Interesting tool battery technical analysis video.

[5ubtle]

This YouTuber is doing 'in depth' tool battery analysis. Among other things, he is eavesdropping on the I2C bus to determine what the cpu is doing. This particular video is about determining if the new Milwaukee batteries do 'balance charging' (they do not).

 

[dnschmidt]

As long as my drill spins who cares?

 

[5ubtle]

@dnschmidt - I care. That should be obvious . I believe that there will be a few others here who also find this interesting.

 

[dnschmidt]

@dnschmidt - I care. That should be obvious . I believe that there will be a few others here who also find this interesting.

If you own at least 50 M18 tools, as I do, what does this information do to change what battery platform I have to use. If they have a mouse running inside of a wheel to generate electricity, and it gets the job done, so be it. I also have many Makita, DeWalt, Bosch and Metabo cordless tools as well. If any of these batteries die I have two choices: 1) If in warrantee have them exchanged or 2) take the dead ones and drop them in the recycle bin at the Home Depot. This information may be technically interesting, to some - not me, but it's completely irrelevant. I do agree with the video’s author that the High Output 8.0 and 12.0 batteries sucked big time (I went through at least 8 of them) and that’s why I’ve bought 10 of the 6.0 and 12.0 Forged batteries hoping that they last longer. But if they don’t what am I supposed to do about it? You use whatever battery system the tool calls for and that’s reality.

 

[5ubtle]

@dnschmidt This content obviously isn't for you. Why do you waste your time looking?

 

[dnschmidt]

@dnschmidt This content obviously isn't for you. Why do you waste your time looking?

This is not a personal attack on you so don't take it that way but why would ANYBODY waste their time looking? All I am pointing out is that regardless of what tool platform you have, Festool, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Ridgid, Makita, Mafell, Bosch, Metabo, Fine or whomever the truth is that you're stuck with whatever batteries they make for use with their tools. Makita is still using the same batteries they came out with 15 years ago which seems odd to me considering most others use 21700 cells today. Ford parts don't fit a Chevy. If he checked all the various batteries and concluded that brand X makes the best batteries that's news I can use and take into consideration for future tool purchases. Telling me that Milwaukee doesn't balance their cells is useless information since I have no control over what they do and I have so many Milwaukee tools that use Milwaukee batteries regardless of what's inside of them.

 

[5ubtle]

@dnschmidt Let's say, hypothetically, that I was interested in rebuilding my battery packs or maybe Frankensteining a battery pack for extra power? I might like to know what the OE Milwaukee controller is doing? To the average guy, yes, worthless information. To some people, very valuable. I, and probably a few others, have fitted Ford parts onto Chevys.

 

[WildBill]

This is not a personal attack on you so don't take it that way but why would ANYBODY waste their time looking? All I am pointing out is that regardless of what tool platform you have, Festool, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Ridgid, Makita, Mafell, Bosch, Metabo, Fine or whomever the truth is that you're stuck with whatever batteries they make for use with their tools. Makita is still using the same batteries they came out with 15 years ago which seems odd to me considering most others use 21700 cells today. Ford parts don't fit a Chevy. If he checked all the various batteries and concluded that brand X makes the best batteries that's news I can use and take into consideration for future tool purchases. Telling me that Milwaukee doesn't balance their cells is useless information since I have no control over what they do and I have so many Milwaukee tools that use Milwaukee batteries regardless of what's inside of them.

If the video shows you which Milwaukee batteries sucked the least it could be helpful, as you could buy those over the ones that sucked the most.

If you were interested in what brand tools to get and one had much better batteries the video would be interesting.

If you are just interested in battery tech or tech in general this video would be interesting.

Everybody is not in the exact same situation as you are. Or interested in the same things.

Why are you wasting your time polluting a thread you have no interest in? Why are you trying to discourage someone from posting something a lot of people might find interesting just because you don't? Just skip over it.

 

[zendriver]

This is not a personal attack on you so don't take it that way but why would ANYBODY waste their time looking? All I am pointing out is that regardless of what tool platform you have, Festool, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Ridgid, Makita, Mafell, Bosch, Metabo, Fine or whomever the truth is that you're stuck with whatever batteries they make for use with their tools. Makita is still using the same batteries they came out with 15 years ago which seems odd to me considering most others use 21700 cells today. Ford parts don't fit a Chevy. If he checked all the various batteries and concluded that brand X makes the best batteries that's news I can use and take into consideration for future tool purchases. Telling me that Milwaukee doesn't balance their cells is useless information since I have no control over what they do and I have so many Milwaukee tools that use Milwaukee batteries regardless of what's inside of them.

Holy ****, maybe people sometimes want to learn something new.

I didn’t know lion cells needed to be “balanced” charging. Or the battery csn lose overall capacity.

If it bothers you so much, maybe just move on?

 

[BrandonV]

I'm not surprised. Brands known for having the longest-lasting batteries, like Makita, tend to price them higher, while others treat their batteries more like consumables.

Ultimately, it all comes down to business strategy. Tool companies are motivated to design batteries that last just long enough to get through the warranty period but not so long that it impacts their profits. It's factored in either way.

 

[dnschmidt]

I'm not surprised. Brands known for having the longest-lasting batteries, like Makita, tend to price them higher, while others treat their batteries more like consumables.

