Is 3 phase equipment worth the hassle?
- Thread starter John T
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48RON54
Well-known member
If you expect to rarely use it -
Do you have a 3 phase generator or have access to a 3 phase generator to power it that once in awhile you actually plan on using it?
Do you have a 3 phase generator or have access to a 3 phase generator to power it that once in awhile you actually plan on using it?
doctordirt
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Look into a vfd, variable frequency drive, single phase 240 in, three phase out plus infinite speed control by changing frequency either higher or lower than standard 60 cycles
48RON54
Well-known member
Knowing myself, i would just buy it and hope to figure the rest of the problem out later lol
porschedude996TT
Well-known member
All you need is a two speed 2 hp motor. They don't cost that much, by a used one, a new one, or see if there is an Electric Motor shop around you area.
I found this with little effort.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANTAGE-M...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f3a0b5bb3#ht_519wt_1362
I found this with little effort.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANTAGE-M...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f3a0b5bb3#ht_519wt_1362
BirdMobile
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i went through a similar decision about 15 years ago. Decided 3-phase was a PITA, and replaced the motor with a single phase. Didn't end up costing that much either.
Thanks.
just realized though, the mill is a 6hp motor.
The motor is a 1.5 hp @ 1700 rpm and 2 hp @ 3430 rpm. The 6 you see is CY 60, or 60 cycles /sec or 60HZ.
Slapping a single phase motor on that unit is not just as easy as "all you need". Most vertical machining centers have an output shaft that is not a NEMA standard that drives the pulleys for the spindle. If you truly want this machine, what you need is below. Careful what advice you follow on the internet!
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ts_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-22P0
Slapping a single phase motor on that unit is not just as easy as "all you need". Most vertical machining centers have an output shaft that is not a NEMA standard that drives the pulleys for the spindle. If you truly want this machine, what you need is below. Careful what advice you follow on the internet!
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ts_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC)/GS2-22P0
Nortonscustom
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- Jun 5, 2008
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- 375
Thats 60 cycles aka 60hz.
It's a 2hp motor.
All you need is a simple phase converter.
It's a 2hp motor.
All you need is a simple phase converter.
rsanter
Well-known member
Three phase is so much better....
Get a VFD and run it on that and you will gain variable speed along with the phase conversion.
I just got a VFD for my big drill press for right about $150 shipped
Bob
Get a VFD and run it on that and you will gain variable speed along with the phase conversion.
I just got a VFD for my big drill press for right about $150 shipped
Bob
rsanter
Well-known member
And....where are you
I might tell you not to go get it if you are near me
Bob
I might tell you not to go get it if you are near me
Bob
The fact they call it a "profit master". Good old COO China 
Is it worth the hassle for the home guy?
For cutting tools such as table saws, mills, lathes, shapers, etc. Yes
For compressors, welders, some large grinders, No.
My question would be is that mill worth the time and money. I've never seen that brand before.
Is it worth the hassle for the home guy?
For cutting tools such as table saws, mills, lathes, shapers, etc. Yes
For compressors, welders, some large grinders, No.
My question would be is that mill worth the time and money. I've never seen that brand before.
Im not familiar with the brand but there were so many bridgeport knockoffs who knows.
Check the backlash in the X and Y travel, I can promise you it will have some, just need to see how much you are comfortable.
If you are able to power it up it should run quiet, like real quiet. If it is loud when running than it has internal problems...
Check the backlash in the X and Y travel, I can promise you it will have some, just need to see how much you are comfortable.
If you are able to power it up it should run quiet, like real quiet. If it is loud when running than it has internal problems...
Steinmetz
Well-known member
"My question would be is that mill worth the time and money…". Probably. But it's no world-beater.
"I've never seen that brand before…". Yes you have. As another brand. Probably made hundreds like it under similarly deceptive names.
"I've never seen that brand before…". Yes you have. As another brand. Probably made hundreds like it under similarly deceptive names.
ttpete
Well-known member
I'd look real close at it, and if you have a friend who's a toolmaker, bring him along. See how worn the table screws are and how far you have to turn the cranks before the table starts to move. That's a pretty dirty machine and it looks like it has run a lot of production using coolant. Put a tool in the spindle and tighten the drawbar, then take hold of it and shake it back and forth to see of there's any slack in the bearings. If there is, you'll wind up pulling the head and overhauling it. It's also an offbrand, and parts might be a problem unless genuine Bridgeport parts will interchange. There's usually a good reason when something is priced so low, often it's because it will no longer operate within proper tolerances for production.
y20dth
Well-known member
$500???????
That thing should be sitting in the corner of your garage allready !
