[Introduction] About to go flat-rate

[jrhavener]

Greetings,

I'm an automotive technician. I've been working in the field for 5 years. The first 2 of which were in school and internship. I got strait A's through school, and have always busted *** at work. I have access to company specific training which I always take advantage of when I can. I've been asked to go flat rate soon and I'd like to be as prepared as possible so I have a few questions I thought I'd through out to the community. I currently work on light vehicles (and rarely anything bigger than an SUV or small truck). I like doing electrical/electronic work, but it's not very common for me to get diag in those departments often.

I have basic hand tools, some electric and air tools as well, but I like to be thorough, so please help me piece together what I'm missing:

What tools should I ABSOLUTELY have in my box?
Are there any tools I should AVOID buying right off?
Are there any skills I should brush up on/practice?

Are there any questions I'm not asking that I should? What are they?
I'm on my lunch, so hopefully I'll get a chance to add an updated tool list and maybe pictures, too. Any advice/criticism is greatly appreciated. Thanks

update: sorry, I am working at a dealership currently. I understand the whole concept of flat rate and warrantee is something nobody smiles at, but we sell used vehicles and have a pretty steady flow of customers from what I can tell after 2+ years here.

Thanks for all the great responces! I appreciate the advice everyone's shared with me!

 

[3 Gun Shooter]

Are you going flat **** at a dealership or at an independent shop? Warranty work at dealerships pays very poor for the amount of hours you get. Dealerships also do not get a lot of service work and that is where you make money on flat ****.

Been in this trade for 40 years, if I was 30 again I would get out so fast.

 

[jrhavener]

Been in this trade for 40 years, if I was 30 again I would get out so fast.

I've heard the same from many people. A lot of people grow working in the industry or staying in it because of family. I'm kind of the black sheep in regards to actually wanting to do this work. I tried for 10 years or so to find something I'd like, but discovered my love for design/motors/automotive and my hate for working all day at a desk, that this was the best career choice for me until I can pilot a racecar or spaceship. (childhood dreams =D)

 

[NJHandyGuy]

You do not need the.biggest box in.the world

You will need a power probe
Swivel impacts are your.best friend.
Buy a 3/8 cordless impact

 

[TAMPAGT07]

A good name brand set of flare nut wrenches.. (I swear by Snap On's.) Also, some good sets of metric and standard swivel sockets (1/4", 3/8's)... 1/4" and 3/8" extensions in as many different lengths as you can find..

 

[jrhavener]

You do not need the.biggest box in.the world

You will need a power probe
Swivel impacts are your.best friend.
Buy a 3/8 cordless impact

[1] Great, just dropped 11k on a box... j/k I'm fine with the POS I have =)
[2] Check
[3] I'll add it to the list and ask to try out some of my co-workers in the mean time.
[4] Check, absolutely love it. Got a 1/4" hex gun I love too.

Thanks!

 

[jrhavener]

A good name brand set of flare nut wrenches

Any particular reason for this? The only use I know of is for doing brake line work, and occasionally trans lines.

 

[chris142]

I'd recommend a good 1/2 impact. I've had my 231 for 25 years. Still works fine.

Also impact sockets. Don't use Chrome sockets on it.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

A good name brand set of flare nut wrenches

Any particular reason for this? The only use I know of is for doing brake line work, and occasionally trans lines.

Bingo, you will be working on brakes? When you need them, you need them...

 

[warmpancakes]

You do not need the.biggest box in.the world

You will need a power probe
Swivel impacts are your.best friend.
Buy a 3/8 cordless impact

this, But make sure it has 2 batteries

 

[NJHandyGuy]

At least mine never gets put down about 3 pm every day I change the battery and keep going flat rate ***** but that cuts your times dramatically

 

[NJHandyGuy]

I normally discourage Going in debt on the so truck at first but the ct360/1 will knock your socks off

 

[sleepy127]

Flare nut wrenches are money savers. It is too easy to round off a brake line or transmission fitting.

