Is ICON the new Craftsman?

[username2]

It seems to me that it's more marketing mindshare than anything.

I need to go track down some kid with a Gen Z haircut and ask him where he'd buy a socket set.

There's a basic flaw in my plan, but it might work.

 

[Meursault74]

When I was a teen, Craftsman ruled. Affordable, and other than the ratchets, good enough, as well as easy to get. Harbor Freight as a whole has replaced the Sears tool department, but Icon hasn't replaced Craftsman. Realistically, Icon is better than the normal Craftsman was. Craftsman Professional might have been better than Icon, but I couldn't afford that stuff.

It might just be a coincidence, but at one time we had two Sears stores, while those are both long gone, we now have two Harbor Freights and they are both within two or three blocks of where the Sears stores were. One is even in the same parking lot, but in a different strip mall and the other is across the street.

Harbor Freight hasn't replaced Sears. I don't think anyone will ever walk into a HF to warranty a ratchet and walk out with a new TV and one of those new fangled VCR machines like I did once at Sears. I tell my 15 year old about Sears and he has a hard time believing there was a store that was a one stop shop for everything except groceries.

That made me remember one of my last trips to my local Sears before they closed. I bought some bar clamps and some crew socks at the same time. At the time, I guess I didn't realize how awesome that was.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I get it. If we call snap on 100% quality at 100% pricing, Icon 90% quality at 20% pricing, why not Pittsburgh Pro for 80% quality at 3% pricing.

If you're not gonna go full tilt, tilt as little as possible.

That seems like a much condensed, less verbose, and generally superior description of what I was saying. LOL


Maybe it was Fedwrench who said something like - "never have people had an opportunity to buy such good quality tools for such little money". I have a set of Tekton wrenches downstairs in my garage. Frankly, they kind of **** through the lens of Wright grip and the other big dogs. Fit is okay, a lot of lead-in taper on the box, etc. But man those things are cheap, available, and I can still swap a set of struts in a Camry with them. For my home garage? A big thumbs up to Tekton. And they're a lot better than some other options I've used in my life. There's a base floor of acceptability, in the wrench example the $9.99 Pittsburgh branded ones probably sit near the unusable range. Poor fit, super thin, don't dare double wrench them. But there's a ton of places to get a good wrench at least as good as the 'ol raised panel Craftsman which is somehow the standard. A raised panel is rather ****** compared to a Proto in my experience. But it sure looks like Snap-On compared to the Pittsburgh. And there's a lot of stuff in the tekton-ish price range of good quality, reliable, and available.

 

[neophyte]

When I was a teen, Craftsman ruled. Affordable, and other than the ratchets, good enough, as well as easy to get. Harbor Freight as a whole has replaced the Sears tool department, but Icon hasn't replaced Craftsman. Realistically, Icon is better than the normal Craftsman was. Craftsman Professional might have been better than Icon, but I couldn't afford that stuff.

It might just be a coincidence, but at one time we had two Sears stores, while those are both long gone, we now have two Harbor Freights and they are both within two or three blocks of where the Sears stores were. One is even in the same parking lot, but in a different strip mall and the other is across the street.

Harbor Freight hasn't replaced Sears. I don't think anyone will ever walk into a HF to warranty a ratchet and walk out with a new TV and one of those new fangled VCR machines like I did once at Sears. I tell my 15 year old about Sears and he has a hard time believing there was a store that was a one stop shop for everything except groceries.

“I tell my 15 year old about Sears and he has a hard time believing there was a store that was a one stop shop for everything except groceries.”

Sears was nothing in the 1990s, compared to some older major department stores located in major cities.
Even the major department stores I went to were a pale comparison to “the glory days” of department stores in the early 20th century.
Large department stores used to have everything from electronics, to records, to books (as in full bookstores, with both new and used books) to multiple jewelry dealers, carrying everything from cheap jewelry, to gold and platinum. There might also be antique departments within the department stores, and a department for furs, and “sporting goods” (ie. Firearms), and kitchenware sections, with everything from Pyrex and Corningware, to imported hand painted China, and flatware from stainless steel, to sterling silver.
In addition, there were barbers and hairdressers, and multiple restaurants, from lunch counters to suite and tie fine restaurants, all within the same department store.

