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Interesting Comment About COO

Charles (in GA)

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While perusing the Singapore Straits Times new web site, I ran across THIS SHORT ARTICLE about worries about the US tightening up on trade protectionism. The comments were made by Colombian Ambassador Eduardo Munoz Gomez, the head of a World Trade Organisation panel who oversaw the WTO's biennial review of U.S. trade policy.

The last line of the article reads............

"Some nations also described U.S. requirements that imports should have a country-of-origin label as "cumbersome, complex, outdated and non-transparent."

Well, DUH!!!!! do they think we DON"T WANT TO KNOW where our goods come from?????? Why would this labeling be a "problem".

Charles
 
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theamcaddict

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I fully support COO markings if used properly. At work I see packages of parts(hub assemblies,mechatronics units,etc) that have individual parts from all over europe yet the package is labeled made in Germany even the only one small item originated there. I have a co-worker that gets sports jerseys from Honk kong through DHL that are labaled made in haiti,guatemala.

As for fears of a protectionist stance I don't think we will see anything extreme in the next few years.
 

David W

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It's our country and our rules. If they don't like it then don't try to export to us.
I'm sure "cumbersome " doesn't even come close to describing what it's like to export our products to their countries.
 

theknurl

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It's our country and our rules. If they don't like it then don't try to export to us.
I'm sure "cumbersome " doesn't even come close to describing what it's like to export our products to their countries.

+10

they don't like it? F*** them
 

RivennHewn

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It's our country and our rules. If they don't like it then don't try to export to us.
I'm sure "cumbersome " doesn't even come close to describing what it's like to export our products to their countries.

Well said.
 

BrokewrenchLS1

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Complex and non-transparent?

How is labeling the country of origin of something non-transparent? Quite the opposite.
 

CNGsaves

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Saw a documentary and Columbia also exports/imports more than just Coke . . . . CASH !! They were cutting open farm products like a container (say 6 ft x 6 ft square) of soybeans, etc. and buried in middle was shrink-wrapped CASH . . . to the tune of millions in each container!!
 

Polski-Chevy

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columbia only exports coke anyways

Don't for get about all those cool jackets :lol_hitti

tn_1213ColumbiaWGridLineJacketLightGrapeNeonLight.jpg
 

justanengineer

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Complex and non-transparent?

How is labeling the country of origin of something non-transparent? Quite the opposite.

I would disagree. How many times has someone questioned COO on here and its been discovered Part A is made in Mexico, Part B is made in the US by Mexicans, Part C is China etc etc, and its legally advertised as Made in US? I believe what is being said, is that most products are made via world manufacturing so there is little point in worrying about a specific COO.

Ive had several foreigners at work question me about this as well as the DIY mentality....both thoughts that are fairly common in the US but dont appear to be so overseas. Not too many HDs or Lowe's in India and China, and from what I hear they worry more about the quality of product than the COO.
 

CNGsaves

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+1 for Stephen9666 that language of COO rules determines what gets put on the label (ie Made in USA / Made in Taiwan / Made in China).

Someday in future if FULL transparency of all data is available (ie source parts detail down to each nut and washer . . . . like AIRPLANE manufacturers must do within their software), then buyer can be buried in massive data and interpret it as they wish. SAP, Oracle and other massive software vendors make their living by integrating systems that track this level of detail to every airplane that is in the sky. This includes replacement parts (and history of initial part installed, and each subsequent replacement part thereafter), so that if aircraft crashes and fault is determined to be Widgit A, then that is company that Boeing/Airbus/whoever goes after, and makes darn sure that all Widget A's in other planes are replaced.

Friend of mine is engineer at Boeing and think this is called Lifetime History of Plane or something similar.

Reality of products is they're only certain % from any one country. They are a mix of materials and subcomponents made in various countries, and labor performed in various countries as well. In fact, Cessna now has plane that is manufactured in China but assembled here in KS.

When most vehicles get fully analyzed for % in one particular country, the dollar value of electronics skews their country of origin to be mostly Japan/Taiwan/etc.

Personally, I'm more interested in quality of all of components combined (parts and labor) and does product perform as intended, rather than generic COO sticker that is on it.
 

honcho

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The worldwide nature of trade makes attribution of Country of Origin more challenging but no less valuable to consumers, whether they be individuals shopping at the mall or industrial consumers who want to integrate components into their products or governments who need to adhere to laws favoring (or disfavoring ) products from particular countries.

Germans in particular prefer purchasing many products that are made in Germany or the EU. The Japanese often prefer Japanese made products and companies like Toshiba and Hitachi produce appliances in Japan that they don't export while their export products are made in China for the USA. Americans aren't particularly picky about where products come from--we prefer well-known brands and / or cheap prices. We'll shop at Wal-Mart and buy things made by almost-slave labor in China so we can save enough money to buy some designer brand sneakers at a ridiculously high price (also made in China) and then we'll moan and groan when the local manufacturing plant is shut down because labor costs are too high.