 

[Traule]

Don't get sucked into the whole Snap-On elitism, stick with what works, buy a comfortable pair of workboots

 

[Kensgarage]

Dealership = AIR. Leave the plastic toys at home.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003V9P6RO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[jrhavener]

Don't get sucked into the whole Snap-On elitism, stick with what works, buy a comfortable pair of workboots

can verify, the boots I bought off them are garbage. 1 year old, can't make them any tighter and they are worn through and uncomfortable. couldn't drop 300 on a decent pair at the time so 10 a week wasn't bad.

 

[jrhavener]

I normally discourage Going in debt on the so truck at first but the ct360/1 will knock your socks off

I can't find that in the catalog, is "ct360/1" correct? or would you mind just telling me which tool you mean? Thanks!

 

[redmondjp]

Flare nut wrenches are money savers. It is too easy to round off a brake line or transmission fitting.

And a set of metric crowsfoot flare nut wrenches will save the day when you have to get to a steering rack fitting using one along with a 2' long extension bar.

Specialty tool: you don't need it until you do, and then you can't do the job without it!

 

[Silentt]

3\8 impact swivels, 3\8 impact extensions and a strong 3\8 gun will make your work go by a lot quicker. A strong 1\2 impact and a long 1\2 breaker\ratchet when the 3\8 isn't strong enough. A heavy ball peen hammer and some pry bars. Also if rust is present get a good air hammer. That's what I mostly use.

Buy quality if you can afford it. Don't buy the biggest box to show off, tool truck debt *****.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

[Silentt]

Also a quality set of wrenches (I swear by my SO fd+ set). They make life easier especially with alignments

 

[94_C/1500]

Be good friends with service writers and the manager. Seemed to work well for the flat rate guys where I used to work.

 

[jrobb316]

First thing you'll need is a set of knee pads. If you want any good work you'll need em. Beyond that get a cordless 3/8 (not snapon) and use air for everything else. Good set of ratcheting wrenches too. Was flat **** for 16 years, got out this year and loving it. Being a auto mechanic gave me the skills to get a real job.

 

[Skin]

Flat rate is primarily about knowledge. After that its automation. Don't use hand tools when you can be using cordless or pneumatic. Basically all there is to it.

 

[[email protected]]

First thing you'll need is a set of knee pads. If you want any good work you'll need em. Beyond that get a cordless 3/8 (not snapon) and use air for everything else. Good set of ratcheting wrenches too. Was flat **** for 16 years, got out this year and loving it. Being a auto mechanic gave me the skills to get a real job.

And what is the real job?

 

[Fedwrench]

I might have missed it but. what kind of dealership are you working at, and what will be your specialty?

What you work on and what tasks you'll perform will determine what you really need

 

[oilslick]

And what is the real job?

me too. maybe I am qualified too? Seriously ,kind of oversimplified but a cordless 3/8 and and a good airhammer have made me look like a hero next to average wrenches.

 

[MDK22]

If you are going to go flat rate you need to sit down and plan some things out. Things that seem stupid but, will build speed in the long run like not sweeping up after every car but, only sweeping everything into the middle of the bay until it gets too much to stand on. Keeping your tools organized. I would recommend a service cart even if it is a cheap 1 shelf up top down bottom small thing. Get into a set pattern or routine. Stuff you do before work and stuff you do before you leave work. I recommend making a list putting it in a plastic sleeve and using a washable marker taped to a string attached too the plastic sleeve. Anytime you go to do something always be using air/electric tools as much as is humanly possible. When you buy tools ask yourself can i use this on an air/electric tool. You will break stuff at first this way but, in the end you will be a hell of a lot faster. Learn your tools. When you get a new tool force yourself to use it for the 2 weeks it is new. Put it on the cart always use it as much as possible.

