inverter Generator recommendations

[fics]

well.... had a power outage for 5 days .... prior to the outage I had a generator that took care of my fridge, sump pump , water (cistern) and furnace.... Well it has been a while since I needed the generator and I upgraded my fridge and furnace.... well power went out and fridge and furnace would not work on generator power.... so quick search on internet .... I need a inverter generator now ..... does anybody know a good inverter generator to buy .... everything is made in China now and I don"t know what is good or bad and what to avoid....any help would be appreciated .... I need an inverter generator to ruin the basics ..... fridge, water(cistern), furnace and misc...
Thanks
John

 

[freebirdwelds]

I don't know anythings about the pricing on this site. But they have a lot to look at and compare.

Electric Generator Depot | Your Outdoor Power Destination

Largest USA Based Sales & Support for Top Brands such as Honda Power Equipment, DeWALT, DuroMax, Generac and More. All in Stock and Ready to Ship Free!

www.electricgeneratordepot.com

 

[nickelTwin]

How big are you looking for?

Honda would be my first choice, if you are truly looking for quality and reliability.

 

[larry4406]

Can’t help you

Curious though, why must be an inverter type?

Your old unit has “dirty power” and the smarts in your new fridge and furnace not happy?

As a stop gap, can you install a computer type UPS to get buy? I think these filter the power acceptably.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Honda

 

[loganb]

Honda generally wins the award for reliability, however they are 3 to 4x the price of the generic versions from Northern Tools, Harbor Freight etc and those get very good reviews. I bought the blue one from Northern ND been happy in the little bit I've used it, biggest issue I have with them is its a big price jump to get 240v on an inverter unit

 

[rdoty]

Can’t help you

Curious though, why must be an inverter type?

Your old unit has “dirty power” and the smarts in your new fridge and furnace not happy?

As a stop gap, can you install a computer type UPS to get buy? I think these filter the power acceptably.

UPS systems with power conditioning capabilities, like the APC SmartUPS series, don't like the dirty power coming out of a non-inverter generator. They complain loudly and either shut down or switch over to battery power.

 

[larry4406]

UPS systems with power conditioning capabilities, like the APC SmartUPS series, don't like the dirty power coming out of a non-inverter generator. They complain loudly and either shut down or switch over to battery power.

Ok but why does his old generator not play nice with the new fridge and furnace?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can’t help you

Curious though, why must be an inverter type?

Your old unit has “dirty power” and the smarts in your new fridge and furnace not happy?

As a stop gap, can you install a computer type UPS to get buy? I think these filter the power acceptably.

only the online double conversion UPSs do that because the equipment is getting power from the batteries not the utility input. essentially an inverter style UPS. these are very expensive. better to just get an inverter generator.

the line interactive and cheapo standby type UPSs dont do filtering like that...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

UPS systems with power conditioning capabilities, like the APC SmartUPS series, don't like the dirty power coming out of a non-inverter generator. They complain loudly and either shut down or switch over to battery power.

yup and even those (line interactive) dont "filter" the incoming utility power. if it gets real bad they just switch over to battery power like you said... if you want filtered UPS power, you need an online double conversion UPS..... very pricey

 

[rdoty]

Ok but why does his old generator not play nice with the new fridge and furnace?

Because many new appliances and HVAC systems are actually computers with a few motors and other accessories hidden inside. The dirty power plays havoc with the precision power and frequency they expect.

Computers without especially high quality power supplies. A decent power supply would tolerate the dirty power. Well, tolerate it better... It would also cost more.

My understanding is that the low end generators put out a modified square wave rather than a smooth sine wave, and that this square wave causes ringing in electronic circuits.

 

[Denwood]

Same issue with a newer furnace, and any electronics behind a UPS. They won't run on generator power. I have a small champion inverter which has worked fine when needed, 2200 watts. It is relatively quiet, quite light to throw around and so far has been reliable.

With the inverter, all is good. The furnace with an ECM motor only needs 2-3 amps so there is lots left over to run the essentials. The smaller inverter generator would not however power my 120V MIG welder when I tried to run it for an emergency roadside repair, so definitely a larger inverter (something in the 3500 watt range) would be a better choice if you have needs in that department.

 

[American Locomotive]

Computers don't care about dirty power - their switchmode power supplies internally convert everything to DC, then chop it into high freqeuency AC, then back to DC again. Basically nothing on the AC input side will make it to the DC output that feeds the computer.

The problem is that appliances are not computers with proper power supplies. They have really cheap power supplies that are often nothing more than a few diodes and resistors. They pass through any electronic noise into the microcontroller, causing problems. Some appliances even get a timing signal from the 60Hz AC!

It has nothing to do with modified sinewaves. All standard non-inverter generators produce true sinewave output! The problem is a lot of cheap generators produce "noisy" power. This is either electronic noise from the brushes sparking, weird frequency harmonics inherent with the design, noise from the power impulses of the single cylinder engine, or frequency instability from poor governor control. Inverter generators do away with all of that, but a quality standard generator should also produce clean power.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I went a slightly different route, with a 1500W 120V pure sine 12V inverter. It runs fridge/furnace/lights but not the 240V well pump. The inverter is handy to have in general, so maybe you could rig one of those with a 12V battery to your fridge and furnace, and use your existing generator to run everything else and keep the battery charged. Yeah it's a bit fiddly but it'd only cost you $300-400 and you'd have a great 12V inverter for other uses.

