Interior Framing with Y Bracing
- Thread starter jsyjud
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manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What the hell is that there for? Once the outer membrane is on, that type of bracing serves little to no purpose. Where are you and what are your winds like? That's a very interesting approach to post building methodology.
Wait, is that a combination of 4x4 and 6x6 posts? Are there some 4x6 posts in there too? it's so hard to tell from the picture.
Wait, is that a combination of 4x4 and 6x6 posts? Are there some 4x6 posts in there too? it's so hard to tell from the picture.
glider
Well-known member
I would remove them and go on with your framing.
LWB
Well-known member
Are they not structural and there for racking? I have the same in my small garage.
OP, are you taking the framing all the way up and adding a double top plate?
OP, are you taking the framing all the way up and adding a double top plate?
jack stand
Well-known member
Just miter cut the tops of your *studs. It looks like there's only 2 to cut with a sq cut one in the middle of each post "bay".
Those diagonal gussets will aid in the building's stability and do a lot to strengthen the top load bearing beam.
Looks like a nice (although a little different) job.
With your use of "Y" bracing, I'm guessing that this is new to you. Carefully measure your layout especially if you're using 4' or 8' material for the inside wall covering (plywood or drywall). You need to be sure to have a stud where your sheets end.
* above and below the diagonal
Those diagonal gussets will aid in the building's stability and do a lot to strengthen the top load bearing beam.
Looks like a nice (although a little different) job.
With your use of "Y" bracing, I'm guessing that this is new to you. Carefully measure your layout especially if you're using 4' or 8' material for the inside wall covering (plywood or drywall). You need to be sure to have a stud where your sheets end.
* above and below the diagonal
LWB
Well-known member
I would follow what Jack stand said above. It makes sense to me. I'm Doing 2 x 2 framing and 1.5" of foam for insulation.
Are you looking to put plywood on the walls?
Are you looking to put plywood on the walls?
jack stand
Well-known member
That's not only more work but it would weaken the structure.
Michigan, snow!
Both 2x12's have no bearing and rely total on the 6 structural screws with 3 of them within inches of the end of the board.
Every 4th truss bears on a post, the 3 in-between are relying on that bare minimum (without the diagonals) beam.
It's not so much the 2 2x12's, it's the way they're poorly supported.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What are you planning for interior sheathing? I imagine fully sheathing the interior with plywood or osb would offer car more racking strength than those.
Youngandfree
Well-known member
Why aren't your beams "on the posts"?
Easiest seems like just frame a new wall and leave that space for insulation and lose the 4" around the perimeter.
Easiest seems like just frame a new wall and leave that space for insulation and lose the 4" around the perimeter.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The purlins and the metal siding provide all the racking resistance needed. The 2x12's contribute little or nothing, given how high on the wall they are. The diagonal members contribute zero +/- 1 to the snow load. That all comes from the vertical posts.
I understand what your saying and it makes sense. Those diagonals are transferring the load from the beam between the posts to the post. Thank you!
If you just need nailers for interior walls I'd consider running 2x4s on side to bottom of the header and flat against the 4x4 posts. This will bring everything flush with corner posts and the headers and give you effective 6" walls for insulation. Leave the existing framing there and just go over it.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
By only a very small amount, the real load is being barred by the ledger screws though the 2x12's into the posts. Those diagonals are doing basically nothing now that the walls are on.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Looks like the 4x6 have the wider side perpendicular to the all already
My bad, thought they were 4x4s. Then no need to add a 2x4 at posts, no?
jack stand
Well-known member
You apparently don't have much experience with pole buildings. 28ga. metal is **** to rely on for permanent racking.
Ideally there would be a 2x4 from the top of one post to the bottom of the next @ each corner.
Those braces are doing much more than you know.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I like the suggestion of interior purlins. I'd consider that and then I'd probably fill in along the posts to help transfer the load of the beams better
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yep, I've heard this argument before. I've also seen countless post structures without such bracing that have stood the test of time. I'm just an internet voice, what could I possibly know? I also happen to know a little bit about physics and the properties of wood.