That thing should be sitting in the corner of your garage allready !
That Chinese imitation Bridgeport is a 'gambling-device'
For infrequent home hobby use, it may be a worthwhile gamble, or, at least, an interesting 'learning curve experience'. If it does seem to work fairly well, it will soon pay for itself with home capability for work which would otherwise have to be sent out, such as drilling out broken studs or bolts, or making up special tooling as may be needed.
With its alignment errors mapped, one may shim workpieces to compensate, and get fairly good work, just not 'make good time on the job'. Understand that you will also need a mill vise, collets, drill chucks, end-mills, etc., and budget accordingly.....such tooling may often be found cheaply on Craig's list, or other internet sources.
If you are planning to use machine tools at all, setting up a 'phase converter' is practical and cost-effective.
The cheapest option is to get a 'static phase converter', and use it to start an 'idler motor', which will 'induce' the 'third leg' of three-phase, from the 'two legs' of common 230V residential 'dryer plug' or 'electric stove plug' power.
The info about how to do this is available in many places on the internet....do a 'search' and read dozens of 'success stories'.....and the 'bad example' stories, as well.
Hooking up a phase converter system to power machine tools from the common 100 Amp residential service is a very simple, easy job, for someone with electrician's knowledge and skills.....if you haven't those skills, get an electrician friend to help.....even common 115VAC power can kill or badly burn you, if you are careless with it.
If you opt for a 'VFD', be warned that using frequency change as speed control may 'fry' some cheaply made (read 'oriental') motors.
cheers
Carla
For infrequent home hobby use, it may be a worthwhile gamble, or, at least, an interesting 'learning curve experience'. If it does seem to work fairly well, it will soon pay for itself with home capability for work which would otherwise have to be sent out, such as drilling out broken studs or bolts, or making up special tooling as may be needed.
With its alignment errors mapped, one may shim workpieces to compensate, and get fairly good work, just not 'make good time on the job'. Understand that you will also need a mill vise, collets, drill chucks, end-mills, etc., and budget accordingly.....such tooling may often be found cheaply on Craig's list, or other internet sources.
If you are planning to use machine tools at all, setting up a 'phase converter' is practical and cost-effective.
The cheapest option is to get a 'static phase converter', and use it to start an 'idler motor', which will 'induce' the 'third leg' of three-phase, from the 'two legs' of common 230V residential 'dryer plug' or 'electric stove plug' power.
The info about how to do this is available in many places on the internet....do a 'search' and read dozens of 'success stories'.....and the 'bad example' stories, as well.
Hooking up a phase converter system to power machine tools from the common 100 Amp residential service is a very simple, easy job, for someone with electrician's knowledge and skills.....if you haven't those skills, get an electrician friend to help.....even common 115VAC power can kill or badly burn you, if you are careless with it.
If you opt for a 'VFD', be warned that using frequency change as speed control may 'fry' some cheaply made (read 'oriental') motors.
cheers
Carla
91bronc300
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- Oct 19, 2009
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- 2,559
What phase converter did you get? Have a link?
If the vise is included as some collets and cutting tools then you are close to a free mill. That is a $250 vise used. So if it has some accesories with it then you have a cheap mill that you can strip of all the accessories and sell bare for the $500 you've invested and your out $0.00 for the experience, plus all the items you keep to tool up the next, better mill you get.
The scary thing I see on that mill is all the handles have been replaced with home made ones leading me to think it may have been treated roughly or dropped.
Making 3 phase is not a big deal. I've run all my machines from a rotary that I build many years ago and it's still doing fine.
lg
no neat sig line
The scary thing I see on that mill is all the handles have been replaced with home made ones leading me to think it may have been treated roughly or dropped.
Making 3 phase is not a big deal. I've run all my machines from a rotary that I build many years ago and it's still doing fine.
lg
no neat sig line
3 phase scares a lot of buyers so prices are better and the tools much beefier.
Yes 3 phase is worth the hassle on machine tools. A phase converter using a used 3 phase motor and some motor run capacitors is not hard to make. There are some USA 3 phase welders that can be rewired to single phase and the output power is excellent.
That mill may not be a great deal. It's the "Bridgeport" style which many are familiar with, so that makes the price go up. It was never "Bridgeport" quality even when new. If it has the R8 taper spindle it is not for heavy cutting. That motor is very specific to the machine with the mounting points etc. The spindle draw bar is at the top so one is always reaching up there.
It can be tall so be aware of ceiling room.
There are many better Old American Iron options. For example the Van Norman mills. This video shows one similar to my 22LU. One reason this is a great mill is at 1:36 into the video. Power feed on all 3 axis with rapids. No turning cranks unless one wants.
