Internet in detached garage

[C91x]

I've spent a good amount of time searching and I'm still not sure whats my best course of action.

Here's my specs.
Cat6 cable is ran to the shop
The Cat6 cable just terminates in the wall of the house garage.
Shop is approx 175 from the house and would guess 250+ to the wife router.
I get weak wifi in the quarter of my shop that is closest to the house.
I'm rural and the best I can get is 9-10mb dl and need every bit of it.


Questions
-Am I wrong to assume that if I wire the Cat6 to the house hard line and then run a separate wifi router, i will have to manually switch the wifi network each time i'm in the shop? Is there a way around this?

-Do wifi repeaters split you speed in half?

-Does anyone have the best plan of attack for me. I would like to be able to walk out to the shop and get service without touching anything on my phone or even having a separate network.

 

[bullnerd]

Ditto here too.( I didn't run wire yet though,but have conduit for it)

I have an old good router from my house also, If I can use it.

I cant speak for OP, but speak slow and use big words, the terminology is foreign to me.

 

[leebo]

If you could get the CAT 6 plugged into the back of the wife's router. You would have a hard wired connection in your shop. Cat 5 is only good for length's of 300' or less.
Cat 6 is longer but I'm not sure how much. Sounds like you should be good for the distance with what you have. Also, assuming your wife's router has a switch built in.
Switch is basically a internet splitter. Most routers are combos now. Look to see if there are multiple ports in the back of the router. Then once you got the hard wired connection to your shop you could add another wireless router and have plenty of strength. Repeaters are an option and no they don't cut your internet in half.
your gonna need to learn to terminate RJ45 jacks and plugs to terminate the Cat 6 ends.
easy enough and Lowe's sells everything you need for that.

 

[Millwrong]

Since it sounds like you have a fair sized house, I'd suggest a wifi mesh system. They typically come with 3 nodes (2 for either end of the house), and I'd have the Cat6 providing data for the the node you'd place in the shop. This way, you only have one network and one password so you never have to worry about it.

 

[B-Well]

You can connect 2 wireless routers together via Cat5/6 and mask the second one, thus making a large coverage system with single User name and PW and seamless hand off between the two.
Message me if you would like more information

 

[trashmanssd]

Last 2 answers will get you what you want and no need to manually change networks. I have google mesh with 4 units 3 in house 1 in detached garage on a 200 foot cat6 run and it works perfectly.

 

[Kburk09]

another option is wireless radios. I use a couple ubiquity rocket, point to point radios to shoot internet to my shop. They are fairly cheap... run off PoE.. and also easy to configure with plenty of youtube diy support. Plugged into port on home wifi router, then into a cheap powered switch, then through the wall and the radio is mounted under the eave on the corner of my house. It shoots directly at another radio on the corner of my shop. cat 5 jumper runs into the building into another wifi router.

Sounds daunting but actually was a much cleaner and easier install than running cable and i would be up against the length restrictions. Plenty of speed and reliability. I run wifi as well as 4 PoE HD cameras 24/7

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I've spent a good amount of time searching and I'm still not sure whats my best course of action.

Here's my specs.
Cat6 cable is ran to the shop
The Cat6 cable just terminates in the wall of the house garage.
Shop is approx 175 from the house and would guess 250+ to the wife router.
I get weak wifi in the quarter of my shop that is closest to the house.
I'm rural and the best I can get is 9-10mb dl and need every bit of it.

No surprise on the weak signal @ 250' Unless you have a high end AP with beamwidth forming capabilities, youre guaranteed to get lousy coverage at that distance.

Questions
-Am I wrong to assume that if I wire the Cat6 to the house hard line and then run a separate wifi router, i will have to manually switch the wifi network each time i'm in the shop? Is there a way around this?

Yes you are wrong. If you setup both access points to have the same EXACT SSID and Password, then your hosts should seamlessly roam between the access points without you having to do anything.

-Do wifi repeaters split you speed in half?

Depends on the model. Some do, others use 5Ghz for the backhaul and transmit only on 2.4Ghz. But you already have an ethernet line ran to the shop so there is no point in looking at repeaters.