Strapping it horizontally is probably easiest. Filling in what’s there now will use less wood but take longer.
Sheathing the inside with plywood would the nuclear option for racking and sturdy walls. I would not, but it would not be wrong.
Taking the braces off is a waste of time and generally not a good idea. It will weaken the structure. If you want full benefit, scab on some 2X butted against the ends of the braces. Nail well.
I’ve built several structures using this technique.
geobarns.com
Stiff like concrete.
Sheathing the inside with plywood would the nuclear option for racking and sturdy walls. I would not, but it would not be wrong.
Taking the braces off is a waste of time and generally not a good idea. It will weaken the structure. If you want full benefit, scab on some 2X butted against the ends of the braces. Nail well.
I’ve built several structures using this technique.
Why We Build with Diagonal Framing – Geobarns
geobarns.com
Stiff like concrete.
Viper98912
Well-known member
Looks like you might just have to do it the slow way, which is cutting each stud one by one and toe nailing each one in. Attach a 2x to the floor, and measure one by one and cut the angle to fit into the Y's and nail it in. While building the walls on the floor is faster, it won't work in your situation.
I previously had to frame out part of a basement wall this way (cut each stud one by one) because the joists had too much variation in them. And then trying to stand a wall up with the diagonal length being just slightly taller than the ceiling, just wasn't going to happen. I also didn't want to force it in with a sledgehammer and cause the wood flooring above to flex and/or ripple-buckle. So I measured each stud one by one and cut it to the exact length it needed to be for the position it was going in. It was slow, but it honestly wasn't that bad at all. Once you get the hang of it, it goes by fairly smoothly.
I previously had to frame out part of a basement wall this way (cut each stud one by one) because the joists had too much variation in them. And then trying to stand a wall up with the diagonal length being just slightly taller than the ceiling, just wasn't going to happen. I also didn't want to force it in with a sledgehammer and cause the wood flooring above to flex and/or ripple-buckle. So I measured each stud one by one and cut it to the exact length it needed to be for the position it was going in. It was slow, but it honestly wasn't that bad at all. Once you get the hang of it, it goes by fairly smoothly.
this is easy to do , doesn't affect the original framing and once you get going, you'll realize it's the way to do it
Yes. ^^^^^^^
firebirdparts
Well-known member
I think I would also miter cut the studs to length. That is clearly not the "best" way. Rather, it's the easy way, but I think it's okay here.
The "best way" is take a diagonal out, put up studs to the top, then put the diagonal back in with piecework. That's the old-timey way of frame buildings before people used plywood. If you were planning to sheath the interior with OSB then you would leave that out. This gives a wall with normal strength in all the directions you expect, in case you want to hang something heavy on it. I don't think you really need it, though. Those diagonals are very strong and they'll hold it reasonably still.
The "best way" is take a diagonal out, put up studs to the top, then put the diagonal back in with piecework. That's the old-timey way of frame buildings before people used plywood. If you were planning to sheath the interior with OSB then you would leave that out. This gives a wall with normal strength in all the directions you expect, in case you want to hang something heavy on it. I don't think you really need it, though. Those diagonals are very strong and they'll hold it reasonably still.
Viper98912
Well-known member
Looks great! I recommend placing another stud in the corner on the right hand wall so you have something to screw your drywall/osb/etc material into.
LWB
Well-known member
Looks great!
What is your spacing on the wall on the right? I assume that is a gable wall? Is there a post just out of the picture? What's the insulation plan? Are you going to leave that empty space between the stud wall and the girts empty? If using fiberglass or cellulose, make sure it doesn't touch the concrete or it will wick water.
But the side wall looks good to me.
I wouldn't have built the barn with the roof being supported by truss screws into the posts, but if an engineer signed off on it...
But the side wall looks good to me.
I wouldn't have built the barn with the roof being supported by truss screws into the posts, but if an engineer signed off on it...