GJ vintage board would suffice, but I've been terribly lazy and organized about details in the folders on my computer. Walking around the Lugzsonian talking into my phone camera set on video mode sounds so much easier!

"This is a late 1930's Snap-on K-21 toolbox with miscellaneous Snap-on tools worth approximately $300."

Of course, someone will probably get it for $50.