Inverter heat pump Central ducted systems

[gregs]

I currently have a 4 ton WSHP that operates off an open loop well system. Its going on 20 years old and still works fine. But thinking about options for the future. One of the issues / problems with a conventional heat pump system is locating a spot outside for the condenser unit mostly because they are so big and ugly (wife says). I started looking into the inverter units mostly because the outdoor unit is much more compact and less obtrusive. WIth the high seer ratings I am thinking the efficiency may actually be better than the older WSHP and well operation now.

Looking for any feedback specifically regarding the inverter units that use a typical ducted style evaporator indoor unit. I want to keep my current duct system and not use the mini split head units. I have a location that would work for the outdoor unit that I can get power to and the refrigerant lines. Curious as to the life expectancy, how well they work compared to a conventional heat pump, drawbacks, etc.

 

[theoldwizard1]

WIth the high seer ratings I am thinking the efficiency may actually be better than the older WSHP and well operation now.

Simple thermodynamics says that a constant temperature heat sink/source (the well) will always beat a variable temperature heat sink/source (outside air). Maybe not all of the time, but certainly in extreme hot/cold weather.

 

[Jackfre]

TOW1. Is right on this but in addition to a 20 yr old HP you have a 20 yr old “system.” You have to throw pumping cost into the mix too. Yes you have a constant cop with the water. Where do you live?

 

[danski0224]

I started looking into the inverter units mostly because the outdoor unit is much more compact and less obtrusive.

Really only true for mini splits.

Not all mini split condensers can run a conventional split evap.

WIth the high seer ratings

Only true for mini splits. SEER includes ductwork, which most mini splits do not hsve.

I am thinking the efficiency may actually be better than the older WSHP and well operation now.

"Thinking" = assuming in this case.

Verify published specs.

 

[gregs]

Just for a quick view, this is what I was looking at. Havent gone done the rabbit hole yet...

https://hvacdirect.com/4-ton-16-5-seer2-mrcool-central-ducted-hyper-heat-2nd-gen-heat-pump-split-system-r454b-central-48-hp-c-230b00-o-mvp-48-hp-muah-230a00-o.html?utm_term=199040&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Heat%20Pump%20%7C%20Shopping%20%7C%20Unitary%20%7C%20Branded%20%7C%203%20-%20Low%20%7C%20MRCOOL&utm_content=MRCOOL%20%7C%20Inverter%20%7C%204.00%20Ton%20-%2048k%20BTU&utm_adgroupid=161919885729&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21036260622&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp9vTBhCWARIsANaUrjsnJUcRTs82GrIGhcgpJYiqhWGwCbXc9vyW8MDSgAs55TkuIb73G0YaAv6HEALw_wcB

 

[WildBill]

Just for a quick view, this is what I was looking at. Havent gone done the rabbit hole yet...

https://hvacdirect.com/4-ton-16-5-seer2-mrcool-central-ducted-hyper-heat-2nd-gen-heat-pump-split-system-r454b-central-48-hp-c-230b00-o-mvp-48-hp-muah-230a00-o.html?utm_term=199040&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Heat%20Pump%20%7C%20Shopping%20%7C%20Unitary%20%7C%20Branded%20%7C%203%20-%20Low%20%7C%20MRCOOL&utm_content=MRCOOL%20%7C%20Inverter%20%7C%204.00%20Ton%20-%2048k%20BTU&utm_adgroupid=161919885729&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21036260622&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp9vTBhCWARIsANaUrjsnJUcRTs82GrIGhcgpJYiqhWGwCbXc9vyW8MDSgAs55TkuIb73G0YaAv6HEALw_wcB

I would recommend getting your equipment from these guys as they have really great support and are good dealing with on warranty stuff. I am looking at replacing my 20+ year old conventional forced air setup with something like this as well. https://iwae.com/shop/4-ton-16-5-se...d-generation-multiposition-r454b-ha26283.html

 

[gregs]

I would recommend getting your equipment from these guys as they have really great support and are good dealing with on warranty stuff. I am looking at replacing my 20+ year old conventional forced air setup with something like this as well. https://iwae.com/shop/4-ton-16-5-se...d-generation-multiposition-r454b-ha26283.html

My link was just a quick search to post. I havent really looked into brands and such yet. Also with the newer / different refrigerants available, thats another consideration. It seems like the 410 stuff has a lot of issues and seems to die after 10 years. Not sure if the newer refrigerants are any different / better.

But yea, thats generally what I am thinking about.

 

[gregs]

TOW1. Is right on this but in addition to a 20 yr old HP you have a 20 yr old “system.” You have to throw pumping cost into the mix too. Yes you have a constant cop with the water. Where do you live?

I am in Florida. Its sorta a function of age of both the unit and well equipment. Not to mention we are coming out of a drought now, so the water can be a potential issue in the future. I am not knocking the efficiency of the WSHP but more the future as we are going to be here for at least another 20 years.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Only true for mini splits. SEER includes ductwork, which most mini splits do not have.

Excellent point ! Mini-splits will always win compared to central systems for this reason.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am in Florida.

If I lived in FL, personally I would stick with water source.

 

[Two Door]

Here is one tesimonial (very positive) - over at the "other place". No history for you, as it's been newly installed, but interesting regarding current performance.

 

[fitter30]

There is no way that air cooled can compete with geo. Heating 45° water has more heat than 0° air. Cooling 50° water has less heat rhan 100° air. How often did the geo water coils have to be acid cleaned?

 

[pima67]

As for big and ugly, landscaping with bushes and or decorative wall could make her happy. Our AC compressors are enclosed by 6 ft high walls with gates next to building.

 

[gregs]

There is no way that air cooled can compete with geo. Heating 45° water has more heat than 0° air. Cooling 50° water has less heat rhan 100° air. How often did the geo water coils have to be acid cleaned?

Average water temp is 72-74 year round. I have cleaned the coil a couple of times over the years. Again I am not knocking the geo, just thinking about the next 20 years.

 

[mm08822]

Average water temp is 72-74 year round. I have cleaned the coil a couple of times over the years. Again I am not knocking the geo, just thinking about the next 20 years.

Where are you located that delivered water temp is 72-74F?

 

[gregs]

North Florida. The springs and aquifer are that temp all year.

 

[Two Door]

I would assume the inverter condenser would act no differently powering a ducted indoor setup than it would with individual heads, and apparently they work well across the world. One obvious vulnerability is the inverter boards, which can be taken out by lightening and voltage spikes, especially if they have no intentional protection.

 

[jlv03]

Is there a room or two that could benefit from a minisplit?

I say run the geothermal until failure, and then make the decision. Meanwhile, no harm in experimenting with a minisplit to heat/cool a certain part of the house.