Sears was nice, but the major thing separating it from other department stores during the later 20th century was the tool and hardware department, which most other department stores had basically given up on, or shrunk to practically nothing.
The “giant” Department store basically got killed off by malls, and Sears was one of the major left over “Giant Department Stores”.

 

[dchawk81]

That seems like a much condensed, less verbose, and generally superior description of what I was saying. LOL

I was critized by an English teacher for being too terse. My final paper was a long winded rant about how much her class sucked.

Let's also be fair. If you weren't John Steinbeck, I couldn't be Cliff's Notes.

 

[dchawk81]

It seems to me that it's more marketing mindshare than anything.

I need to go track down some kid with a Gen Z haircut and ask him where he'd buy a socket set.

There's a basic flaw in my plan, but it might work.

I like this plan, and if you film it for TikTok I will finally download the app to watch.

(Please put it on YouTube instead)

 

[dchawk81]

“I tell my 15 year old about Sears and he has a hard time believing there was a store that was a one stop shop for everything except groceries.”

Sears was nothing in the 1990s, compared to some older major department stores located in major cities.
Even the major department stores I went to were a pale comparison to “the glory days” of department stores in the early 20th century.
Large department stores used to have everything from electronics, to records, to books (as in full bookstores, with both new and used books) to multiple jewelry dealers, carrying everything from cheap jewelry, to gold and platinum. There might also be antique departments within the department stores, and a department for furs, and “sporting goods” (ie. Firearms), and kitchenware sections, with everything from Pyrex and Corningware, to imported hand painted China, and flatware from stainless steel, to sterling silver.
In addition, there were barbers and hairdressers, and multiple restaurants, from lunch counters to suite and tie fine restaurants, all within the same department store.

Sears was nice, but the major thing separating it from other department stores during the later 20th century was the tool and hardware department, which most other department stores had basically given up on, or shrunk to practically nothing.
The “giant” Department store basically got killed off by malls, and Sears was one of the major left over “Giant Department Stores”.

You would really blow his mind if you showed him the bra second in the catalog.

 

[mngundog]

I remember Harbor Freight coming to town with a Semi in the parking lot of the VFW, setting up shop on folding tables.

 

[dchawk81]

I remember Harbor Freight coming to town with a Semi in the parking lot of the VFW, setting up shop on folding tables.

I don't remember the semi but I remember the tents, the tables, pulling directly from the cardboard boxes, and the electrical tape that wouldn't even stick to itself.

 

[dchawk81]

I was only 12 years old and to me it was an obvious traveling circus of garbage.

 

[demarpaint]

It sure seems that way, and the quality of HF tools is improving.

 

[zendriver]

Yeah I don't recommend it until you can afford it. I didn't start getting SO until I was in my 40s.

What inexpensive tools did you start out with as a professional mechanic?

Just curious

 

[dchawk81]

What inexpensive tools did you start out with as a professional mechanic?

Just curious

I was never a professional mechanic and I got a late start even fixing my own stuff.

My first main tools was a Kobalt "mechanics" set of sockets and ratchets. I still have and use it. I had random hodge podges of wrenches bought as the need arose. The more involved I got the more tools I acquired including things from HF like an engine hoist.

My dad was the professional mechanic who owned a 4 bay shop next to the family home.

I don't remember what he had. He says it was a lot of Craftsman. That was the mid or late 70s into the early 90s though. Long before the Sears went TU.

 

[mikey03]

At my local Sears, the tool section was staffed by retired engineers, mechanics, ex-army vets from Viet Nam. They were strait laced, short haired guys from another era.

meanwhile at HF last month the 20 y/o girl with the cattle nose ring who never turned a screwdriver in her life refused to scan my regular coupon saying the system only allowed it for ITC members if I wanted to give her the commission to sign me up for membership she’d scan my coupon. Tbh she didn’t mention the commission part but that was the scam

honestly I hate HF

 

[dchawk81]

meanwhile at HF last month the 20 y/o girl with the cattle nose ring who never turned a screwdriver in her life refused to scan my regular coupon saying the system only allowed it for ITC members if I wanted to give her the commission to sign me up for membership she’d scan my coupon. Tbh she didn’t mention the commission part but that was the scam

honestly I hate HF

She cute tho.

