Is Asbestos flooring really danger?

[Michael Foster]

Hey guys,
I am new to this forum. I just want to know about Asbestos flooring. Because I was planning to use asbestos tiles for flooring.

 

[rlitman]

Yes, it can be dangerous. But we need more information. Do you have an existing asbestos floor that you want to walk on? Do you have asbestos tiles you want to put onto a floor?

 

[4xdog]

You're talking about vinyl composition tiles (VCT)?

Yes, they're dangerous. By FAR the greatest danger is when they're disturbed, especially by removing them from a floor.

In the US, that style is in place all over, but hasn't been installed new for 30+ years. In Canada, where asbestos is largely tolerated (if not promoted) you might be able to get them.

But with so many viable alternatives, I think one would be nuts to install them in a new floor.

Why are you thinking to use them, Michael Foster?

 

[Lassen Forge]

You couldn't get me to put asbestos tiles down. The dispatch center I used to work at had Asbestos tiles on the floors everywhere - put in in the mid 70's, right before the phase out. By the 90's, it had worn down (as floor tiles like that do) and we were constantly wiping that asbestos-laden dust from sweeping the floor off of everything, but we didn't think of it as anything but "floor dirt"

Then... Someone eventually got smart and had that never-ending dust tested... guess what we'd all been breathing for the past 2 decades.

They shut us down, moved our operation, hired an asbestos remediation crew to remove it, took months before it was clear enough to return to work. What a total nightmare.

There are a lot of different options out there, to me Asbestos tile would be somewhere below the list of choices. It just doesn't last (regardless of what the adverts say), and it poses a hazard once it starts to go, because there's no way it CANNOT be "friable" once the surface is worn.

 

[Norcal]

If left alone when already installed I would not worry too much, disturbing it by removal, repair, other things is a bad idea, and I would not be installing any asbestos containing product as a new installation under any circumstances, that is a product that needs to be gotten rid of, not used.

 

[BD1]

I can't believe that asbestos tiles are even available ? Some existing floor tiles used adhesives that contained asbestos.
The job I was on had that. A hazardous materials company came out for the removal.


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[mcbane]

Be sure to glue them down with an adhesive containing at least 20% arachlor 1254. That provides a bit of flexibility that makes the asbestos tiles last longer.

 

[WP9]

When we built our house in 79-80 we had top of the line linoleum installed. ( major company we would recognize by name) When we remodeled we heard some Lino did contain asbestos, so we sampled and had ours tested. 5% asbestos, so we had it removed by a lid ended remediation company , since we planned on selling shortly after.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, Existing Asbestos is benign until it becomes friable.

I personally would avoid installing it because, one day someone will panic because of their concerns about the carcinogenic effects of Asbestos.

 

[The Cobbler]

you cannot buy new asbestos tile anymore . It used to be called VAT (Vinyl asbestos tile) now it's called VCT, vinyl composition tile ... depending on the age of asbestos tiles , but it probably contains about 3% asbestos .
it is considered non friable, meaning it's not hazardous unless you use a machine on it . cutting with a guillotine cutter won't pose a major threat . I'm curious how you know it has asbestos, how you came across it, etc.
and, NO, I would not use it.

 

[TTTTTT]

You're talking about vinyl composition tiles (VCT)?

Yes, they're dangerous. By FAR the greatest danger is when they're disturbed, especially by removing them from a floor.

In the US, that style is in place all over, but hasn't been installed new for 30+ years. In Canada, where asbestos is largely tolerated (if not promoted) you might be able to get them.

But with so many viable alternatives, I think one would be nuts to install them in a new floor.

Why are you thinking to use them, Michael Foster?

Are you joking . Guess you've never lived or come to Canada in the last probably May be 40 plus years.

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[The Cobbler]

....... In Canada, where asbestos is largely tolerated (if not promoted) you might be able to get them.

.....

interesting, got some references to that? I am Level 1 asbestos removal certified, I beg to differ .

 

[acer66]

Screw that stuff, good friend of mine died this year from the lung cancer it caused before turning even 65.

I remember in my apprenticeship as a metal fabricator we had a asbestos containing welding mat and every time we unfolded it the air was filled with fibers and everyone was itchy.

 

[pbon]

We spent $100k removing them from part of a 20000 SF building, but that included asbestos in some ceiling plaster and on some pipes. Given that cost, I would not install new ones even if they were available. As others have said, if in good condition, there is no issue except in the case of a fire. If in bad condition, there could be dust, but it’s really the pipe insulation that is the worst. The stuff in the ceiling plaster was very low percentage and the stuff in the floor tiles is also lower percentage and not dusty unless they are really in terrible shape where all the surface is gone and they are crumbling apart and the crumbles being ground up by foot traffic.

