Is an accessory structure required by NEC to have certain electrical features?

[reader2580]

My new garage is technically an accessory structure per the city. I have another detached garage for my daily driver. Does the NEC still require the same electrical items as it does for a garage? Due to recent financial setbacks due to my health I no longer have the money for the high bay lights I was going to buy. I am wondering if the NEC is going to require some minimal amount of electrical like they do for a garage?

 

[dscheidt]

The nec doesn’t require electricity in accessory structures. If it does have electricity, you will need to have the minimum stuff, yes, unless there’s a local exception.

 

[dcg9381]

Just make sure you set ground rods / foundation grounding.
What version of NEC does the city follow?

There are some 2020 requirements. It's called an "accessory building":

2020 NEC:
210.52(G) Basements, Garages, and Accessory Buildings. For one- and two-family dwellings, and multifamily dwellings, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in the areas specified in 210.52(G)(1) through (G)(3). These receptacles shall be in addition to receptacles required for specific equipment.

In 2017 NEC, not the case:
Accessory Buildings. In each accessory building with electric power.

 

[reader2580]

Minnesota is on 2023, and is expected to be on 2026 as of July 1, 2026.

I think my plan then is going to be to pull out the wire from the conduit going to my other garage, remove the electrical panel in the new garage, and then cut the conduit off at ground level outside. I will have to call the city on Monday to be sure they don't require electricity to sign off on the building permit.

 

[mm08822]

IIRC, the min will be:
Disconnecting means for panel(can be the panel main cb or less than 6 throws of hand),
2 ground rods,
1 outdoor light over entry door
1 indoor light at entry door w/switch
1 light over panel if inner entry light not sufficient
Gfci recept near panel

 

[larry4406]

IIRC, the min will be:
Disconnecting means for panel(can be the panel main cb or less than 6 throws of hand),
2 ground rods,
1 outdoor light over entry door
1 indoor light at entry door w/switch
1 light over panel if inner entry light not sufficient
Gfci recept near panel

This sounds about the same as I was told for my detached barn accessory structure.

 

[theoldwizard1]

When my buddy was building his barn, he was told of the building is going to house live animals, all wiring must be run in EMT

 

[reader2580]

I specifically asked the inspector about the use of NM-B which he said was fine so long as stapled to blocking for horizontal runs.

Since I now know the requirements are the same for a garage and an accessory structure I'll have to remove the electrical the next time it warms up a bit here. I want to get my building permit closed out, but I can't even afford a new electrical permit as mine timed out after a year.

 

[larry_g]

When I built my shop the building dept listed things needed for a shop but said if you build a barn then it was not so much . So I permitted a barn and went from there. So what you call it may help you in this instance. Does a storage shed need electricity?

lg

 

[billconner]

What is it going to be used for? I did't think any uninhabited accessory structure - a shed - requires any electrical. dcg points out it might. Pull a,single branch circuit if conduit is there or ask your building department if you can leave it out.

I don't know why you'd have to cut conduit. Leave it there for future. Nowhere I know prohibits empty conduit.

 

[partsguy5768]

Minnesota is on 2023, and is expected to be on 2026 as of July 1, 2026.

I think my plan then is going to be to pull out the wire from the conduit going to my other garage, remove the electrical panel in the new garage, and then cut the conduit off at ground level outside. I will have to call the city on Monday to be sure they don't require electricity to sign off on the building permit.

Just do the bare minimum which isn't much. Get it signed off and then do what you want when you want...all my 3 shops I got signed off with a single bulb, one outlet gfci, the absolute cheapest light above the man door. The look on the inspectors face priceless as he is forced to final. 1st thing out is the gfci after final the next thing is covered walkways around and lots of new construction inside all when final is done.. I scratch my head why in the land of the " free" so many rush to the government to find out what they are " allowed to do"...

 

[BillK]

Seems crazy to take out the stuff that you have already installed. I would check with your city first. If it there but not hooked up I dont see what problem it would cause.

 

[partsguy5768]

Seems crazy to take out the stuff that you have already installed. I would check with your city first. If it there but not hooked up I dont see what problem it would cause.

Why check? Just do the absolute bare minimum get signed off and move on. Or do absolutely nothing and get signed off later or never..