 

[rust in the eye]

I was referring to using tools professionally, which is the role of both snap on and icon

Unfortunately, we all know that, even though your current set up is adequate, you would receive more than your fair share of “stink eye” using that set up in a professional environment


Just the way it is

Agreed. Peer pressure is the tool truck's best salesman.
Some don't GAF and let their work speak for them rather than a big mortgaged box full of aspirational brands. I'll always contend that the contents of a mechanic's skull is vastly more important than that of his tool kit.

 

[rust in the eye]

meanwhile at HF last month the 20 y/o girl with the cattle nose ring who never turned a screwdriver in her life refused to scan my regular coupon saying the system only allowed it for ITC members if I wanted to give her the commission to sign me up for membership she’d scan my coupon. Tbh she didn’t mention the commission part but that was the scam

honestly I hate HF

Like most retailers HF employs an exploitable workforce. Chances are that nosering gal hasn't much education and even if she did would be unemployable in many places due to her fashion choices.


You imply she asked for you to pay her off in order to validate the coupon, but then say no. Clearly, you wish to disparage.
Were you eligible for the coupon? Was it for members only? Are you a member? I'm guessing not. So perhaps you were attempting to freeload and got busted by nosering gal. What say you?
Speaking of "never turning a screwdriver" your threads imply same.

The store near me has some very nice people working there who have always been accomodating. There are a few faces that have been there quite a long time, this is a sign of a good manager.


Is Icon the new Craftsman? Not in my opinion. HF does fill the niche Sears once did for tools.

 

[jhendric]

I feel like Lowe's and HD more equate Sears of old. To me Sears Craftsman of the 90s/0Xs was about mid level tools that a homeowner could depend on to last. That seems to be the space Lowes/HD occupy now, albeit in a multi-vendor approach. Kobalt/Husky specifically fit that bill. Shoot, Lowes even carries clothes now.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Agreed. Peer pressure is the tool truck's best salesman.
Some don't GAF and let their work speak for them rather than a big mortgaged box full of aspirational brands. I'll always contend that the contents of a mechanic's skull is vastly more important than that of his tool kit.

I think it's less peer pressure, and more new techs being "NEW SHINY MUST SPEND ALL MONEY", which generally matches their financial choices in other areas. You're talking 18-25? Not known generally for excellent money management as a demographic.

To me the tool truck account is always a symptom, not a cause. Same people have thousands in personal loans, late bills, cars they bought for 2/3 of their gross yearly income, rent to own couches, etc. Plenty of people have little/no debt for anything let alone tools. Another big factor I see is just laziness, they refuse to spend 90 minutes on a HF trip so they spend 10x or more on the tool truck. Although the inverse of that is the guy with little/no tools because he's lazy and cheap - his output ***** because he doesn't have the tools he needs to be efficient.


The skill/brains versus tools generally true but there's some practicality to just needing the tools. If I have a dial indicator and you don't, I can conceivably learn how to use it. It doesn't matter if you know how, you don't have one so you're excluded from completing a job which requires one.

 

[cosmokenney]

For ratchets I would go with GearWrench. The 90 tooth ratchets are very nice and Project Farm on YouTube found them to be some of the best all around.

 

[mikey03]

You imply she asked for you to pay her off in order to validate the coupon, but then say no. Clearly, you wish to disparage.
Were you eligible for the coupon? Was it for members only? Are you a member? I'm guessing not. So perhaps you were attempting to freeload and got busted by nosering gal. What say you?

I am not a member. But it was not a members only coupon. It was directly emailed to me by HF. I used it the next day with a different cashier no problem.

she didn’t say it didn’t apply she said our system isn’t working with those coupons unless your ITC and you can sign up right now with me and the coupon will work and she was acting in a way that made me think she was trying for a commission.

But she didn’t try the coupon. It would have worked. I feel dumb for not asking her to try it but next day I went back and they scanned it no problem. She was scamming me

 

[neophyte]

meanwhile at HF last month the 20 y/o girl with the cattle nose ring who never turned a screwdriver in her life refused to scan my regular coupon saying the system only allowed it for ITC members if I wanted to give her the commission to sign me up for membership she’d scan my coupon. Tbh she didn’t mention the commission part but that was the scam

honestly I hate HF

Practically every Harbor Freight employee I’ve met has been very polite and friendly, if maybe not always incredibly competent, although there was usually another employee around when competence was needed.

