Is Harbor Freight reading GJ

[Hiball]

It is possible to support your country and fellow workers, and not spend yourself into the poor house. The two are not mutually exclusive.

John

No Disrespect intended John but how is Buying from HF or any other Import tool not supporting your country and fellow worker? It seems to be a popular belief that American workers who unload the Cargo ships, Transport the cargo ships to the Railyards/Truckers, Deliver the Cargo to there destination or Warehouse, Then unload the Cargo containers, Then distribute the contents to the Store which is owned and employs american workers is not supporting your fellow workers? I just dont get it.. I guess. We are not talking about just a couple hundered jobs, We are talking about MILLIONS of Jobs across america.

Oh yeah LOL at Social Security.. Im so glad i dont have to pay in to that debacle.

 

[mrholeshot]

That's OK. I used to own a bunch of British cars and still have my Lucas smoke replacement kit. For those of you who do not own one, they are described in this article and come in very handy once the smoke escapes from your electrical equipment:

Lucas smoke kit




LOL Actually, both seem to fit........

My first job outside my fathers garage was a MG/Triumph/ Jaguar/Fiat dealer Never a lack of work in that shop.

 

[JohnFreeman]

No Disrespect intended John but how is Buying from HF or any other Import tool not supporting your country and fellow worker? It seems to be a popular belief that American workers who unload the Cargo ships, Transport the cargo ships to the Railyards/Truckers, Deliver the Cargo to there destination or Warehouse, Then unload the Cargo containers, Then distribute the contents to the Store which is owned and employs american workers is not supporting your fellow workers? I just dont get it.. I guess. We are not talking about just a couple hundered jobs, We are talking about MILLIONS of Jobs across america.

Oh yeah LOL at Social Security.. Im so glad i dont have to pay in to that debacle.

Well you're right of course, it's all a matter of degree. I just like to support the companies like Bondhus, Channelock, and the like who still have Americans making stuff, not just moving it around.

I also believe that it's good to remember China is not our friend, and in the long run we will surely pay for the temporary convenience of having low cost stuff to buy....

 

[Hiball]

I also believe that it's good to remember China is not our friend, and in the long run we will surely pay for the temporary convenience of having low cost stuff to buy....

I agree 100% but we have to take baby steps, We need as a country to start making things here again. God knows we have the Manpower, Knowledge and as much as dislike Government intervention we need them to offer a helping hand to help Manufacturing jobs here. Its udderly rediculus at the amount of items Imported into this country and as you probably know Tools are at the very bottom of this list. I know its a popular debate here at GJ but realistically its a small portion of the problem.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

My first job outside my fathers garage was a MG/Triumph/ Jaguar/Fiat dealer Never a lack of work in that shop.

In our family we had a Sunbeam Minx, Alpine and Tiger, a Triumph GT6 and a couple of MGB's and one bugeye Sprite. Fixing Lucas electrics was a full time job at the garage in the early 70's.... I still remember removing the starter on that Alpine. It was actually easier to pull the engine and ****** to get to it instead of pulling 3/4 of the engine apart in the car.

Come to think of it, I wonder if those retired Lucas engineers moved to China.........

 

[JohnFreeman]

Come to think of it, I wonder if those retired Lucas engineers moved to China.........

We can only hope!

 

[X1 Mike]

Seriously! mrholsehot and David from Florida have been bringing us some great content in this area recently. Stuff you just wont find anywhere else.

These comparo's are for all intents and purposes statistically useless. A sample size of one is merely an observation.

 

[Hiball]

These comparo's are for all intents and purposes statistically useless. A sample size of one is merely an observation.

So dont read them, I can respect the time and effort the members put into the creating a thread. I personally find them interesting, Jesus man this is a garage discussion journal not NASA.

 

[X1 Mike]

So dont read them, I can respect the time and effort the members put into the creating a thread. I personally find them interesting, Jesus man this is a garage discussion journal not NASA.

Didn't say they weren't interesting, but you do know that no two tools from any manufacturer are identical right? They are interesting observations nothing more nothing less.

 

[Hiball]

Didn't say they weren't interesting, but you do know that no two tools from any manufacturer are identical right? They are interesting observations nothing more nothing less.

I wouldnt think there would be that much difference between say a Snap on S80 built the 20th of July and one that was built Today? I realize using Used tools along with changing any 1 small detail will throw the test completely off and its possible to grab a ratchet that had a bad paw or weak spring. To properly conduct a test you would need to use multiples of the same Ratchet to get a effective reading average across the board. We are poor here at GJ so im satisfied with using 1 of each brand.

 

[X1 Mike]

I wouldnt think there would be that much difference between say a Snap on S80 built the 20th of July and one that was built Today? I realize using Used tools along with changing any 1 small detail will throw the test completely off and its possible to grab a ratchet that had a bad paw or weak spring. To properly conduct a test you would need to use multiples of the same Ratchet to get a effective reading average across the board. We are poor here at GJ so im satisfied with using 1 of each brand.

If the same tools from the same manufacturer are always going to be the same why would they pull random ones off of the line to check them on a CMM? I was just trying to bring up the realities of a sample size of one.

 

[Bull]

These comparo's are for all intents and purposes statistically useless. A sample size of one is merely an observation.

This isn't a lab. It's a discussion forum. The posters I mentioned and the tests they are conducting are more thorough than what most of the casual (and perhaps even pro) wrenches are ever going to conduct. What are you doing?

 

[Hiball]

I like blueberries.

 

[EZH]

. . .I got the distinct impression that no more criticism of HF was allowed at GJ...

Yea me too.

 

[Hiball]

Yea me too.

Its all propaganda, This is a Tool discussion forum. With that said lets try and respect other members views and choices, Its not a hard concept to grasp.