 

[reader2580]

I need a new electrical permit for about $100 in order to finish the electrical. I just spent $4,270 on ER visits for some health issues so I am totally broke at the moment. (Yes, I have have health insurance, but I was in the ER quite a few times.)

 

[partsguy5768]

I need a new electrical permit for about $100 in order to finish the electrical. I just spent $4,270 on ER visits for some health issues so I am totally broke at the moment. (Yes, I have have health insurance, but I was in the ER quite a few times.)

Just wait until you can afford...

 

[reader2580]

Just wait until you can afford...

I am trying to get the building permit closed out without spending any more money. I don't want to get in trouble with the city over having the permit open for over 18 months, and not doing any additional work for more than six months. Electrical is the only thing left.

 

[mm08822]

Why check? Just do the absolute bare minimum get signed off and move on. Or do absolutely nothing and get signed off later or never..

He could have to re-permit if there is a period of inactivity.
If electrical was on the dwgs, and incomplete, he has to either remove it so it has nothing or do the min. They could require updated dwgs for even only the min.

Using the bldg w/o a CO, could cause a fine if town wanted to be

 

[mm08822]

I am trying to get the building permit closed out without spending any more money. I don't want to get in trouble with the city over having the permit open for over 18 months, and not doing any additional work for more than six months. Electrical is the only thing left.

Call them and plead your case. They could grant an extension if someone has a bleeding .

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Just do the bare minimum which isn't much. Get it signed off and then do what you want when you want...

BAD ADVICE! Don’t play games with inspectors.
Do the basic electric now and get your final certificate of approval and when you decide what you want to do later (months or years) obtain a permit for the work that you are doing.

I have inspected outbuildings with a service, GFI and a light and the owner indicated this "basic electric" on the drawings and submitted the permit as indicated so I did the final inspection, approved the work, took a picture and issued the CA. I would tell the owner to obtain a permit for the next phase of work to avoid any penalties for work without permits.…….. Most folks would listen and obtain a permit prior to start of performing the work and some didn’t and when they got caught they paid a big penalty.

BTW! Love that "iron collection" that Mr Partsguy has in the pix!

 

[partsguy5768]

BAD ADVICE! Don’t play games with inspectors.
Do the basic electric now and get your final certificate of approval and when you decide what you want to do later (months or years) obtain a permit for the work that you are doing.

I have inspected outbuildings with a service, GFI and a light and the owner indicated this "basic electric" on the drawings and submitted the permit as indicated so I did the final inspection, approved the work, took a picture and issued the CA. I would tell the owner to obtain a permit for the next phase of work to avoid any penalties for work without permits.…….. Most folks would listen and obtain a permit prior to start of performing the work and some didn’t and when they got caught they paid a big penalty.

BTW! Love that "iron collection" that Mr Partsguy has in the pix!

Well I'll take me chances here in the land of the " free" my 1st shop at 23 and several more after at 59 never had a single issue... the car thing... my fun little hobbie but am banned until I get some stuff of my wifes list... working on a nice greenhouse for her. Wiring today ironically and yes I got my permit.... not... thanks for the compliment. Take care.

 

[dave*99]

BAD ADVICE! Don’t play games with inspectors.
Do the basic electric now and get your final certificate of approval and when you decide what you want to do later (months or years) obtain a permit for the work that you are doing.

I have inspected outbuildings with a service, GFI and a light and the owner indicated this "basic electric" on the drawings and submitted the permit as indicated so I did the final inspection, approved the work, took a picture and issued the CA. I would tell the owner to obtain a permit for the next phase of work to avoid any penalties for work without permits.…….. Most folks would listen and obtain a permit prior to start of performing the work and some didn’t and when they got caught they paid a big penalty.

This has been my observation too.

I know folks that had penalties and were required to get permits for basements that were finished without a permit etc. And they might have done the work perfectly 20 years ago, but at sale time the codes have changed and the new permits hold them to the new codes.

I have a few friends that are realtors and mortgage bankers, and they tell me of deals that blow up at sale time for these issues.

Keep in mind it's a big country and local conditions vary. Know your region so you can make an informed decision. There are places that only require a permit when you build. There are places where the sight of construction debris in the trash without a permit in the window will result in the inspector knocking on your door.

This is why folks on GJ often ask for location from posters.

