Is Harbor Freight turning a corner?

[zendriver]

GDP is a metric that favors exporting countries, which we are, but not what we used to be. The fact we have recovered a bit in the GDP metric is an encouragement, but much of that recovery plowed money into automation, not into low paying manufacturing jobs. The winners there were engineers, technicians and skilled trades people.

The government switched to using GNP. Comparing either to household income, even divided by household? There are too many disconnects to make any sense of such a comparison. The real sadness there is not that one went up and the other didn't, but that household income wan't going up during the Great Recession. The last 5.5 years are missing from that chart. I'd really like to see that graphed. It's not unusual for household incomes to lag by a couple of years, as companies squeeze efficiencies first before hiring.

Do you think the red line is a good one? Just curious, since my point was people buy cheap since they don't have a lot of money.

It's been 9 years since the crash and the wages are not there. How much "squeezing do they need to do?

 

[Musicinabottle]

It's the normal cycle....

In the 70's, the joke was "Made in Japan"
In the 80's, the joke was "Made in Taiwan"
In the 90's, the joke was "Made in Korea"
In the 2000's, the joke was "Made in China"

The current joke (and truth)....if you talk to a customer support person....you know they are in India. They all know English....work hard and are sharp....

Is "Made in India" next?

Let's just hope "Made in America" never becomes a joke. We can't sit on our *** and ride the wave. Otherwise, that wave will end and we end up stranded on the beach.

In many regards, the Japanese made better stuff than America in the 1970s and 80s. Toyota is just one such example. Compare that to the **** that America was producing then. Electronics is another. Japan for the most part took American designs and concepts and made them better and cheaper.

 

[HanShotFirst]

In the good ole days of Craftsman, they have a little bit of everything. Quality was good, but it was all considered “consumer grade”, and for the most part it was consumer grade plus. Mechanics tools were very well machined/broached, chrome was good, had a good feel, but they weren’t what you would call brute strong. Back in the say, every truck tool dealer had a drawer full of broken CM tools to show people…and all the more experienced mechanics would tell you that CM was great for home, but wasn’t going to hold up to a professional wrench turner.

Power tools, again they were good (very good by todays standards), but not always the best. The cool thing was, Craftsman brought otherwise industrial tools to the home garage. The Atlas made metal lathes caught just as much **** as Chinese origin tools catch today; maybe even more. People said the Zamak gears were garbage pot metal that wouldn’t hold up for more than a year. Now, there are many (myself included) who have 75+ year old Atlas lathes with Zamak gears that are running just as well as they did when they were bought.

Perception of quality is an intangible, but it’s a very important thing for the American tool buyer. Back to the CM raised panel wrenches…most of the new CM wrenches that look like ****, are much stronger than the old US made CM’s…but they look like ****, so the perception is…they’re ****.

Much of the complaints that people have about HF’s quality is actually the perception of quality. Those perceptions were sometimes formed over 25 years ago when HF did indeed import some real garbage. But today, HF’s quality continues to increase while many other brands are going down. I really think HF is on the way to being the modern embodiment of what Craftsman used to be. Import tools are here to stay, so rather than cry about something that’s not going to change, HF is looking for ways to bring higher quality along with high affordability.

I personally love HF even though I always prefer to buy US tools. What I love about HF is they are a real tool store in a day and age where brick & mortar stores are either on their way out, or heavily threatened. I do my fair share of internet shopping, but it’s really nice to know you can get in your car and go get what it is that you need right now…that’s becoming ever increasingly a less common thing.

 

[AirJunky]

I figured quality at HF was plenty good enough to get them a descent rep & build a big customer base. I have quite a few of their tools that are years old & not had issues. ATV winch got replaced under warranty & the new one has been great. Chop saw has trimmed out 2 houses & done dozens of other projects without any issues. Even the ratchets I bought there years ago are still working great.
Looks like their trying to ramp up their cordless tools these days. Hope they prove to be reliable too.

