Eventually in the fall I am going to remodel our laundry room which will require gutting it to the studs. Its the only fully interior room in the house and thinking about beefing it up to make a storm room. Its about 9 x 14. One wall is concrete block, the opposite wall is shared with a bathroom so it has mud job tiled wall on the back of it. The other 2 long walls are typical 2x4 and drywall. Its on the bottom floor and the house uses truss like beams for the second floor and its on a concrete foundation. The laundry will have a large sink in addition to the washer/dryer and I am building in a deep shelved "butler" pantry of sorts for food and kitchen ware storage. So I am thinking this seems like a good "box" to go to in case of hurricane or tornado emergency. We would be able to ride it out a bit with water and food. The door on one side goes to the garage so its already an exterior door. Thinking of using another exterior door on the other side for strength. So what I am contemplating is what to use to skin the inside with? Plywood? 5/8 drywall? Hardi sheet? Do you think any of that will make a difference in a storm to reinforce the room? Whatever I use I have to be able to make it look like a finished surface not a barn. Its going to have tiled floors, granite counter top and some finished cabinets and "white / gray" is the color scheme. Ideas?
Interior Storm Safe Room
- Thread starter gregs
- Start date
cmandp
Well-known member
Giving us here some more details would be good. Where you live to start, like do you live in Florida right near the Gulf or ocean or in Iowa, California, etc? Flooding potential, etc. You (we) need that to get started on what standard you should build to as far as weather goes.
I think one issue you might need to consider is how well is the 1st floor attached to the foundation and roof attached to the walls. Typically houses in places that can experience hurricanes or tornadoes are built to stay together in much higher winds than in my neck of the woods.
I think one issue you might need to consider is how well is the 1st floor attached to the foundation and roof attached to the walls. Typically houses in places that can experience hurricanes or tornadoes are built to stay together in much higher winds than in my neck of the woods.
jives
Well-known member
The FEMA website has all the info you will need on creating your own safe room.
www.fema.gov
Safe Room Publications and Resources
The free safe room resources listed below have been developed by FEMA's Building Science Branch.
www.fema.gov
Thanks for the link, I will take a look at that.The FEMA website has all the info you will need on creating your own safe room.
Safe Room Publications and Resources
The free safe room resources listed below have been developed by FEMA's Building Science Branch.
Can add hurricane ties for the roof and probably find a way to anchor the floor in further.
On a budget, I'd probably do 3/4" plywood and then 5/8" drywall over top on the interior of it. Glued/screwed so it stays together. Without going full bunker (steel/concrete) you aren't going to gain that much more protection but at least the room would protect from some debris and stay together a bit better.
On a budget, I'd probably do 3/4" plywood and then 5/8" drywall over top on the interior of it. Glued/screwed so it stays together. Without going full bunker (steel/concrete) you aren't going to gain that much more protection but at least the room would protect from some debris and stay together a bit better.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I built a tornado shelter using plans from the forestry service. The door is 3 layers of 3/4 ply, skinned on both sides with 18 gauge sheet metal and locked shut with three 16" gate pins. It is incomparable to a regular exterior door
www.fpl.fs.fed.us
Forest Products Laboratory - USDA Forest Service
Web site for the United States Forest Service, Forest Products Laboratory. Part of Forest Service Research & Development, serving the United States and the world.
nadogail
Well-known member
Strong ties to the rescue, keeping the walls attached to each other and to to the deck and overhead will be the problem. How about monolithic concrete walls and overhead?
Good idea on the Simpson strong ties. Wont take much to add those along with some additional connectors to the slab and walls to tie it together. And all that can be put inside the walls.
Its in the bottom floor of a 2 story house. The ceiling is the bottom cord of "truss style" beams and is currently sheet rock. The top cord / 2nd story floor is plywood. The truss style beams are probably 16" tall.
Its in the bottom floor of a 2 story house. The ceiling is the bottom cord of "truss style" beams and is currently sheet rock. The top cord / 2nd story floor is plywood. The truss style beams are probably 16" tall.
duneslider
Well-known member
Make sure to use plywood and not OSB, plywood is better for impact resistance than OSB. They say 1/2" plywood will stop a 2x4 traveling at 35mph. 3/4 ply will offer pretty good protection. I think osb needs to be 30-40% thicker to do the same job when it comes to impact protection. Like mentioned even thin sheet metal makes a big difference to impact protection.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Id atleast put a ton of fasteners through the bottom plate to the concrete. Then I'd sheath the walls with plywood, glue and screw. Drywall over it.
