Is Halogen / Metal Halide bulbs dead tech ?

[mobiledynamics]

Call me old school but I like 3K color....
I have tinkered with many, I still prefer old school halogen Par, Xenon for undercabs, PAR or even metal halide 50/75 for our laundry room.

I even stockpiled about 2 dozen of each, assuming its phase out

Seems like the younger generation just likes white/blue light.....


In all fairness, I have put LED on our outdoors, and for the kitchen, replaced the Par30 for high CRI led. It's close in color but missing 2-3 levels of warmth that halogen gives. However, the heat reduction is huge, which is the biggest noticeable difference for use.

 

[Musicinabottle]

The LED bulbs don't really dim as effectively in my opinion.

 

[mobiledynamics]

All my high hats have dimmers and I can count on one hand the # of times I've used the dimmer.

Just thinking outloud. I might order the Philips HueLight - see how it loooks on the toekick of our kitchen

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Call me old school but I like 3K color....

Same here. In my shop I much prefer the 5000K, but in and around the house, I tip my hat towards 3000K.

 

[JRC3]

Me too. 2700-3K is what I prefer. Nothing worse than going to someones house and they have some 5K bulbs over the kitchen table or in a living room. Who wants that blaring in your face. In the garage I like cool white 3500-4100k.

Same with cars. Those new bulbs are blinding.

 

[kwschumm]

LEDs for interior lighting still can't match up to Halogens for appearance but LEDs are getting closer. I go with 3k for the house, 4k for the shop, and 5k for outdoor floods.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Me too. 2700-3K is what I prefer. Nothing worse than going to someones house and they have some 5K bulbs over the kitchen table or in a living room. Who wants that blaring in your face. In the garage I like cool white 3500-4100k.

Same with cars. Those new bulbs are blinding.

This is funny.

We had 3K's at home. The wife saw the new 5K's we have at work. So the kitchen and laundry room got an upgrade.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[JRC3]

This is funny.

We had 3K's at home. The wife saw the new 5K's we have at work. So the kitchen and laundry room got an upgrade.

Capt. Chrysler

We all see things differently. Our eyes are just different.

I just installed a bunch of recessed lighting in a customer's kitchen and laundry. Not only did she want the 5000k but also wanted the larger 1290 lumen retrofits. She loves them. Same with other ceiling lights, she had me do daylight bulbs. She says she sees so much better with them. She is in her 70s.

Those kitchen lights are on a dimmer and kept low until she needs to crank them up. And man, they do crank up.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Concentrate on CRI. It may not be the CCT that you like as much as the near 100 CRI of the halogen bulb.

 

[mobiledynamics]

We have some $$ high CRI bulbs. no the no name not sure if it really meets specs CRI par bulbs. Color is okay. I still say it's missing that magic/that sizzle that halogen gives in our kitchen or laundry room.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Then there's the other factor that lower illumination levels look better at warmer (lower) CCTs and higher illumination levels look better at cooler (higher) CCTs. Just like outside where CCT and illumination in the AM is lower, rises higher at mid-day and drops back down in late afternoon. Not sure if anyone has come out with high CRI in the latest warm dim LED technology.

 

[American Locomotive]

We have some $$ high CRI bulbs. no the no name not sure if it really meets specs CRI par bulbs. Color is okay. I still say it's missing that magic/that sizzle that halogen gives in our kitchen or laundry room.

LED lights are not inherently "blue". We have some 98 CRI 3000k under cabinet LED lights and they look indistinguishable from an equivalent color temp halogen.

I'm also not sure how you could like metal halide anywhere inside your house. Most of them have atrocious color rendering unless you use the high dollar ceramic bulbs.

 

[Lassen Forge]

While I like the idea of using the LED bulbs to save energy, the one thing that bugs me is this arbitrary move to everything being 5500K High Intensity. I do have them over my stove where, like in my shop, the "daylight" light works... but living space? Office space? Not even.

They did that at work, the 20-somethings in facilities decided to switch everything from WW fluorescent to these 5500K LED tubes. My response was to put a yellow paper "barrier" between the grate and the tubes to soften the light. When facilities asked why I didn't just take a tube out, I had to explain color temperature to them, and they still didn't get it. I asked if I could put in my own WW LED tubes, to which they said no, because it "wasn't standard".

I get they're saving energy... but this makes my office look like an over-lit retail store in a mall somewhere... Hmmm... Store in a mall...

Maybe THAT'S why... They want the office to look like a Hot Topic or Go Jane... Yiiii....

 

[Aaron_W]

I'm sure halogen bulbs will be with us for quite some time yet. After all, it took nearly 40 years for Henry Ford to drive a stake into the heart of the last buggy whip company.


I'm sure there will be special purposes that will keep these techs around for some time, just as we have seen with incandescent lights.

Fluorescent on the other hand. I think that will be the lighting tech we see leave the market first. I've never met anybody that really likes the light it gives, and other than lower electrical consumption compared to incandescent it is not environmentally friendly. Few dispose of the bulbs properly leading to heavy metals contamination. I suspect this will soon become a target for environmentalists now that LED prices have dropped, and will continue to drop.