I believe in trade and know that global trade produces many benefits for everyone. I also want to know where products come from so I can direct my purchases to support companies that acquire goods from countries that trade fairly (or at least not too unfairly) and don't abuse their citizens and workers. It's certainly not easy when most companies don't give a dern about anything other than profit margins.

It's difficult to have our cake and eat it too. Buy what you want from wherever you want but at least tell us where it's from and maybe some consumers will pay attention.
 

Dan Babb

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Zero times that I know of, because the label "made in the USA" is tightly controlled in the US. In your scenario, the item could be labeled "assembled in the USA" or "made in the USA with foreign and domestic components."


Didn't we have a post here not too long ago about Snap On Jack Stands. The base was made in China, but the center piece is US. They advertise it as Made in the USA on their website.

The only thing complex about it is that companies lie about the COO.

Do we really need to go to something like 100% Made in USA or 75% Made in USA?
 

sensei_

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maybe partner is singaporean? catching up on some local news, other than that, why would you even bother. its basically the mr lee's shoutbox
 
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Harvey Melvin Richards

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I have a Delta DJ-20 jointer. It has a big "Made in the USA" label on the base. The base was made in the USA, however the actual jointer was made in Taiwan. So, yes we do have a problem with transparency.
 

BrokewrenchLS1

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I would disagree. How many times has someone questioned COO on here and its been discovered Part A is made in Mexico, Part B is made in the US by Mexicans, Part C is China etc etc, and its legally advertised as Made in US? I believe what is being said, is that most products are made via world manufacturing so there is little point in worrying about a specific COO.

Ive had several foreigners at work question me about this as well as the DIY mentality....both thoughts that are fairly common in the US but dont appear to be so overseas. Not too many HDs or Lowe's in India and China, and from what I hear they worry more about the quality of product than the COO.

I don't see how it makes it less transparent, though - if there is some sort of COO marking, the end consumer has an idea of at least where some part, or the majority of, a product is from. Eliminating the COO marking entirely would make it impossible to tell where something came from. The US also has regulations on the percentage of an item that can be made from materials imported into the US and still marked as "Made in the US" - hence the popularity of "Made in the US from domestic and imported materials" labels.

One example is fruit juice - I refuse to buy any sort of juice that comes from outside of the US, due to a complete lack of regulation. Apple juice made from Chinese apples isn't really juice at all - Chinese apples are so bitter and inedible that they're dehydrated, ground into a powder, shipped to the US, reconstituted with water and not a small amount of sugar and artificial apple flavoring. Since it technically has apple in it, it's apple juice, rather than "apple-flavored beverage", but it's not something I'd want to drink.
 

kythri

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The marking requirements DON'T make it less transparent. It's all just bureaucratic propaganda BS from people that don't like playing by our rules, even though we play by all of theirs.
 

Lump

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It's nice to see a thoughtful and intelligent conversation on this important, and controversial subject. Thanks, guys. I'll continue to enjoy reading insightful information, and follow this thread.
 

thightower

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What other countries think of coo is none of my concern. The reason I pay attention to coo is I would rather pay an American to make my stuff than anyone else. I would rather keep my money in the U.S. than giving it to someone overseas.
 

A_Pmech

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Excellent response! :thumbup:

What other countries think of coo is none of my concern. The reason I pay attention to coo is I would rather pay an American to make my stuff than anyone else. I would rather keep my money in the U.S. than giving it to someone overseas.
 

oldtools

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Can't get to the full article. I would like to hear both side of the story. He may have a point. The world economy is so globalized, sometime it is just not practical or difficult to define COO. Germany may assemble the tools that is made in Taiwan with steel from China/India that is refined from iron ore from Pakistan. The rubber handle is molded in Vietnam with rubber from Malaysia.

Time and money are wasted to define COO. Then someone in the US has to verify the COO. If there is disagreement, then there is legal battle that can drain alot of time and money.

How is Boeing going to define the COO of its new 787 Dreamliner. The plane is engineered globally (US, China, Japan, Italy, etc...) and manufactured globally using global materials. US performs final assembly.
 

Lump

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Back when I was on the SEMA board of directors, I sat in on meetings with trade lawyers, huge importers, struggling exporters, congressmen, etc. Some of these discussions took place in Washington, DC. This issue is hugely complex, and very important to just about every country in the world. We're not going to solve it here on Garage Journal, nor are most of us even likely to completely understand the entire scope of this problem. I know that many of the challenges within this huge issue are too complex for my meager understanding.