Hurricane clips before the plywood and use the proper hardware.
All for a start.
Hurricane clips before the plywood and use the proper hardware.
All for a start.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Much better than just fastening the plate down would be straps attaching the studs down. I used Simpson htt5's with epoxied 5/8 rod
rayra
Well-known member
Definitely have to beef up the strength of the walls. And the ties of the wall to floors. You'll want ot skin the interior with at least 3/4" ply an screw it down at close intervals. How much interior space can you afford to use in that room? wihtut running out of room for the appliances I mean. Metal clad exterior / fire rated doors, that match your interior doors, will be costly to order.
Were it me I'd even consider a double lamination of plywood to the interior of the stud walls. And I'd probably use a lot of construction adhesive between studs and plywood and between sheets of plywood.
But I wouldn't do this for hurricanes. I'd do this if I lived in areas prone to tornadoes. Hurricanes you have plenty of time to get out of dodge. I wouldn't PLAN on using such a room for something like a hurricane. The room would be for the sudden advent of a tornado.
Were it me I'd even consider a double lamination of plywood to the interior of the stud walls. And I'd probably use a lot of construction adhesive between studs and plywood and between sheets of plywood.
But I wouldn't do this for hurricanes. I'd do this if I lived in areas prone to tornadoes. Hurricanes you have plenty of time to get out of dodge. I wouldn't PLAN on using such a room for something like a hurricane. The room would be for the sudden advent of a tornado.
The FEMA doc that Jives posted is the authoritative source down to specs on the size, type and placement of the J-bolts into the slab. The shelter should not be tied into the rest of the framing of the house—-when I asked about this I was told that is so the shelter will still be standing even if the surrounding house gets leveled. Our current house was supposed to have an integral safe room (our large walk in pantry) and I even took the time to provide the FEMA doc to our idiot project manager and by the time he got around to thinking about it—I’d been asking repeatedly—it was too late—the house was already framed.
Completely agree with that.
On the 9' width its pretty tight with the appliances. I could probably use finished plywood and no drywall on the sides. It will be covered with cabinets or appliances anyway with little area exposed.
rayra
Well-known member
Yes, stripping the drywall will allow you to recoup some of the thickness of the plywood. Maybe wallpaper. or a 1/4" drywall skin.
Keep in mind that you should likewise sheath the ceiling, You want a cube that's as strong as you can manage, all 6 sides.
Keep in mind that you should likewise sheath the ceiling, You want a cube that's as strong as you can manage, all 6 sides.
I'd be concerned with having too much fastener and not enough concrete if you overdo that.
Of course, I am not an engineer...
matt_i
Well-known member
For some reason I recall 16ga sheet metal as part of an "entry level" design, that would take a lot more abuse than plywood alone which could splinter.
Having an inward-opening door to avoid having to push out thru a debris pile (or await help to clear it!!) would also be important in my mind.
Having an inward-opening door to avoid having to push out thru a debris pile (or await help to clear it!!) would also be important in my mind.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
And inward swinging door can be blown in. I'd rather be stuck for a while or have to use tools to get out than have that happen
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Online tips for retrofitting your home for wind-resistance are available from the Florida Department of Community Affairs (FDCA)
Source of above @
Protection from Extreme Wind | National Wind Institute | TTU
www.depts.ttu.edu
Feralghoul88
Well-known member
I never did understand this kind of thing. My significant other is paranoid about storms and wants to have a safe room, but where we live we only have tornados and with the statistics on tornadoes I cant justify spending any money or time on building something like that. If you actually did end up needing it I feel like the chance that you would then just end up trapped inside of the box until you hopefully get rescued. In the event of a hurricane if you get trapped there is a significant risk of high water and then you end up getting drowned in your expensive box. I think for tornadoes ill just continue to sleep during the storms and roll my dice and if i had to deal with hurricanes i would likely just leave town and take that time to look for property that isnt in a place that hurricanes affect me this much.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
We all have different priorities and concerns. I am far from paranoid,but when I moved to a house with no basement and that has a relatively high risk of tornadoes, I decided a few grand was worth it, plus it was a fun project, and it gave me a secure spot to put my safe instead of having it out in the open in my garage.
I'll gladly take getting trapped for a bit than killed in bed.