YMMV

 

[larry_g]

Keep in mind it's a big country and local conditions vary. Know your region so you can make an informed decision. There are places that only require a permit when you build. There are places where the sight of construction debris in the trash without a permit in the window will result in the inspector knocking on your door.
This is why folks on GJ often ask for location from posters.

YMMV

Quoting the above because it is so true. What I can get away with here is not the same as what others can do in their location.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

This has been my observation too.

I know folks that had penalties and were required to get permits for basements that were finished without a permit etc. And they might have done the work perfectly 20 years ago, but at sale time the codes have changed and the new permits hold them to the new codes.

I have a few friends that are realtors and mortgage bankers, and they tell me of deals that blow up at sale time for these issues.

Keep in mind it's a big country and local conditions vary. Know your region so you can make an informed decision. There are places that only require a permit when you build. There are places where the sight of construction debris in the trash without a permit in the window will result in the inspector knocking on your door.

This is why folks on GJ often ask for location from posters.

YMMV

I can honestly say that during my 25 year career as a construction official, I never followed a lumber truck or contractors truck to a jobsite to see what type of work they were doing because the work that was done without permits always landed at my desk from angry renters, neighbors, pizzed off friends, in laws, real estate agents and even ex-wives who would rat out the property owners…….. Of course there were many complaints from contractors who did not get the job because their bid was too high. I always asked these "complainers" to put it in writing and I would take care of it and I would always send out a $2000 "Notice of Violation" to the property owner and there were a few licensed contractors who put their license in jeopardy and were fined heavily by the licensing board for multiple violations for working without permits or consumer fraud.

I ran a full time office and did quick turnarounds on permits and performed timely inspections so there was no reason NOT to obtain a permit that was required…….. Good contractors always obtained permits and "IF" the job was an emergency job all they had to do was to make a phone call and let us know what they were doing.

 

[dave*99]

landed at my desk from angry renters, neighbors, pizzed off friends, in laws, real estate agents and even ex-wives who would rat out the property owners……..

I knew of a case where one neighbor lost his job for taking kickbacks from the copier salesman at his office job.

He mistakenly thought he was turned in by another neighbor. And he turned that guy in for unpermitted construction on his own house.
Fines fines fines.

 

[reader2580]

There was no electrical plan required to be submitted with the building permit. I certainly don't want to pay another $700 for a new building permit because I let the original permit lapse. I want to get signed off before I have to get a new permit.

I am BROKE right now. I cannot afford the $100 to get a new electrical permit as the original electrical permit expired after a year. Five ER visits in two weeks with two ambulance rides will drain the finances in a hurry at $700 per ER visit plus $350 per ambulance ride. I had enough funds to finish the electrical with high bay lighting before all the health issues.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I knew of a case where one neighbor lost his job for taking kickbacks from the copier salesman at his office job.

He mistakenly thought he was turned in by another neighbor. And he turned that guy in for unpermitted construction on his own house.
Fines fines fines.

I use to call this "The Domino Effect"
Sometimes the "ratting" would go down the road for about a 1/4 mile.……. Neighbor against neighbor and the original complaint came from the fire department after multiple false alarms.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

There was no electrical plan required to be submitted with the building permit. I certainly don't want to pay another $700 for a new building permit because I let the original permit lapse. I want to get signed off before I have to get a new permit.

I am BROKE right now. I cannot afford the $100 to get a new electrical permit as the original electrical permit expired after a year. Five ER visits in two weeks with two ambulance rides will drain the finances in a hurry at $700 per ER visit plus $350 per ambulance ride. I had enough funds to finish the electrical with high bay lighting before all the health issues.

Hang in there until you recover!
Call the municipality and tell them what’s going on with your situation……… I am positive they will understand and they will tell you how to proceed.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

When my buddy was building his barn, he was told of the building is going to house live animals, all wiring must be run in EMT

Local amendment

 

[partsguy5768]

This has been my observation too.

I know folks that had penalties and were required to get permits for basements that were finished without a permit etc. And they might have done the work perfectly 20 years ago, but at sale time the codes have changed and the new permits hold them to the new codes.

I have a few friends that are realtors and mortgage bankers, and they tell me of deals that blow up at sale time for these issues.

Keep in mind it's a big country and local conditions vary. Know your region so you can make an informed decision. There are places that only require a permit when you build. There are places where the sight of construction debris in the trash without a permit in the window will result in the inspector knocking on your door.