Buy an access point or wireless router and use that. IF you choose the wireless router method, make sure to turn off DHCP otherwise you will have conflicts.

-Does anyone have the best plan of attack for me. I would like to be able to walk out to the shop and get service without touching anything on my phone or even having a separate network.

you already do. Buy a wireless router and plug it into the CAT6 then set it up.

What make and model router do you have in the house?

If you could get the CAT 6 plugged into the back of the wife's router. You would have a hard wired connection in your shop. Cat 5 is only good for length's of 300' or less.
Cat 6 is longer but I'm not sure how much. Sounds like you should be good for the distance with what you have. Also, assuming your wife's router has a switch built in.
Switch is basically a internet splitter. Most routers are combos now. Look to see if there are multiple ports in the back of the router. Then once you got the hard wired connection to your shop you could add another wireless router and have plenty of strength. Repeaters are an option and no they don't cut your internet in half.
your gonna need to learn to terminate RJ45 jacks and plugs to terminate the Cat 6 ends.
easy enough and Lowe's sells everything you need for that.

The ethernet spec for max distance is actually 100m which is 328 feet and its the same for CAT5, 5e, and 6. The spec calls for 90m of wire run and 10m of patch cords(5m on each end).

SOME repeaters do cut the speed in half. Depends on the model.

another option is wireless radios. I use a couple ubiquity rocket, point to point radios to shoot internet to my shop. They are fairly cheap... run off PoE.. and also easy to configure with plenty of youtube diy support. Plugged into port on home wifi router, then into a cheap powered switch, then through the wall and the radio is mounted under the eave on the corner of my house. It shoots directly at another radio on the corner of my shop. cat 5 jumper runs into the building into another wifi router.

Sounds daunting but actually was a much cleaner and easier install than running cable and i would be up against the length restrictions. Plenty of speed and reliability. I run wifi as well as 4 PoE HD cameras 24/7

OP already has a cable ran to the shop so there is no point in doing a wireless P2P. No need to confuse the guy with unnecessary stuff.

 

[green.bubbly]

If you setup both access points to have the same exact SSID and Password, then your hosts should seamlessly roam between the access points without you having to do anything.

Interesting.

 

[Fasthotrod]

I recently switched over to an ASUS AiMesh system at the house. I have two ASUS routers that talk to each other wireless, and it broadcasts from both routers as a single network so there isn't any switching between separate networks. My plan is to ultimately have two in the house plus one in the shop that is connected via CAT-6.

More info here:

https://www.asus.com/us/AiMesh/

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[C91x]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a google TPlink OnHub AC1900 wifi router.

I need to read more about masking the second router. I have NETGEAR N750 wifi router that I'll never use so so this is a cheap option. I currently have no idea how to set it up but with help i could figure it out. Also unless I'm reading it wrong for this to work the cat6 to the router in the garage has to be getting its feed from the out port on the house router. I will have to run an Ethernet wire from the office to the side of the house that the shop wire comes into.

From what I read on the mesh system it seems I can pull the feed from any ethernet port in the house which makes this a much easier system to install for me but i'll have to purchase the google mesh puck for the garage.

 

[75gmck25]

Two routers with the same SSID and password will probably work fine most of the time, but there is some risk of conflicting addresses for the routers and computers.

This may provide some additional information that is useful. I'm trying to consolidate and simplify, so bear with me if you find anything incorrect - just post a follow-up clarification/correction.

Most home routers (including your cable modem) create a network with a set of private IP addresses (which are similar in function to phone numbers), and then route traffic from these private IPs to the actual IP/web addresses on the internet. This provides privacy on your home network, but allows all computers to access the internet through the router. Many home routers use IP addresses in the 192.168.0.x range, and assign themselves the address 192.168.0.1.
You can verify this by typing 192.168.0.1 into a web browser, which will usually bring up the login screen from your router.

Most routers also act as a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) server, which allows them to issue private IP addresses and other key information to each home network computer. For example, the first home computer connected may be assigned the address 192.168.0.3, and so on. However, this is "dynamic," so there is no guarantee that a computer will get the same IP address each time it connects.