Feralghoul88
Well-known member
Trapped for long enough, without a way to communicate and in the right climate means a slow agonizing death.....I will take quick death in my sleep thanks. The average deaths per year is like 94....I think there are more important things to worry about
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
All of my neighbors and family know I have it. We won't be trapped forever
You prioritize things differently than me. Nothing wrong with that. For me, it was on my mind and solvable for a few grand. I can think of far less responsible ways to spend that money
For me its taking advantage of the rooms location and the plan to do a remodel of it. I haven't had the time to research the attached links yet, but it cant add for than 2k to the project for anchors and plywood. Sure its probably once in a lifetime use, but who knows? We are in our forever house but things change and its got to be an added sales "feature" to those "paranoid" people you speak of.
And we are high and dry, so no chance of drowning in the box. And I am very sure the first thing all the neighbors are going to do after the storm is to start checking on everybody. And with the equipment around it wont take long to get people out.
And we are high and dry, so no chance of drowning in the box. And I am very sure the first thing all the neighbors are going to do after the storm is to start checking on everybody. And with the equipment around it wont take long to get people out.
CraigStu
Well-known member
I think this is the best overall guide. For a new construction wall it is easy to tie the studs to the bottom plate more than normally strong but you are dealing w/ an existing wall. So I would choose one of several types of hold downs like used in a garage built on a slab to attach the bottom plate to the floor. Some type of Simpson ties plate to stud, and then construction adhesive and screws to attach at least one layer of 3/4 plywood to bottom plate and studs. Also both doors should open into your shelter room so debris doesn't pile up outside and prevent you getting the door to open. I think your largest problem is the ceiling being existing truss style beams. I picture high winds, knocking off the second floor and then getting under that ceiling which may be 30'x30' (depending on overall house size) and ripping your 9x14 ceiling right off. I don't have an answer to that unfortunately so I will be following this thread to see what others suggest.
I was thinking about that very same thing. I have part of the ceiling down in the room so I can see how its constructed. I'd hate to lose any ceiling height, but maybe cut the nails loose from the top plates of the walls so there not connected anymore. Then frame and build another ceiling for the room independent of everything else.
CraigStu
Well-known member
I like that idea. Just need to be sure building code won't give you a problem due to the reduced ceiling height. I am following this thread because I am thinking about a similar room in a corner of our basement.
Well, technically not a ton but I'd maybe one in every stud spacing.
rayra
Well-known member
That's idiotic. You pre-register your shelter location with local emergency services. That's common in 'tornado alley' locations. There's lots of ways to communicate / signal from such shelters. As well as having relations outside the area primed to inquire / alert. Your entire imagined scenarios of dying in the box are horsecrap.
But you keep right on arguing it, instead of providing any useful input to the subject of the thread of OP's issue / question.
/idiots not evacuating, living below sea level, climbing into an attic with no way out in the face of Katrina floodwaters notwithstanding.
stillnostrebor
Well-known member
The FEMA-320 guide is the one you want for reference specific to residential and retrofit residential designs. FEMA-361 is the commercial guideline and will not translate well to your construction types.
Tornado design is definitely not just a matter of guessing and overkill. Structural isolation as mentioned above is just one example of the specific things necessary for success. Understanding flying debris (missile) resistance is another that is often misunderstood. There has been extensive testing and specific engineering effort put into the designs provided by FEMA, and the designs are vetted yearly by a committee of engineers who specifically work in this field. I have participated in testing, post-event site evaluation processes, and a bit of this committee work, and can attest this is quite an undertaking by the foremost in the field and industry. It is a fantastic resource.
There should be guidelines for tornado, hurricane, and combination designs depending on your application. Be sure to choose the correct application as the loading conditions are not the same between the two.
Tornado design is definitely not just a matter of guessing and overkill. Structural isolation as mentioned above is just one example of the specific things necessary for success. Understanding flying debris (missile) resistance is another that is often misunderstood. There has been extensive testing and specific engineering effort put into the designs provided by FEMA, and the designs are vetted yearly by a committee of engineers who specifically work in this field. I have participated in testing, post-event site evaluation processes, and a bit of this committee work, and can attest this is quite an undertaking by the foremost in the field and industry. It is a fantastic resource.
There should be guidelines for tornado, hurricane, and combination designs depending on your application. Be sure to choose the correct application as the loading conditions are not the same between the two.