 

[zendriver]

In many regards, the Japanese made better stuff than America in the 1970s and 80s. Toyota is just one such example. Compare that to the **** that America was producing then. Electronics is another. Japan for the most part took American designs and concepts and made them better and cheaper.

Pretty much true and the Chinese have done the exact same thing, except on steroids.

The Japanese at least used to be obsessed with quality and engineering, so that is harder to match with their Chinese neighbors, but they are beaten badly on labor costs and product pricing, just like everybody else.

 

[zendriver]

Looks like their trying to ramp up their cordless tools these days. Hope they prove to be reliable too.

Checked out their Hercules demos at the nice brand-new store in Warsaw.

If they are junk they sure don't feel like junk, quite the opposite. GF want the dril for Xmas, but now I'm worried it's better than my Craftsman.

 

[jd_1138]

Checked out their Hercules demos at the nice brand-new store in Warsaw.

If they are junk they sure don't feel like junk, quite the opposite. GF want the dril for Xmas, but now I'm worried it's better than my Craftsman.

It is probably the same quality as the Craftsman. I'd buy Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Ridgid before the Hercules or Bauer stuff. You can get them on sale for less or the same price as the Hercules.

 

[sberry]

Much of the complaints that people have about HF’s quality is actually the perception of quality. Those perceptions were sometimes formed over 25 years ago when HF did indeed import some real garbage. But today, HF’s quality continues to increase while many other brands are going down. I really think HF is on the way to being the modern embodiment of what Craftsman used to be. Import tools are here to stay, so rather than cry about something that’s not going to change, HF is looking for ways to bring higher quality along with high affordability.

Ridgid before the Hercules or Bauer stuff.

Ridgid, same stuff made in the same place. The first quote is right on, HF has been getting way better for just a little more money. I for one would rather spend a few more dollars for something better, China or not. Its 10% more and not 10X more, big difference in math. If I can buy a good wrench for 3 and the cheapest is 2 but junk I am not buying the 2 cause its cheaper. I am however liking the fact I can buy the 3 that is quite good vs the premium that is 30.

 

[sberry]

It has been long enough now that we see some history and the failure of the common cheap hand tool has been greatly exaggerated. I am a "professional" the stuff is lasting way beyond what we expected it to and some of it looks near indefinite. Its been in service so long now that we don't discriminate when we need a wrench, have full faith its going to work and the only way I ever busticated one was with extreme mechanical advantage.
Vendor shopping has changed too. Every once in a while Walmart has a sale on some uber cheap heaters and toasters but the tools are somewhat consistent and they carry some brands. But they got people in China,,, they want to sell a sub 30$ 1/2 socket set and **** is 4$ and good is 4.50 they buy the good or better. They can find cheaper but they don't want to be a warranty return center for the crude crowd and have to deal with a busted socket 5 minutes after its sold from Bubba leaning on it with a 1/2 HF bar.
For just a little more than the cheapest you can get a clone set of chrome wrenches that are super good. If you couldn't read couldn't tell them from the real deal.
I bought a single a while back, probably over paid but a long combo Husky or something, 3$ and its really finely made. You really got to look to see its not a premium wrench and it kind of stands out.
I noticed my Cman DBE 18 is gone and am at the mercy of one combo in the shop. I got 3 or 4 of everything else but that.

 

[zendriver]

It is probably the same quality as the Craftsman. I'd buy Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Ridgid before the Hercules or Bauer stuff. You can get them on sale for less or the same price as the Hercules.

That's good news, since my 19.2v Cmans have worked great for years now.

Many of the name brands you mentioned, have some models, now made in China as well, or even Mexico, two countries in which many here will attest, automatically means low quality.

Name your poison.

 

[guy48065]

And HF is having an impact on the other low-end competition. If not for HF prices I doubt Lowes would have a $10 24V Li-ion battery pack (Kobalt). Even HF doesn't have one that cheap.