Samlex 1500 is what I got.

 

[Terry D]

Not All Inverter generators are created equally. I did a service change for a customer in dead of winter. I wanted to keep his furnace going so I borrowed a friends Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverter generator ( Honda Clone). It never would run the furnace. Board kept blinking fault codes. Customer was worried that the generator ruined the board. Luckily all was good when powered back up with house power. Im also a fan of Honda generators. But they come with a price. But as the saying goes, Buy once, Cry once.

 

[rlitman]

Not All Inverter generators are created equally. I did a service change for a customer in dead of winter. I wanted to keep his furnace going so I borrowed a friends Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverter generator ( Honda Clone). It never would run the furnace. Board kept blinking fault codes. Customer was worried that the generator ruined the board. Luckily all was good when powered back up with house power. Im also a fan of Honda generators. But they come with a price. But as the saying goes, Buy once, Cry once.

I could see several possible causes here. If the inverter is a "modified" sinewave (found in the very cheapest of inverters), then the power is noisy as heck (worse than a cheap conventional generator). I doubt this is what the HF is though. I don't see much of this style inverter outside of tiny UPS (under 1000w).

A more likely scenario is that the inverter was undersized. A furnace blower draws quite a bit of power, and a 2000w inverter may not be able to run it AND still put out clean power. I'd love to see an oscilloscope trace of that inverter's output both with and without load. Matthias Wandel had some excellent videos on inverters (off battery, not generator, but that's beside the point) running power tools recently.

Another possible scenario is that there's something wrong with the furnace (a blown capacitor is my guess). A device with a poor power factor may operate just fine when on the utility transformer, because the noise it generates goes back out to the grid. But when run on a generator, the noise is reflected back and can build up. The best analogy I can think of off the top of my head is comparing farting into the wind vs in a closed phone booth.

 

[Metal-Marc]

Rub the Honda generator three times and the Honda genie will suddenly appear.

 

[AntonLargiader]

A more likely scenario is that the inverter was undersized. A furnace blower draws quite a bit of power, and a 2000w inverter may not be able to run it AND still put out clean power.

Maybe for a larger oil furnace with a combustion blower as well as a forced-air circulation blower or maybe hot water pumps that would be true, but I'd still have a hard time thinking that a furnace would draw anything near 15A. That's a LOT.

My NG furnace load was mostly the air handler and used less than half of my 1500W capacity.

 

[rlitman]

Maybe for a larger oil furnace with a combustion blower as well as a forced-air circulation blower or maybe hot water pumps that would be true, but I'd still have a hard time thinking that a furnace would draw anything near 15A. That's a LOT.

My NG furnace load was mostly the air handler and used less than half of my 1500W capacity.

What furnace doesn't have a forced air circulation blower?

Anyway, re-read my note about Matthias Wandel. He goes in depth about running a circular saw on an inverter and the results. A CIRCULAR SAW that may be rated for 12A on the label will draw over 70A when starting. The FLA is immaterial when it comes to an inverter. That's only useful for circuit breaker sizing.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Computers don't care about dirty power - their switchmode power supplies internally convert everything to DC, then chop it into high freqeuency AC, then back to DC again. Basically nothing on the AC input side will make it to the DC output that feeds the computer.

Your half right ! I know of nothing in a modern computer that requires AC voltage so the last step is not performed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not All Inverter generators are created equally. I did a service change for a customer in dead of winter. I wanted to keep his furnace going so I borrowed a friends Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverter generator ( Honda Clone). It never would run the furnace. Board kept blinking fault codes.

Very surprising ! I have never heard of an issue with any of the popular cheaper brands (Harbor Freight, Champion).

One common thing is, if you are hooking it up DIRECTLY to a modern furnace, this generators are NOT BONDED ! Some electronics will check for this and not start up. Buy or make a bonding plug.

 

[theoldwizard1]

PSA - Stay away from brushless generators ! Very "dirty" power !

Good quality , brushed non-inverter generators are not as bad as many make out. You want one that has a builtin automatic voltage regulator. Also, you need a Kill-a-Watt meter to verify voltage and frequency. Many generators need to have the engine speed adjusted in order to keep the frequency between about 59 and 61 Hz, from unloaded to fully loaded.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The FLA is immaterial when it comes to an inverter (generator).

Why do you say that. Power is power. If you can not get the motor to start spinning, something has to give !

 

[rlitman]

Why do you say that. Power is power. If you can not get the motor to start spinning, something has to give !

Because FLA is not equal to starting current. "Thermal" (time weighted) power is immaterial in this situation. What matters to an inverter is instantaneous power, which is derived from locked rotor current (the same source of the ludicrous power ratings you found on shop vacs). If the inverter cannot supply what the motor load needs EVERY single cycle, you're going to have weird issues.

Here's an example:

Oh, and watch how the inverter ends up eating Matthias's Kill-A-Watt (it may not be in this specific video, I don't recall; he did a few in this series). LOL.