As for tools you need/want.
1/4" air/electric ratchet
3/8" Impact with a easy to control aka feather-able trigger
3/8" air/electric ratchet low torque high rpm
1/2" Impact mainly used for overtightened lugs, suspension, and crank bolts
Ratcheting wrenches
Bit sockets
Fine tooth, long handle, flexhead ratchets.
Master sets from gp or equivalent for 3/8" or 1/4"
Wobble extensions 1/4" SO chrome, 3/8" + 1/2" Sunex Impact
Impact grade adapters up and down 1/4" through 3/4" drive.
Driving end prybars instead of regular
All sockets should be a flank drive of sorts so that it mates on the flats not the points when turning.
Spiral bound notebook for writing stuff down.
Spiral binder for you to make cheat sheets in for stuff you do all the time ie torque specs, fluid levels, oil reset via button combo, etc.

Line wrenches should really only be SO the rest of them are bulkier or spread to easy. I have expert but, they are much fatter which can be an issue on autos.

Make yourself a tray of your most used sockets. I use these trays. Ya they are cheap but, they just work clips are easy to find if they break or pop off. Nothing liquid wise will really mess it up. I put all my adapters, universal joints, smallest wobble extensions all on the tray along with most used sockets. You then put that tray on your cart every day. You want to have a prybar holder on the side of your cart to put both prybars and screwdrivers in. Your most used fluids both for in the vehicle and for doing work aka breakleen, penetrating oil, air tool oil, soapy water should all be on the cart. Basically the point is you rarely want to have to go back to your box while you are working. Every time you do a job write down what you did and the tools you took out in that spiral notebook. Things you do all the time you will remember things you do occasionally you will love having that stuff written down. Music if you get distracted easily having music in the background can be good to drowned out the other people in the shop because you can focus on the music and won't pay as much attention to the people around you. Just don't make yourself a safety story. Remove things in assemblies as much as possible aka if you have to remove the air box to get to something don't take it apart just remove the entire box. I would recommend investing in a gallon of Silikroil or another insanly good penetrant this comes into play if you do a lot of work with any part of the exhaust system especially. If you get a vehicle in that is all rusted soak as much stuff right off the bat as you can with penetrating oil. Even if you think you only might have to take that part off.

Some books I would recommend are:
Machinery's Handbook, 29th 29th Edition by Erik Oberg
Ugly's Electrical References, 2014 Edition 4th Edition by Jones & Bartlett Learning
Engine Performance Diagnostics by ScannerDanner

 

[Mastermind]

As mentioned, 75% of my wrenching is done with my cordless 3/8 impact and universal sockets. I like my Matco ones better than the pinned styles. Wear gloves. Dealer should provide them. And a 3/8 in a 1/4 drive body ratchet. Best tool ever.

 

[wrnchmonkey]

Organization is key. Spend 2 mins looking for a tool every time you need one can add up to serious time at the end of the week. If your organized you can put all your tools away in minutes which means the next car you can find the tool you were looking for.

I have all my socket sizes labeled so I don't have to guess. Everything I need to label is labeled. If it takes more then a minute to find a tool I change that for the next time. It's just as much muscle memory as doing the actual job. Also when doing brakes I always do it the exact same order. It's tedious but it's fast. I never stop moving I always am working towards the finish line without backtracking.

I set a new personal best today on a 06 odyssey timing belt/water pump of 1:51. That's torquing all critical parts with a torque wrench and I am not all concerned it won't last til the next tbelt is due.

 

[jrobb316]

me too. maybe I am qualified too? Seriously ,kind of oversimplified but a cordless 3/8 and and a good airhammer have made me look like a hero next to average wrenches.

I got a job in industrial automation. The skills I gained from working on cars; the mechanical knowledge and electrical diagnostic knowledge was enough for them to bring me on. It was a lateral move, sort of. Flat rate hour vs my hourly wage are about the same. Annual raises, and raises based on performance, and thats to start. I am a Honda Master, ASE Master, and Toyota Expert tech, so I am at the upper end of the pay scale here, we're not talking lube or low level tech wages, so I was topped out. I have actual benefits now, like insurance you can actually afford, more payed holidays, and time and a half over 8 hours every day. So i'm making more, just walking in the door. I don't know if you were serious in the question, but thats the serious answer. I like going to work again not worrying how deep the unlubed pry bar end was going to be inserted on a daily basis between the manufacturers screwing you and then especially the dealerships bending you over.