There are also companies who specialize in storm shelters for existing houses. Neighbor up the street put in one last year in their basement, was designed to go right inside the existing closet space that was thwre and you have no idea its there until you open the door. Install was under a day for the 4 man crew
https://atlassaferooms.com/
We arent in the heart of tornado alley but i believe there was some family history with storms that made the piece of mind worth it.
https://atlassaferooms.com/
We arent in the heart of tornado alley but i believe there was some family history with storms that made the piece of mind worth it.
Alchase
Well-known member
I live in Oklahoma, this is what we do. The local Emergency Services have a list of houses with Safe Rooms or Shelters.
I have a 12'x4'x6' in-ground Shelter under the middle bay of a three car garage. It works great. Doubles as a maintenance pit, LOL
Mine was installed when the house was built in 2015. There are many companies that retrofit Shelters and Safe Rooms, and only your willingness to spend decides how elaborate they can get. And there are some really nice ones!
I saw a pretty cool Storm Shelter from Vortex Vaults that is under your bed. You press a button, your bed rises and a steal shelter unfolds.
https://vortexvaults.com/pages/features
Monza Harry
Well-known member
Is the outside walls of the wooden walls able to be refinished economically (the tiled one probably not so much but other measures could be invoked +/-)? Then sheathing the outside and inside should allow you to be able to reduce the required thickness inside your room [ie; 1/2"-5/8"(?) inside and out] 1/4" drywall and some plaster to add some toughness. As for your ceiling you could then construct a separate unattached [from the above 2nd storey floor] ceiling to the room. For the doors both of the concerns seem reasonable to me, so is a [4 sided tracked] pocket door feasible? Then what countermeasures would be required? Just the thoughts that come to my mind reading this with all of the seemingly helpful posts. Harry
Greenlawnracing
Well-known member
I also live in Oklahoma. As I don't have a basement, I have the garage hole that Alchase referenced. I did register it with the city in case I'm stuck in in for a while.
As Logan mentioned, companies do make these. A friend of mine has this exact one, certainly more comfortable if you have room for it. I've seen them at HD as well.
As Logan mentioned, companies do make these. A friend of mine has this exact one, certainly more comfortable if you have room for it. I've seen them at HD as well.
Ground Zero Storm Shelters - Storm Shelters & Tornado Shelters in the US
Ground Zero Storm Shelters are the most innovative storm shelter systems on the market today. We deliver and install shelters wherever tornadoes happen in the US.
www.groundzeroshelters.com
CN Spots
Well-known member
We have that Ground Zero in-ground one as well. Used it several times. It's nice that it doesn't take up any space in the home but I can see that type being an issue for someone with disabilities or the elderly. It's a little challenging to get in and out of.
I never worried about getting trapped in there. If a tornado came through, the debris from my house would be somebody else's problem. And I don't know how be we can actually get a cell phone signal in there.
I never worried about getting trapped in there. If a tornado came through, the debris from my house would be somebody else's problem. And I don't know how be we can actually get a cell phone signal in there.
Alchase
Well-known member
When the wife and I were trying to decide on which shelter to get, the choices were so many if was a bit overwhelming because we knew nothing about tornado's. We see a lot of them in-ground out away from the house. The wife wanted one of those until I convinced her we really did not want to run out into the on-coming tornado to get to our shelter, LOL.
I have had to use our shelter 4 times in seven years. The wife goes back and forth to see our Grandkids in Washington a lot, so was never home during the bad storms, until last month. We had an EF2 that was on the ground heading towards us. We hit the shelter then I realized I had not vacuumed it out in a while. I entered first and did my best to knock down the cobwebs before she ran into them in the dark. It would not have been pretty making the choice between riding out an EF2 or dealing with my spider freaked out wife in an enclosed Tornado Shelter LOL.
The house still made some nasty groaning sounds, and the hail was intense. What was the EF2 re-spawned as an EF3 two miles to our East.
The Shelter definately has serverd it purpose well, and we have been exceptionally lucky.
I have had to use our shelter 4 times in seven years. The wife goes back and forth to see our Grandkids in Washington a lot, so was never home during the bad storms, until last month. We had an EF2 that was on the ground heading towards us. We hit the shelter then I realized I had not vacuumed it out in a while. I entered first and did my best to knock down the cobwebs before she ran into them in the dark. It would not have been pretty making the choice between riding out an EF2 or dealing with my spider freaked out wife in an enclosed Tornado Shelter LOL.
The house still made some nasty groaning sounds, and the hail was intense. What was the EF2 re-spawned as an EF3 two miles to our East.
The Shelter definately has serverd it purpose well, and we have been exceptionally lucky.