Ultimately, it all comes down to business strategy. Tool companies are motivated to design batteries that last just long enough to get through the warranty period but not so long that it impacts their profits. It's factored in either way.

Are Makita's batteries really longer lasting? If there was some video proving that then I'd be impressed. The fact that their pricing is outrageous for very old battery technology that's clearly true. My Milwaukee 5.0 batteries have lasted just as long as my Makita 5.0 batteries. It's when you get into the high powered stuff, which Makita doesn't even produce, that the Milwaukee High Output 8.0 and 12.0 batteries failed. If you don't even make high powered batteries then you're guaranteed not to have them fail.

 

[BrandonV]

Are Makita's batteries really longer lasting? If there was some video proving that then I'd be impressed. The fact that their pricing is outrageous for very old battery technology that's clearly true. My Milwaukee 5.0 batteries have lasted just as long as my Makita 5.0 batteries. It's when you get into the high powered stuff, which Makita doesn't even produce, that the Milwaukee High Output 8.0 and 12.0 batteries failed. If you don't even make high powered batteries then you're guaranteed not to have them fail.

Fair point. It's mostly antidotal job site bickering on battery longevity and you know those Makita boys are jealous of the red tools.

I do feel due to my personal experience with the M12 batteries they're not made well. M18 seem equal to anything I've personally used.

I'm only really using Hilti & Ridgid these days.

 

[American Locomotive]

I've heard a lot of complaints about the higher capacity M18 batteries.

I bet at higher ampacities it becomes progressively more difficult to produce consistent cells. This is further compounded by very high draw tools that are going to beat on the batteries. Any little difference in internal resistance is going to be magnified by very high current draw. It would take very long until you have some cells that are more discharged than others.

With high capacity cells that are getting beat on, I would think balanced charging becomes more and more important.

Unfortunately Milwaukee seems unable or unwilling to implement cell balancing, and they fully comitted to "18v only" which is going to require their tools to beat on batteries to match the 40v and 60v tools.

 

[dnschmidt]

Fair point. It's mostly antidotal job site bickering on battery longevity and you know those Makita boys are jealous of the red tools.

I do feel due to my personal experience with the M12 batteries they're not made well. M18 seem equal to anything I've personally used.

I'm only really using Hilti & Ridgid these days.

The problem I have with the M12 is getting them out of the tool which can be quite a challenge. Also the 6.0 M12 are not good with respect to longevity. Milwaukee solved both of these M12 battery issues with the 2.5 compact and the 5.0XC upgraded batteries. The new Milwaukee 2.0 M12 Stubby only works well with these newer batteries as proven by the Torque Test Channel.

 

[BrandonV]

The problem I have with the M12 is getting them out of the tool which can be quite a challenge. Also the 6.0 M12 are not good with respect to longevity. Milwaukee solved both of these M12 battery issues with the 2.5 compact and the 5.0XC upgraded batteries. The new Milwaukee 2.0 M12 Stubby only works well with these newer batteries as proven by the Torque Test Channel.

Definitely noticed this. Tried removing the battery from a friend's M12 inflator and I damn near broke my wrist.

The XC5.0 battery worked great.

 

[dnschmidt]

I've heard a lot of complaints about the higher capacity M18 batteries.

I bet at higher ampacities it becomes progressively more difficult to produce consistent cells. This is further compounded by very high draw tools that are going to beat on the batteries. Any little difference in internal resistance is going to be magnified by very high current draw. It would take very long until you have some cells that are more discharged than others.

With high capacity cells that are getting beat on, I would think balanced charging becomes more and more important.

Unfortunately Milwaukee seems unable or unwilling to implement cell balancing, and they fully comitted to "18v only" which is going to require their tools to beat on batteries to match the 40v and 60v tools.

I'd agree with most of that. That's why I'm hoping the new FORGE batteries will prove superior to the older High Output. Only time will tell.

 

[BrandonV]

I'd agree with most of that. That's why I'm hoping the new FORGE batteries will prove superior to the older High Output. Only time will tell.

Yup. Even the creator of the video above basically talks about how the cell itself is more important than the fact of whether its balanced or not.

There are likely many unanswered questions. It's possible that Milwaukee encountered issues balancing the M18 packs. While it's easy to assume profit motives, there may actually be a technical or engineering reason why balancing isn't happening.

Then again... much larger companies than TTI/Milwaukee have intentionally done things like this.

 

[Steve_P]

I'm not surprised. Brands known for having the longest-lasting batteries, like Makita, tend to price them higher, while others treat their batteries more like consumables.

Ultimately, it all comes down to business strategy. Tool companies are motivated to design batteries that last just long enough to get through the warranty period but not so long that it impacts their profits. It's factored in either way.

As pointed out, the Makita fans here claim their batteries last the longest; but just because people claim it doesn't make it true. Yeah, maybe for them and a few friends it's been true so far, but that's not a statistically relevant sample size. People here claim all sorts of sh!t like this without proof to justify spending more $ on what they bought vs the competition. "If I paid more, it has to be better. And the rest of the sheeple are just buying what Home Depot wants them to." And the more it gets repeated....

Statistically proving one brand's battery superiority over many years would be extremely difficult, if not impossible; Consumer Reports doesn't even care to do this, they just test the tools themselves.

I didn't watch the video because I don't have any Milwaukee tools. But even if I did, the spoiler in the OP is more than enough info for me; as said, it's not like you can change this without designing your own battery.