Yet, it may be valuable to recognize a couple factual points:
First, the biggest problem in COO markings in the USA is enforcement. There are only a handful of inspectors for millions of metric tons of imported goods arriving daily in the USA via land, air, and sea. And those few overworked inspectors are tasked with hundreds of responsibilities, such as stopping the flow of illegal drugs (cocaine, heroin, etc), illegal weapons, fake pharmaceuticals, toxic chemicals, etc. They must also find pirated intellectual properties (DVD's, movies, fake-label clothing, etc.) And in addition thousands of other difficult tasks, they must inspect incoming goods for properly-marked COO labels. It is a nearly impossible task, but they must do it, or our nation would drown in ripped-off and fake products. (Indeed, several manufacturers of automotive speed parts have discovered fakes of their own brand-named products on the market, in packaging which is hard to tell from the original.)
Second, politics plays a giant role in our negotiations with foreign countries. For example: when we're trying to get China to help us keep North Korea from starting a nuclear war, it's sometimes expedient to concede some import/export issues with them.
Third (and this one may amaze some folks), China is growing so fast that they are becoming a huge customer for many American goods. For example, last year GM sold 600,000 more cars in China than they did in the USA. I learned this from a meeting with some SEMA executives, but here is a link to an article which appeared in CAR AND DRIVER magazine this year:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/ford-and-gm-battle-for-sales-in-china-feature
Indeed, GM sold 4.5 times as many Buicks in China as they did in the US. Many, many US companies are looking to China for future sales. And Chinese citizens are apparently hungry for "cool" US products. Thus, USA trade authorities are not interested in starting any trade wars over there, if they can help it.

Personally, I like to buy USA-made goods, when I have a choice. And I like that COO label to be very clear and easy to read. (For the record, US Customs officials helped me with a legal concern about this issue years ago by simplifying the legalese about the COO label like this: "A consumer is supposed to be able to determine COO before they make a purchase, period." Yet, when you look through catalogs and online sites, the COO is rarely stated.)

Again, this issue is extremely complex, with myriad "side-issues" involved. For me, I will buy superior US or European products when I have a reasonable choice.
 

Lump

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And again, my thanks go out to all you guys, for keeping this conversation intelligent, thoughtful, respectful, and...alive.
 

kythri

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They must also find pirated intellectual properties (DVD's, movies, fake-label clothing, etc.) And in addition thousands of other difficult tasks, they must inspect incoming goods for properly-marked COO labels. It is a nearly impossible task, but they must do it, or our nation would drown in ripped-off and fake products. (Indeed, several manufacturers of automotive speed parts have discovered fakes of their own brand-named products on the market, in packaging which is hard to tell from the original.)

This is the part that bugs me a bit. Prior to the DMCA, this kind of thing was a purely civil matter, and the responsibility of the infringed property to police, report and take to court.

This is something that I strongly feel should NOT be a government/criminal matter - enforcement is near-impossible on any kind of scale, and it shouldn't be at the government/taxpayer expense.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want my stuff pirated/copied/whatever, but at the same time, I don't believe that our law enforcement agencies should be handling copyright infringement/trademark infringement/etc.

It just contributes to more big government. The laws on this need restructured to allow for seizures of the equipment, it's transport, etc. as recompense to parties who have prevailed in the justice system.

The forfeiture of a few cargo ships to the parties who won their civil suit would send a message, I do believe.
 

WHT

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Ive had several foreigners at work question me about this as well as the DIY mentality....both thoughts that are fairly common in the US but dont appear to be so overseas. Not too many HDs or Lowe's in India and China, and from what I hear they worry more about the quality of product than the COO.

Well sure, they are not worried about preserving manufacturing. People seem to forget that many of us look at COO with respect to jobs in THIS country. It is not simply a matter of quality.
 

03protege

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It's our country and our rules. If they don't like it then don't try to export to us.
I'm sure "cumbersome " doesn't even come close to describing what it's like to export our products to their countries.

We already gave away some of "our country our rules" with NAFTA, don't be surprised when international organizations start making more and more rules for us so we can remain members of the cool kids club.
 

Higgins

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Although sections may have been designed or manufactured in other countries, as well major parts and sub assemblies they are built to American Standards, and will be checked by American quality workers.
 

shoturtle

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There are not that many manufacturing jobs in the US as there where. Even with some companies coming back to the US to build big ticket items. And even those items will be assembled in the US, vs made in the US with the global supply chain.

So counting COO as jobs is a very popular media thing right now with 64 dollar of US goods creates 200k jobs. But what can you really buy that is made in the USA that you will give a presents this year will be under 100 dollars.

I totally want COO or where it is assemble labels to be on everything. It lets me know where things comes form, especially with food. As I know what has less of a carbon foot print form shipping. But I do not base all buying on COO, I base it on quality vs value.
 

WHT

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So counting COO as jobs is a very popular media thing right now with 64 dollar of US goods creates 200k jobs. But what can you really buy that is made in the USA that you will give a presents this year will be under 100 dollars.

Not sure what the first sentence means, but there are lots of goods made in the U.S.A. that sell for under $100. And, you would know that if you lived here. I wouldn't expect you to care about manufacturing in this country.
 

shoturtle

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I did live in the USA as I grew up there and service in the US Army. I just choose to move and become an ex patriot after 12 years of flying back and forth because of work. Been only full time in Germany for couple of months.

And most of the made in USA stuff under 64 dollars that is available are not great gift ideas unless it is food drinks or candy.

And the first sentence is the media push for American to spend 64 dollars on US made items to create 200k job. It is all over GJ and on ABC.
 
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