- When you put two (or more) routers in your house and they have the exact same login settings, its best to configure a fixed (or static) IP address for each router. For example, router 1 would be 192.168.0.1 and router 2 would be 192.168.0.2. That ensures the router addresses don't conflict.
- It is also a good idea to turn off the DHCP capability on one of the routers, so that only one issues IP addresses to computers.

If you want to know your computer's current setup, open up a windows Command window, and type "ipconfig/all" (don't type the quotes).

- Then scroll down to the area under the heading "Wireless LAN Adapter."
- IPV4 address is your current private address on your home network.
- Default Gateway address is the address of your router - your gateway to the outside world.
- DHCP server address is as explained above
- DNS (or Domain Name Server) address is one or more computers that translate a web URL (e.g., www.google.com) into a numerical internet IP address on the internet. It probably points to DNS servers operated by your cable company, but it can use other sources.
- Lease obtained and Lease expired - you were issued your private IP adress on the first date. If you don't login again before the end of the lease it will expire and the address might be issued to other computers.

Bruce

 

[Falcon67]

If you setup both access points to have the same exact SSID and Password, then your hosts should seamlessly roam between the access points without you having to do anything.

This is SOP. I'm at a university, I have the same SSIDs on 255 APs. In the OPs case, even if he used a different SSID in the shop @ 175 distance, once any devices had the wifi parameters stored they will move between networks with no additional effort. I don't tell my phone or home laptop that I'm at work, or home, or in the shop, or at Best Buy or etc. As above for DHCP for home grade stuff. I use Ubiquity with a Cloud Key, so they self-manage that issue using the GPON fiber router as the DHCP server.

Gotta throw those buzzwords in there to make people think you know sumpin'.

 

[C91x]

This is SOP. I'm at a university, I have the same SSIDs on 255 APs. In the OPs case, even if he used a different SSID in the shop @ 175 distance, once any devices had the wifi parameters stored they will move between networks with no additional effort. I don't tell my phone or home laptop that I'm at work, or home, or in the shop, or at Best Buy or etc. As above for DHCP for home grade stuff. I use Ubiquity with a Cloud Key, so they self-manage that issue using the GPON fiber router as the DHCP server.

Gotta throw those buzzwords in there to make people think you know sumpin'.

I don't understand most of what you said but right now my phone will fight to stay connected to the wifi when I'm in the garage even though the data is pretty much nonexistent. I'm worried it will still try to remain connected to that even though I have a strong signal from a different router. Thats why i'm wanting one single network

 

[Bretny]

Everyone is going to tell you you need a mesh system. I did a ethernet power adapter to mine. Im close enough to stay connected to the garage when in the house some times and the other way around. For the price of a mesh setup i can manualy change routers in my phone.

Yours is for enough away you may not connect to the house when in the garage. So it will switch automatically.

 

[csi123]

This is SOP. I'm at a university, I have the same SSIDs on 255 APs. In the OPs case, even if he used a different SSID in the shop @ 175 distance, once any devices had the wifi parameters stored they will move between networks with no additional effort. I don't tell my phone or home laptop that I'm at work, or home, or in the shop, or at Best Buy or etc. As above for DHCP for home grade stuff. I use Ubiquity with a Cloud Key, so they self-manage that issue using the GPON fiber router as the DHCP server.

Gotta throw those buzzwords in there to make people think you know sumpin'.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Your university most likely didn't just go out and buy 255 wifi routers at the local best buy. Those access points they use are designed to work as a group and has the ability to know whether a particular client can be potentially connected to a stronger signal. So they can "boot" a client off an access point to force it to connect to another one with a stronger signal.

You are not going to get the same thing if you just buy 2 off-the-shelf wifi routers or an extender. The decision to switch from a wifi network to another normally entirely depends on the client implementation. For security reason most wifi clients will hang on to a weak signal even if there is a stronger signal.