 

[b-boy]

I have them in my 100+ yr old house. I found 3 layers of flooring in the kitchen when I remodeled. The bottom level was asbestos tile with asbestos adhesive. I just put the new floor right over top of the old one. I didn't want to disturb it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Yes, it can be dangerous.

If you are talking about the asbestos tile flooring they used in the 50s, 60s and 70s, it is NOT dangerous WITH SIMPLE PRECAUTIONS !

First, wash the floor with soap and water. If possible, uses lot and lots of water and let it sit wet for a long time (hours, days if you have the time). It will come up much easier.

When prying/scraping up the tiles, where a dust mask. A full face dust mask and shield is even better.

The adhesive (the black adhesive is called "cutback") also contains some asbestos. There is only one solvent that will remove it, Sentinel 747.

What is dangerous is the dust/small piece. Use a shop vac with a HEPA filter. Line your shop vac with a plastic bag overlap the outside. Place a small amount of water in the bag (about a cup).

The waste can be put in heavy plastic bags (doubled would be good) and disposed of "normally".

EPA does NOT REQUIRE any permit for homeowners to do the work.


Been there, done that, more than once. Never again!

 

[theoldwizard1]

We spent $100k removing them from part of a 20000 SF building, but that included asbestos in some ceiling plaster and on some pipes.

The big part of your cost was for plaster and insulation removal. Those are "friable" (can create air born dust). This is where the "moon suit", clean chambers, etc. ARE REQUIRED !

 

[4xdog]

Are you joking . Guess you've never lived or come to Canada in the last probably May be 40 plus years....

interesting, got some references to that? I am Level 1 asbestos removal certified, I beg to differ .

Thanks, guys. I'm happy to hear a first hand report. I read an article a couple of weeks ago (in the NYT or WaPo, I thought) that talked about how many products still were formulated with asbestos in Canada, and how slow the country was to institute a wide ban on it. Wasn't it just a year or ago that the broad legislation was passed?

Can't find that reference now, so I've got more looking to do.

One of my best friends helped develop the original TEM methods for the US EPA in the 1980s that led to the AHERA legistation when we worked for the same research institute, and she runs a leading environmental lab now along with consulting in the field. So I've been around the material and its testing informally for decades.

Your reports on the ground are reassuring -- thanks for 'em!

(I've been to Canada *many* times over the last 40 years!)

 

[JR 42]

I would live with it if I already had it (damp mop it, don't sweep), but no way would I ever consider installing it, even if Canada didn't get around to passing sorta- comprehensive legislation just two years ago.

VCT and its adhesive are cheap enough to not have to worry about having asbestos, but VCT still requires regular maintenance like VAT (Armstrong, who paid out billions in asbestos- related settlements, brought out VCT with a much more durable finish in the last year or two, but it's expensive)- much more than pretty much all other flooring types except oiled or waxed wood. Not- so- great LVT is cheap, too, and similarly easy to install; the click stuff as well.

I'd expect asbestos regulations in Canada to get stricter in the future, so you'll be creating a problem you could easily avoid, and it's a pain in the *** to keep it looking good.

What product were you thinking of using? I've come across new VAT many times here in the US in the last 15 years but never in any quantity, just a box or two at a time.

 

[BigGarage]

Hey guys,
I am new to this forum. I just want to know about Asbestos flooring. Because I was planning to use asbestos tiles for flooring.

I like to bust it up into little pieces so that the particles float in the air and then I inhale deeply for hours.

Dennis

 

[nadogail]

Asbestos tile can be dangerous, just like *** can be dangerous.

Many people enjoy them for years with no ill effects, but there are always risks involved. Risks can be minimized with precautions.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm curious how you know it has asbestos, how you came across it, etc.

Any home in the US built in the 50s, 60s and probably 70s (maybe even the 80s) that has non-ceramic, non-stone tile is highly likely VAT. Just assume that it is (no sawing, no sanding, nothing that could create air borne dust).

 

[JR 42]

You really don't know until you test it, though. I've pulled samples I thought would undoubtedly come back hot (black vinyl sheet backing, black tar adhesive, chunks of 1970's 9x9 tile) that were clean.

That said, at some point asbestos was in just about everything you can find in a building, so pay the $50 if you need to.

 

[kaymccampbell]

If it's already down, you can minimize the bad dust by sealing it under a metal-acrylic wax coat without buffing or burnishing. That way you can sweep or vacuum without pulling up asbestos fibers. You'll need to add to the wax coat on a regular basis, depending on wear. If/when it gets thick, yellow and ugly, you'll have to wet strip it and do a fresh coat.

 

[Michael Foster]

For living room, yeah. And I understood from what you guys said it could be very dangerous.
I just came to knowledge of it while searching for types of tiles. Thank you so much for your effort guys.

 

[rburke65]

Wow.... hard to believe that it’s still available in Canada