This is why folks on GJ often ask for location from posters.

YMMV

There was no electrical plan required to be submitted with the building permit. I certainly don't want to pay another $700 for a new building permit because I let the original permit lapse. I want to get signed off before I have to get a new permit.

I am BROKE right now. I cannot afford the $100 to get a new electrical permit as the original electrical permit expired after a year. Five ER visits in two weeks with two ambulance rides will drain the finances in a hurry at $700 per ER visit plus $350 per ambulance ride. I had enough funds to finish the electrical with high bay lighting before all the health issues.

There was no electrical plan required to be submitted with the building permit. I certainly don't want to pay another $700 for a new building permit because I let the original permit lapse. I want to get signed off before I have to get a new permit.

I am BROKE right now. I cannot afford the $100 to get a new electrical permit as the original electrical permit expired after a year. Five ER visits in two weeks with two ambulance rides will drain the finances in a hurry at $700 per ER visit plus $350 per ambulance ride. I had enough funds to finish the electrical with high bay lighting before all the health issues.

Sorry about the hassle.. if it just a 100 bucks pm me and I'll send you a hundred if it will get you where you need to be. Take care.

 

[alfredeneuman]

When my buddy was building his barn, he was told of the building is going to house live animals, all wiring must be run in EMT

So no PVC, PVC coated rigid (robroy), or LiquidTite flex?

 

[mm08822]

I thought EMT would die a quick death with the acidic urine and alkaline whitewash......

 

[dcg9381]

BAD ADVICE! Don’t play games with inspectors.
Do the basic electric now and get your final certificate of approval and when you decide what you want to do later (months or years) obtain a permit for the work that you are doing.

I agree with "don't play games". But YMMV. Here, all they track is the initial inspection and CO. There is no requirement to "permit" additional work. If I was go to "all in" on designing everything out the first time, I'm subject to making a lot more mistakes that are expensive to correct than if I do it in stages.

If you are in an area that requires permits for installing a new outlet, let alone a new circuit, and there is a "paper trail" of the last approved modification, by all means do permit it in stages (or as a complete build). These are the deals that impact resale or hold up a closing.

OP, simply put outlets in where your lights are going to go. You can switch to high bay when you can afford it.

No one gives a better electrical inspection than guys on GJ... Seriously.

 

[theoldwizard1]

So no PVC, PVC coated rigid (robroy), or LiquidTite flex?

Nope. Animals can chew through those.

 

[dscheidt]

Nope. Animals can chew through those.

any animal that can chew through Robroy is going to use emt as a toothpick.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Nope. Animals can chew through those.

which animals chew thru rigid? thats a sight ive gotta see

 

[u2slow]

I am trying to get the building permit closed out without spending any more money. I don't want to get in trouble with the city over having the permit open for over 18 months, and not doing any additional work for more than six months. Electrical is the only thing left.

I'm at 13 years now. No electrical permit.

Inspector wanted an additional $400 to keep building permit open after the first year ran out. I was broke, so didn't pay it. That was the last of any communication.

 

[PCustoms]

which animasl chew thru rigid? thats a sight ive gotta see

Why, the ipulledthisoutmyassosaurus of course

 

[JohnX14]

May want to check closer. Some permits expire only when work has ceased for a period of time. (6 months for building permits here, and 1 year for wiring permits). I had a problem in one town where I work where the new software printed out the expiration dates on permits. 99% were not expiring as work was ongoing.

 

[dave*99]

which animasl chew thru rigid? thats a sight ive gotta see

You ain't no wizard or you would conjure one up.

 

[reader2580]

I talked to the city building department today. They said that technically there is a six month limit on how long between any activity on a permit, but that can be waived by the city building official. He said that because the building is 100% finished on the exterior that he would waive the six month limit for me. He would rather see me finish the electrical before summer rather than remove the panel. He said I would need to remove the panel to get the final inspection now since I don't have a signed off electrical permit.

The six month limit on pauses on construction is more for the folks who build a shell with housewrap and then don't ever finish the project for years. There have been plenty of people who stop as soon as the roof is on and the housewrap installed. The sun and wind destroy the housewrap over time, and then rain/snow start to destroy the OSB sheathing. Neighbors start complaining because it is an eyesore, and it drags down property values.