 

[Showkey]

Everyone is going to tell you you need a mesh system. I did a ethernet power adapter to mine. Im close enough to stay connected to the garage when in the house some times and the other way around. For the price of a mesh setup i can manualy change routers in my phone.

Yours is for enough away you may not connect to the house when in the garage. So it will switch automatically.

Wire vs wireless to outbuildings and surrounding property.
ethernet power adapter Can work but often at a compromise of speed and bandwidth. Mesh solves both of those issues.
This has been hashed and rehashed dozens of times. Withthe same arguments and opinions.

Mesh router with a couple of satellites will easily cover 6000-8000 sqft home plus an acre of property depending on placement of the devices and construction. Coverage will be full speed often the same as wire connection and full bandwidth. Setup out of the box up and running in 20 minutes.

 

[Falcon67]

right now my phone will fight to stay connected to the wifi when I'm in the garage even though the data is pretty much nonexistent.

And there ain't nothing you can do about it except turn wifi off and back on. Or wait - it should EVENTUALLY give up on the weak AP.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Your university most likely didn't just go out and buy 255 wifi routers at the local best buy. Those access points they use are designed to work as a group and has the ability to know whether a particular client can be potentially connected to a stronger signal. So they can "boot" a client off an access point to force it to connect to another one with a stronger signal.

You are not going to get the same thing if you just buy 2 off-the-shelf wifi routers or an extender. The decision to switch from a wifi network to another normally entirely depends on the client implementation. For security reason most wifi clients will hang on to a weak signal even if there is a stronger signal.

I run the network and it's no different here on $600 APs vs the $120 APs I have at home. It's the same thing, except when a client roams from one area to another their IP changes in the background based on the background VLANs. Still, it's up to the client to release. I've seen phones connect to an AP 2 floors away when another was 20' from the client. The client pretty much does what it does. The clients can roam if they want but a lot of them just don't do it well. And/or just decide the pound the **** out of a nearby AP with retrys thereby setting off interface alarms. Hello Apple...

My Galaxy 9 will hang on to an AP - If I'm using it for a quickie site survey I sometime have to cycle wifi to get it to behave. And some days it'll decide to load up and try connecting to the guest web portal SSID even though I tell it repeatedly to forget that network and only use the secure admin SSID. Same-same as the OP - it'll stick to the house AP out in the shop even though there is a AP-Lite not 8' from where it sits, and the other is 60' away through Hardi panel, brick, insulation and at least 3 layers of drywall.

 

[Specracer]

YOU DO NOT WANT 2 ROUTERS. A router manages all the devises connected, issues IP addresses etc. Its the gatekeeper, organizing things on your network, before going out to the web. Your wifes router will stay in charge. In your garage, you want an ACCESS POINT (will act an a wifi antenna, and will use the Cat 6 you ran). And as others said, if you set it up with the same SSID (the network name) and password you will be able to take your lap top (or what ever) from the house to the garage and it will stay connected.

~300' you should be fine on distance.

NOTE, most routers in their settings you can disable the routing, and use it simply as an access point. To keep things simpler, simply get an access point (less set up). Avoid mesh, use the wire you have already installed.

 

[bullnerd]

I like the way this sounds.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

YOU DO NOT WANT 2 ROUTERS. A router manages all the devises connected, issues IP addresses etc. Its the gatekeeper, organizing things on your network, before going out to the web. Your wifes router will stay in charge. In your garage, you want an ACCESS POINT (will act an a wifi antenna, and will use the Cat 6 you ran). And as others said, if you set it up with the same SSID (the network name) and password you will be able to take your lap top (or what ever) from the house to the garage and it will stay connected.

~300' you should be fine on distance.

NOTE, most routers in their settings you can disable the routing, and use it simply as an access point. To keep things simpler, simply get an access point (less set up). Avoid mesh, use the wire you have already installed.

In all my years in this field i have never come across a wireless router that didnt have the option to turn off DHCP.

On the older linksys wrt54G models, one would simply turn off DHCP and plug in the uplink cable into one of the LAN ports NOT the WAN port.

In this setup, 2 routers function just fine. Ive done this setup countless times.