 

[Platonic Solid]

...now that LED prices have dropped, and will continue to drop.

Don't expect to see LED bulb and fixture prices go any lower than they are right now. You may get some special utility company sponsored rebate deals, but prices can really only go up from here.

 

[Aaron_W]

While I like the idea of using the LED bulbs to save energy, the one thing that bugs me is this arbitrary move to everything being 5500K High Intensity. I do have them over my stove where, like in my shop, the "daylight" light works... but living space? Office space? Not even.

They did that at work, the 20-somethings in facilities decided to switch everything from WW fluorescent to these 5500K LED tubes. My response was to put a yellow paper "barrier" between the grate and the tubes to soften the light. When facilities asked why I didn't just take a tube out, I had to explain color temperature to them, and they still didn't get it. I asked if I could put in my own WW LED tubes, to which they said no, because it "wasn't standard".

I get they're saving energy... but this makes my office look like an over-lit retail store in a mall somewhere... Hmmm... Store in a mall...

Maybe THAT'S why... They want the office to look like a Hot Topic or Go Jane... Yiiii....

That is a people issue, not the tech. LED is available in cool white, warm white, daylight etc pretty much all the same options as other lighting.
Some expert has decided that the 4000-5000 range makes workers more efficient. Probably the same ***** that decided open offices and shared work spaces make employees more likely to share ideas than having a semi-private work space.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Blue wavelength light suppresses melatonin production which will make you feel more awake and productive. Unfortunately it also messes with your circadian rhythm which causes sleep disorders.

 

[Aaron_W]

Don't expect to see LED bulb and fixture prices go any lower than they are right now. You may get some special utility company sponsored rebate deals, but prices can really only go up from here.

You are probably right, what I was really getting at was comparison pricing with other technology, not actual cost.

LED bulbs are nearly at the cost of CFLs now (haven't priced tubes). I expect you will see fluorescent pricing begin to increase as demand drops and environmental disposal fees are implemented to encourage cleaner lighting. Unlike incandescent I don't think you will see much push back against laws enacted to speed the removal of fluorescent technology.

 

[cybrdyke]

Of the two you asked about, Halogen will be the first to go and it will start in California. Halogen just cant meet the lumens per watt criteria that other light sources can. A 100w incandescent equivalent bulb in Halogen is 72 watts. Same equivalent bulb in LED is 14 watts. There will be some exceptions made for certain niche bulbs.
Metal Halide is alot more efficient than halogen, so it will get a stay of execution for now. Certain types of Metal Halide, like the older Probe Start styles might get banned in the next few years. Depends on LED product development in this sector.
Fluorescent will be around for a long long time. There are still billions of fluorescent sockets out there, and retrofitting them to LED will take a decade or more.
Alot of the really hard hitting energy legislation has already passed. The legislation that got rid of incandescent bulbs, T12 bulbs, Mercury Vapor bulbs...those were the biggest offenders. New legislation will have to be passed to raise the bar on lumens per watt.
CD

 

[Lassen Forge]

In some countries they capped the wattage of incandescent bulbs because they were energy-thirsty... I remember seeing 100 watt incandescent bulbs sold, not as lamps, but as "localized space heaters" to evade such regulations.

 

[cybrdyke]

In some countries they capped the wattage of incandescent bulbs because they were energy-thirsty... I remember seeing 100 watt incandescent bulbs sold, not as lamps, but as "localized space heaters" to evade such regulations.

They were called "HEATBALLS"

https://heatball.de/en/index.php

 

[Bert_]

In my opinion they went about the "lamp ban" or efficiency regulations all wrong. The right way would have been to add a tax to all lamps that were not deemed efficient enough. That would drive up the price and push consumers to other products, and the tax dollars could be used for planting trees or some other green effort.

I personally use mostly incandescent or magnetically ballasted fluorescent. I do have a halogen flood to light the driveway and one halogen in an A-19 package that I bought to try out. I think the ones I use the most are a 22w circline and a couple 25 and 40 watt incandescent bulbs.

I have bought a few different led's over the years but I after using them for a bit I have always gone back to the old tech.

Halogen and metal halide are completely different technologies. Metal halide's are what were common for years on high ceilings and quite a few outside lights. They put out a good white light but they do take a few minutes to warm up and if turned off they need to cool for 8-10 minutes before they will turn back on (restrike).

 

[ForceFed70]

Metal Halide tech isn't quite dead, it's pretty efficient and usually a good CRI/light quality. I'd use it if I had it. Typically whiter than 3k tho.

 

[Stumble]

In my opinion they went about the "lamp ban" or efficiency regulations all wrong. The right way would have been to add a tax to all lamps that were not deemed efficient enough. That would drive up the price and push consumers to other products, and the tax dollars could be used for planting trees or some other green effort.

I personally use mostly incandescent or magnetically ballasted fluorescent. I do have a halogen flood to light the driveway and one halogen in an A-19 package that I bought to try out. I think the ones I use the most are a 22w circline and a couple 25 and 40 watt incandescent bulbs.

I have bought a few different led's over the years but I after using them for a bit I have always gone back to the old tech.