CAT or NMTB 50 taper spindle tool holders are plentiful on ebay.
Yes 3 phase is worth the hassle on machine tools. A phase converter using a used 3 phase motor and some motor run capacitors is not hard to make. There are some USA 3 phase welders that can be rewired to single phase and the output power is excellent.
That mill may not be a great deal. It's the "Bridgeport" style which many are familiar with, so that makes the price go up. It was never "Bridgeport" quality even when new. If it has the R8 taper spindle it is not for heavy cutting. That motor is very specific to the machine with the mounting points etc. The spindle draw bar is at the top so one is always reaching up there.
It can be tall so be aware of ceiling room.
There are many better Old American Iron options. For example the Van Norman mills. This video shows one similar to my 22LU. One reason this is a great mill is at 1:36 into the video. Power feed on all 3 axis with rapids. No turning cranks unless one wants.
CAT or NMTB 50 taper spindle tool holders are plentiful on ebay.
Ign
Well-known member
Not worth it. Stay away, and tell everyone else too. Undesireable! Drive the market down. No one wants it!
Now, where's it at again?
Now, where's it at again?
rsanter
Well-known member
paulsomlo
Well-known member
When I buy a piece of machinery, the type of motor isn't even a consideration, because three phase can always be dealt with. Static converter or VFD, take your pick.
RPH
Well-known member
The vfd drives can also be set to just output 60 Hz current. You do not have to use the variable part. Know plenty of people who use them this way and let the gears/ belts/ pulleys run the speed changes.
54stude
Well-known member
3 phase = reverse able motor for power tapping
A vfd would be the simplest way to get the mill powered up, if you plan of other three phased equipment look into building a rotary phase converter.
Letsgobowhunting
Well-known member
A static phase converter will do the trick. It is cheap, less than a hundred bucks. It will wire to a 30 amp breaker and you can wire a dryer end connected on the end and plug in different 3 phase equipment when you want to run it. It would take an hour at the most to install and do everything.
$500 is a steal if it runs properly. It doesn't need to be super tight for a home shop machine. Parts are available. You will spend a few bucks on tooling, collets, drill chuck fixtureing, vise indicator, calipers, etc.
$500 is a steal if it runs properly. It doesn't need to be super tight for a home shop machine. Parts are available. You will spend a few bucks on tooling, collets, drill chuck fixtureing, vise indicator, calipers, etc.
Last edited:
rsanter
Well-known member
With a static converter you loose about 1/3rd of the motor HP
With the VFD you might loose 5% and you gain the variable speed ability.
And they have gotten where they are not much more than the static converter
Bob
That is all true, but sometimes a very low cost temporary solution will help bring people over the the 3 phase side. This first solution can be upgrades as the need arises. I am still on my first home made rotary converter using a free idler motor and free caps.
Regards,
404
JoeFin
Well-known member
Is a manual mill handy to have around for a "Car Guy" is like asking does the "Bear P@@p in the Woods"
Practical Machinist has an entire subforum dedicated to building 3 phase generators - you probably should check that out. You could build your own for a couple $100 and never have to worry about powering up 3 phase equipment again.
BTW: here is a 4ea 38mm carb manifold I built for the kid's 2AG large port head. 1 of my first projects all done on a manual mill many moons ago
Practical Machinist has an entire subforum dedicated to building 3 phase generators - you probably should check that out. You could build your own for a couple $100 and never have to worry about powering up 3 phase equipment again.
BTW: here is a 4ea 38mm carb manifold I built for the kid's 2AG large port head. 1 of my first projects all done on a manual mill many moons ago
dr_clyde
Well-known member
I just hooked up to the three phase power already in the box. Cheating, I know. But then again, I'm not running a hobby shop. My needs are different.
Pretty much all my machinery is 3 phase. Lathe, mill, compressor, pedestal grinder, belt grinder, vertical bandsaw, horizontal bandsaw, the list goes on. Some machinery worth having is only available in 3 phase.
I say go for it. Once you have it, you won't have to worry about it. Btw, choose a voltage and stick with it if possible. Having to deal with transformers can be a pain. I chose 480 volts, and step up from what was run to the building. Seems like 480 equipment is more readily available.
Pretty much all my machinery is 3 phase. Lathe, mill, compressor, pedestal grinder, belt grinder, vertical bandsaw, horizontal bandsaw, the list goes on. Some machinery worth having is only available in 3 phase.
I say go for it. Once you have it, you won't have to worry about it. Btw, choose a voltage and stick with it if possible. Having to deal with transformers can be a pain. I chose 480 volts, and step up from what was run to the building. Seems like 480 equipment is more readily available.