Ive done it with netgear nighthawks. There is no issue with multiple routers if theyre setup properly.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

In all my years in this field i have never come across a wireless router that didnt have the option to turn off DHCP.

On the older linksys wrt54G models, one would simply turn off DHCP and plug in the uplink cable into one of the LAN ports NOT the WAN port.

In this setup, 2 routers function just fine. Ive done this setup countless times.

Ive done it with netgear nighthawks. There is no issue with multiple routers if theyre setup properly.

Plus 1 on this.

You have all the hardware you need.

The following assumes you have a tested, working good wired connection to the garage; buy/borrow and Ethernet tester and ‘buzz out’ your hardwired line from the garage to the house if you haven’t already.

Only slight gotcha is you need to do things in the correct order, as turning your garage router into a switch+wifi AP may mean that it you will struggle to connect to its web-interface afterwards.

1) Turn off the house router.
2) connect to your garage router over Ethernet with a laptop/computer. Login in to its web interface (google the model number to find out the default u/n and p/w) Ensure there is nothing else connected. Change the wifi SSID and P/W to match your home one. Save the changes.
3) Confirm your phone connects to the wifi network. It will likely complain of no internet.
4) Back in the garage router’s web interface, turn off DHCP. Save the changes.
5) Turn the house router back on
6) Go out to the garage, connect the garage router to your wired connection. Importantly, DO NOT connect it to the ‘WAN’ or ‘internet’ (globe icon) port, just one of the ordinary Ethernet ports.
7) Disconnect your phone from wifi and force it to reconnect (note this manual intervention should be required this time only).
8) The phone should connect to your garage router’s wifi network – which will be obvious by looking at the signal strength…Browse GJ from your phone

If at any time you screw up, you can use the ‘reset to factory defaults’ recessed button on the router, using a pencil.

The above should allow you to roam seamlessly between house and garage, but as others have stated, some phones (and other wireless devices) will tend to hang on to weak signal APs.

I would actually have a different SSID and P/W for my garage network, and ensure my phone settings were such that it would automatically select the strongest wifi network. However, I would still perform all the steps as above, as the turning a second router into a switch+AP has other advantages, especially if you have (or might have in future) wired devices in the garage.

 

[Specracer]

Absolutely true, I agree. However on many occasions we have gone to a home with a homeowner set up network, only to find DHCP enabled on both devices, at least 2 SSID's etc etc etc. All wireless routers have an access point built in, but an access point is not a router. The word "router" is often used generically, part of the point of the post was to differentiate the 2 (router vs AP)

In all my years in this field i have never come across a wireless router that didnt have the option to turn off DHCP.

 

[sr4440]

wow, really making it hard for this poor guy. He said he has a NETGEAR N750, which can be configured as a access point. Plug in the NETGEAR N750 (into yellow port), log into NETGEAR N750, configure as a AP (in advance settings), broadcast same SSID and security (aes) on a different channel (preferred), let base router take care of DHCP.

If done this way, when he goes from his house to the garage the IP address stays the same and the router only updates the MAC address table. it's pretty much seamless to the user unless he's live steaming video as he's walking. LOL



Joe

 

[Falcon67]

LOL, as above. And if there was a router that would not turn off DHCP, you just make two scopes that don't overlap.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

wow, really making it hard for this poor guy. He said he has a NETGEAR N750, which can be configured as a access point. Plug in the NETGEAR N750 (into yellow port), log into NETGEAR N750, configure as a AP (in advance settings), broadcast same SSID and security (aes) on a different channel (preferred), let base router take care of DHCP.

If done this way, when he goes from his house to the garage the IP address stays the same and the router only updates the MAC address table. it's pretty much seamless to the user unless he's live steaming video as he's walking. LOL



Joe

Ahh my bad, I neglected to google the OP’s router model number and gave a generic procedure. Should still work for others who find this thread and don’t have the Netgear.

Matt

 

[wyliesdiesels]

LOL, as above. And if there was a router that would not turn off DHCP, you just make two scopes that don't overlap.

Exactly. Just setup 2 subnets.