Halogen and metal halide are completely different technologies. Metal halide's are what were common for years on high ceilings and quite a few outside lights. They put out a good white light but they do take a few minutes to warm up and if turned off they need to cool for 8-10 minutes before they will turn back on (restrike).

Agreed,

I think a 100w incandescent is around 1500 lumens. So if instead of banning incandescents they placed a tax on all light bulbs of $0.05/watt for all consumer lightbulbs it would have raised the price of incandescent bulbs to the same as LED's when the ban went into effect.

But it is the same problem as a carbon tax. Every economist agrees that it is the best way to reduce carbon emissions but half the government won't vote for it because they swore to never raise taxes, and the other half just wants to ban things.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I still have high hats here and there...
I believe the Par 30 75W were phased out or was getting astronomically high, a couple years back already, so I stockpiled on those. Did a small stash of Par 20's as well...

Strangely, we did do the High CRI LED for the Par30. I DO miss the coloration but we entertain alot, and the heat reduction is at least on the conservative side of 65-70% less with the leds. definately noticable difference. Even on a 40% angle flood, it felt like you were standing under a torch

 

[AntonLargiader]

Metal halide is bright, efficient and can have decent CRI compared to someother commercial options. I was happy to get away from my high-bays because of the buzz and the hotspots, but those are not problems everywhere.

At home, I have probably bought my last incandescent bulb. I've been replacing them with LED although it's hard to find a nice high CRI in every format. We have nice ones in our kitchen ceiling cans; they're on a dimmer and it's very noticeable that they dim to gray rather than orange as incandescent do, but it's not a big deal. We have high CRI LED MR16s over the dining table which is great. Still need to find a solution for the track lights in the kids' bedrooms. Those, like some others, I want to update more to reduce the burn hazard than anything else. The ones in our range hood get HOT!!! Easy for little hands to find some of these bulbs.

Some applications don't have a good LED substitute (like torchiere lamps) and the solution is just a different lamp/fixture/whatever. It's an opportunity for redesign.

Outdoor lights are mostly LED with two CFLs (slow to warm up in the cold). I have a floodlight that is halogen but it's only on for very short periods of time. We don't leave any outdoor lights on when they're not actively needed.

 

[86turbodsl]

Well, i saved money by dumping my big halides and going to T5HO. It's not dead tech, but it's not well suited for some usage cases. And the bulbs get dimmer over time and relight is a PITA.

 

[yeldogt]

Call me old school but I like 3K color....
I have tinkered with many, I still prefer old school halogen Par, Xenon for undercabs, PAR or even metal halide 50/75 for our laundry room.

I even stockpiled about 2 dozen of each, assuming its phase out

Seems like the younger generation just likes white/blue light.....


In all fairness, I have put LED on our outdoors, and for the kitchen, replaced the Par30 for high CRI led. It's close in color but missing 2-3 levels of warmth that halogen gives. However, the heat reduction is huge, which is the biggest noticeable difference for use.

I'm with you.

I'm gut rehabbing and expanding a property that is going to be my permanent residence. While I liked the Aculux recessed lights (LED module) (MR16) my lighting architect uses .. the cost at over $600 a fixture was a bit much and I still could not get an overall match with other products that are going into the house ... and the control situation became impossible. I like layers of light and the dimming LED's even with color shift just don't cut it.

Nothing looks as good IMO as high end halogen bulbs ... So I'm doing old school. The recessed with LED modules do work ... it's the cost and integration that's impossible. The one good thing about the shift to LED's -- was able to get very high end $400 MR16 cases and trim for about 1/4 of the price a few years ago. I did stock up on replacement bulbs.

 

[jives]

$25 for a 20,000 lumen 250W metal halide lamp. Cheap lumens, at least to buy. For now they light my 20 foot high ceiling. Overall, 3 metal halide high bays are putting out about 50,000 lumens, and cost me a total of $50 at auction. Not a long term fix, but for now a good solution.

 

[gtae07]

I guess I'm the oddball that prefers 5000K. All the lights in the house have been retrofit now. And I have 6500K fluorescents in the shop (which will go to LED when they die).

3000K feels too warm, and I spent long enough in windowless offices lit at that temp. Give me daylight.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

MH is good tech, but electronic ballasts are expensive, magnetic ballasts are noisy, and remote magnetic ballasts are cumbersome. I like the light quality/CRI, too. any fixture you want to put a 50/75W MH in requires re-basing with a 600V rated ceramic base, and hiding a ballast somewhere.

I have a handful of 4000K 80W(actual) CFLs in my garage - feels very neutral. 3k is too warm and 5500k is too blue unless you have enough lumens to need sunglasses.

Halogen I like if I want heat, too. most of the T3 bulb fixtures seem to corrode out too fast for me to like them, and they're too expensive to operate per lumen for me to enjoy having them around in the house.

 

[Aaron_W]

Some applications don't have a good LED substitute (like torchiere lamps) and the solution is just a different lamp/fixture/whatever. It's an opportunity for redesign.

I did like those Halogen torchieres, they have a nice bright indirect light. I don't miss the smoke column from the occasional wayward moth or fly.