 

[Denwood]

Very surprising ! I have never heard of an issue with any of the popular cheaper brands (Harbor Freight, Champion).

One common thing is, if you are hooking it up DIRECTLY to a modern furnace, this generators are NOT BONDED ! Some electronics will check for this and not start up. Buy or make a bonding plug.

Yes, and the same would apply charging an EV directly from an inverter/generator...you need to make or buy a bonded plug.

If you are connecting the inverter/generator via the house generator panel input, or a proper interlock setup, then you are good to go as neutral will connect to ground via the panel.

 

[mike93lx]

My Briggs Q6500 has been good to me so far, although I haven't needed to run it very long.

 

[AntonLargiader]

What furnace doesn't have a forced air circulation blower?

One that heats water. Your local slang may be boiler for that, but to some a boiler would only be for making steam.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Anyway, re-read my note about Matthias Wandel. He goes in depth about running a circular saw on an inverter and the results. A CIRCULAR SAW that may be rated for 12A on the label will draw over 70A when starting. The FLA is immaterial when it comes to an inverter. T

I don't see the parallel. Modern air handlers have variable or multi speed motors that start pretty softly. I'm speaking about my own direct experience with this.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't see the parallel. Modern air handlers have variable or multi speed motors that start pretty softly. I'm speaking about my own direct experience with this.

Maybe not as common as you think ! Lot's of single speed blowers out there.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I'm sure they do exist. The O.P. can figure out what he has and take it from there.

 

[olytdi]

#1 -- Honda
#2 -- Yamaha

About 10-12 years ago, I bought a used Honda EU6500is and converted it to tri-fuel. Have used it for years on NG and now LP without a single hiccup. Just works. Serves whole house with well and heat. I do load manage. I would make the same decision again in a heartbeat. I live on a heavily wooded dead-end road in the PNW with 8-10 outages/year.

 

[Terry D]

Very surprising ! I have never heard of an issue with any of the popular cheaper brands (Harbor Freight, Champion).

One common thing is, if you are hooking it up DIRECTLY to a modern furnace, this generators are NOT BONDED ! Some electronics will check for this and not start up. Buy or make a bonding plug

That might have been the reason,

 

[rlitman]

...One common thing is, if you are hooking it up DIRECTLY to a modern furnace, this generators are NOT BONDED ! Some electronics will check for this and not start up. Buy or make a bonding plug.

I had a similar issue with an EV once. A friend tried to charge off of a cord reel in my garage, but the EV wouldn't work with it. A second cord reel worked fine. The first, had brushed rings for neutral and line, but used the spring and chassis for ground, and while it was a 3 wire cord, the ground continuity was not all that good. The second had three brushed rings and solid ground continuity.

I don't see the parallel. Modern air handlers have variable or multi speed motors that start pretty softly. I'm speaking about my own direct experience with this.

Your success is one data point, and while I've seen many multi speed motors on furnaces and air handlers, ones that actually USE that feature for easier starting are rare. That's because a multi speed motor should be started on high (which is why multi speed fans always use the off-high-medium-low switch configuration), and slow starts and variable speed kits are rather uncommon.

Also, furnaces heat air and boilers heat water. This is not slang, and is not local. Here's what the EPA has to say about the subject:

Furnaces and Boilers

Most Americans heat their homes with a furnace or boiler, and high-efficiency models of all types of furnaces and boilers are available. Is it time...

www.energy.gov

"Most U.S. homes are heated with either furnaces or boilers. Furnaces heat air and distribute the heated air through the house using ducts. Boilers heat water, and provide either hot water or steam for heating."

 

[AntonLargiader]

Hmm, on my Google search, in order to find that definition you have to skip over the Oxford dictionary saying:

• North American
  an appliance fired by gas, oil, or wood in which air or water is heated to be circulated throughout a building in a heating system.

It's not that important to me. The OP has a new furnace in his own words. To me, new stuff is likely to have more efficient components, and is likely to have a blower with a lower startup draw. Nothing like a circular saw starting, is my main point (I have a few of those, too). Our programming is pretty typical, from what I've read, in that the air handler will first try to satisfy the setpoint with lower air speeds and then increase as needed. If the OP's brand new system is as sophisticated as our 8 year old system, and isn't twice as large, then 2000W should handle it.

I have been in houses where the air handler went straight to full blast. But I'm not living in cheap college housing any more and I doubt the OP is. His system is new and probably far more sophisticated than those were. Let's hear from him.

 

[Iron Beaver]

Rub the Honda generator three times and the Honda genie will suddenly appear.

I think that's Metallitubby

 

[Iron Beaver]

I know of just a few major small engine mfgs these days: Briggs, Kohler, Honda, Yamaha, Lifan, Zongshen, and Loncin. No matter whether it is branded Predator, DuroMax, or "New 4 stroke engine GX25 4 stroke petrol engine ,4 stroke Gasoline engine for brush cutter with 25cc 0.7KW power CE Approved", chances are your favorite generator engine is made by one of these companies. IMO more thought should be given to the generator and inverter quality than engine brand.