 

[jrobb316]

Organization is key. Spend 2 mins looking for a tool every time you need one can add up to serious time at the end of the week. If your organized you can put all your tools away in minutes which means the next car you can find the tool you were looking for.

I have all my socket sizes labeled so I don't have to guess. Everything I need to label is labeled. If it takes more then a minute to find a tool I change that for the next time. It's just as much muscle memory as doing the actual job. Also when doing brakes I always do it the exact same order. It's tedious but it's fast. I never stop moving I always am working towards the finish line without backtracking.

I set a new personal best today on a 06 odyssey timing belt/water pump of 1:51. That's torquing all critical parts with a torque wrench and I am not all concerned it won't last til the next tbelt is due.

Nice time on the belt! I ALWAYS torque the crank bolt to 181 ft lbs, otherwise I don't bother with anything else. Don't know if you're at a dealer or not, I was getting the V6 ring jobs done in about 7 hrs on the odyssey.

 

[jrhavener]

Being a auto mechanic gave me the skills to get a real job.

Just curious, what do you do now? By comparison I made more $ delivering pizzas but I was bored out of my skull. I at least feel like I'm using my brain and I love those "ah-ha!" or "eureka!" moments, so I'm tempted to stick with this for a while. I also have experience with CAD and design, so maybe eventually I'll get into some fabrication.

 

[jrhavener]

First thing you'll need is a set of knee pads.

I hope you mean this is intended for saving my knees over the years and not intended for *achem* getting on the good side *achem* of my superiors.

all jesting aside, any recommendations for knee savers?

 

[jrhavener]

Be good friends with service writers and the manager. Seemed to work well for the flat rate guys where I used to work.

I love that immediately after your comment is the guy telling me to get knee pads.

 

[wrnchmonkey]

Nice time on the belt! I ALWAYS torque the crank bolt to 181 ft lbs, otherwise I don't bother with anything else. Don't know if you're at a dealer or not, I was getting the V6 ring jobs done in about 7 hrs on the odyssey.

Nope no dealer for me. Just a lot of experience with the Honda j series v6. I do not envy you and the ring jobs. I kind of feel bad for my local dealer techs I send at least one a month there with a misfire and fouled plugs from bad rings.

Kind of **** about torquing timing components and things that seal fluids, but it has kept me from stupid comebacks and leaks.

 

[jrobb316]

I hope you mean this is intended for saving my knees over the years and not intended for *achem* getting on the good side *achem* of my superiors.

all jesting aside, any recommendations for knee savers?

I was referring to the latter. But in seriousness get a kneeling pad, when setting the rack or doing some internal door work, your knees will thank you. Also being serious, flat rate makes a bunch of little girls out of guys, always whining and complaining someone is using knee pads for blowing their boss and taking home more of the pie than them. Some will feel entitled that you should do all the **** work and they should do none. You will find out very quick what's what. I also do believe you were making more delivering pizza. Auto techs get paid **** these days, unless one is a real go getter at the right dealership.

 

[Lotek]

My advice? Use hand tools at first, add in airelectric tools as you gain experience, Nothing slows you down like breaking, rounding, or crossthreading fasteners. You aren't going to beat flatrate at first, those who try end up as hacks with rechecks. RTFM, the mfg provides you with service information, check tsb's and diagnostic procedures, then review repair procedures when doing something new. Know what normal is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, no matter how the customer thinks it should work. Document your recommendations, repairs, and no problem founds, cya. Respect your elders, it goes a long way in furthering your career. If you have to borrow a tool twice, buy it.

 

[pepi]

The question is vague, it comes down to this. You buy as you discover, no one can tell you exactly what you need. One size does not fit all, as in life you must adapt as you go.

Very good advice about using hand tools and knowing how to. Then step into power tools. Lot of whizz bang, pumping the trigger air and electric tools jockeys out in the world.

 

[MDK22]

I think after 5 yrs he probably has how to used hand tools down especially because he has the insight to ask questions.

 

[bsaint]

Its amazing how many people are negative and bitter to the auto repair industry.