 

[EZH]

Its all propaganda, This is a Tool discussion forum. With that said lets try and respect other members views and choices, Its not a hard concept to grasp.

Roger that.

Eric

 

[Vinko]

Oh yeah LOL at Social Security.. Im so glad i dont have to pay in to that debacle.

Ah, just when we were discussing tools...But never mind...

 

[Skin]

These comparo's are for all intents and purposes statistically useless. A sample size of one is merely an observation.

rather than trolling those types of threads you can take it upon yourself to do comparisons yourself and post the results. Provided you had no agenda and were honest about the results i know i'd listen.

By the way with the invention of this thing called automatic mass manufacturing where all the production is handled by some new fangled gadgetry, tools are indeed quite identical. Stuff isnt hand made in a foundry and hand press anymore, even at snap-on.


Personally i've seen numerous threads praising the tool junk shop that is harbor freight, with the pass/fail thread being one of the largest collections. It certainly isnt just 1 or 2 "observations" that a good amount of their products actually perform their job admirably. I only see people like you constantly berating and bashing without any first hand experience as to the quality of a particular item.

 

[z28snksknr]

Just to clear myself in case anyone looks at pics of my garage and spots my bright orange HF grinder, I do buy HF tools, eventhough I don't like them and think they are lower quality and in some cases borderline junk (see the HF pass/fail thread for support of this).

I just don't think I can change my mind about their stuff to think of them as quality tools. It doesn't mean I won't buy a cheap tool from them I may only need once or twice. It means that if I need a tool to last and stand up to rigourous use, I'm not looking to them as an option. On the other hand, if they make a sturdy box with drawers that hold tools at a fraction of the price as other brands of comparable quality, I'm intersted.

Oh, and I can't get enough of the tool comparisons / testing. I could care less if it's a "sample size of 1". There are brand inherent designs present that are being evaluated. Variances due to manufacturing tolerances are not going to make a Wright wrench (the clear top performer in my mind) look like a cheap chinese wrench. Be realistic, or do your own "Comparison of 75 Identical Craftsman Wrenches" and see how much fun that thread turns out.

 

[mrholeshot]

I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to say or even thing that Harbor Freight has the best tools. They don't but most people with an IQ of 60 or better knows that when they walk through the door. While a sample size of one may be a fluke there is some thing don't change from tool to tool and thats the design. When I was doing my ratchet shootout the first Craftsman ratchet failed miserably. I thought maybe just maybe it was just a bad ratchet. After trying several other (also brand new and never used) I came to the conclusion the ratchet is a peice of junk. Craftsman has lowered the standards. I had new Craftsman ratchets in all my road boxes because they are cheap and if I lose one I'm not heart broken or stressed about it. The fact is I no longer trust them for roadside repairs. I've tested enough of the Harbor Freight Snap-On copies that I trust they will do the job when and if I need it. Several of their ratchets I tested I didn't care for. I'm very unbiased when it comes to testing because I don't worship any tool company or it's tools. I like whats the best tool I can buy for the least amount of money.

As a working auto techncian for well over 40 years Ive gone through many tools and used just about every brand. When it come to tools that I use constanly and are in my hands at least 1 hour of each day I prefer Snap-On. It's commercial grade and made for the professional. It's overkill for the basic DIY person. Harbor Freight caters to that segment of the population. It's a fun place to shop. Some people choose to go out on Sat Night and drink their money up. some choose to sniff theirhard earned money up their nose and some choose to gamble away there money. Me, I like to go to HF and just look around. I may find something of interest and it's not often I don't walk out with something. It is what it is.
Somethings I've purchaced in HF I'm absolutly shocked as to how well it's really made. I have no expectations that it will be and sometimes things turn out to be a pile. If you look hard enough in the pass/fail thread you can see that a trend develops over some paticular products. Bottom line is It's not all good but it's not all bad either

 

[caper]

I'm with Mr Holeshot.Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's total ****.I've been using tools long enough to usually be able to gauge the quality when I hold it in my hand.Do I prefer my more expensive brands?Sure,for most things I'm using everyday I try to buy quality.On the other hand I enjoy checking out a Princess Auto,actually went to my first HF last week,and I usually am able to find something in the store that is decent enough quality to bring home.I'm not a tool snob,if the tool gets the job done it's a good tool in my book.

 

[djkyle65]

Dang i wanted to pick up one of those carts for 149 to bad the tent event prices are not valid in Texas.... Blah

 

[Vinko]

rather than trolling those types of threads you can take it upon yourself to do comparisons yourself and post the results. Provided you had no agenda and were honest about the results i know i'd listen.

By the way with the invention of this thing called automatic mass manufacturing where all the production is handled by some new fangled gadgetry, tools are indeed quite identical. Stuff isnt hand made in a foundry and hand press anymore, even at snap-on.


Personally i've seen numerous threads praising the tool junk shop that is harbor freight, with the pass/fail thread being one of the largest collections. It certainly isnt just 1 or 2 "observations" that a good amount of their products actually perform their job admirably. I only see people like you constantly berating and bashing without any first hand experience as to the quality of a particular item.

I think Mike has a point about consistency and need for very large sample to get something that begins to approach an accurate understanding. Didn't see this message as a troll at all. I'd wager that even the pass/fail thread is merely a small sample in the larger scheme of things.

 

[Bolster]

Not to get statistical on you, but variability is easily measured. If you find there's high consistency among products you can test a small sample and be confident. If you find there's low consistency (=high variability) then you have to test a larger sample.

So, practically speaking, it would be nice to test at least 3 of something. If all 3 are behaving pretty much the same, then good enough. If you get variability within that 3, then test more.

You can see the variability in the HF Pass/Fail thread. Some people give a tool a pass, some give it a fail. The question is: is the tool the variable, or is it the reviewer?