 

[Skellyii]

Totally random question, not trying to start a flame war, just asking a question:

I was a child in the 60s and 70s and of course remember the Sears store tool and hardware sections. One of my older cousins worked there, so we got the employee discount.

My dad and one of my uncles turned wrenches for a living...NOT dealership mechanics, just for neighborhood garages, i.e. "Larry's Garage" is where he worked until he got a short-lived dealership gig (bankruptcy). From what I have left of their tools, it seems to be Craftsman, with a smattering of SK and Blackhawk.

I remember there were grocery stores selling Globemaster tools, but even as a child they seemed to me to be worthless ****.

Supposedly, during that time Craftsman was a DIY homeowner thing. What was the competition? I remember the Western Auto stuff, but who else was competing for that market at that time?


Thanks!

 

[M635_Guy]

I think it's less peer pressure, and more new techs being "NEW SHINY MUST SPEND ALL MONEY", which generally matches their financial choices in other areas. You're talking 18-25? Not known generally for excellent money management as a demographic.

To me the tool truck account is always a symptom, not a cause. Same people have thousands in personal loans, late bills, cars they bought for 2/3 of their gross yearly income, rent to own couches, etc. Plenty of people have little/no debt for anything let alone tools. Another big factor I see is just laziness, they refuse to spend 90 minutes on a HF trip so they spend 10x or more on the tool truck. Although the inverse of that is the guy with little/no tools because he's lazy and cheap - his output ***** because he doesn't have the tools he needs to be efficient.


The skill/brains versus tools generally true but there's some practicality to just needing the tools. If I have a dial indicator and you don't, I can conceivably learn how to use it. It doesn't matter if you know how, you don't have one so you're excluded from completing a job which requires one.

I think it's a combination of indirect/direct peer pressure (you see a lot of the sentiment here too - "professional must have professional (truck) hand tools!" added to the lure of the easy account.

I am not a member. But it was not a members only coupon. It was directly emailed to me by HF. I used it the next day with a different cashier no problem.

she didn’t say it didn’t apply she said our system isn’t working with those coupons unless your ITC and you can sign up right now with me and the coupon will work and she was acting in a way that made me think she was trying for a commission.

But she didn’t try the coupon. It would have worked. I feel dumb for not asking her to try it but next day I went back and they scanned it no problem. She was scamming me

That's ****. If anyone tried something like that on me, I'd walk straight over to the manager's office.

I live in the Raleigh, NC area, and I'm guessing the regional managers work here or near here as I've seen them multiple times over several years. Maybe that explains why nearly all the staff of the stores I go to in the area seem to be pretty knowledgeable, on top of their game and polite. I got one grump-*** once, but haven't seen him at the store since (which might just be luck). There are a couple folks at the store closest to me who have been there for years.

 

[M635_Guy]

Totally random question, not trying to start a flame war, just asking a question:

I was a child in the 60s and 70s and of course remember the Sears store tool and hardware sections. One of my older cousins worked there, so we got the employee discount.

My dad and one of my uncles turned wrenches for a living...NOT dealership mechanics, just for neighborhood garages, i.e. "Larry's Garage" is where he worked until he got a short-lived dealership gig (bankruptcy). From what I have left of their tools, it seems to be Craftsman, with a smattering of SK and Blackhawk.

I remember there were grocery stores selling Globemaster tools, but even as a child they seemed to me to be worthless ****.

Supposedly, during that time Craftsman was a DIY homeowner thing. What was the competition? I remember the Western Auto stuff, but who else was competing for that market at that time?


Thanks!

I think that's a pretty great question actually. The home stores weren't as built-out as they are today, and the first things to pop in my head were "Ace Hardware" and "Northern Tool" for chains. I don't know how far either goes back, but recall them once I became a homeowner in the 1990's. Before they existed, I'd guess it was the local hardware store.

Growing up in the 70's/80's in Wilmington, NC, the owner of a small hardware store lived up the street from us. It was a cool chaos that I always loved wandering around in when I went with my dad as he was doing a full renovation of an 1850's home. 8 months ago we bought a sorta-needy home from the 80's, and I've discovered a family-run store with the same awesome chaos not too far away, and I've made it my go-to for just about everything home-related if they carry it.

But stores like that are nearly extinct - all of the brothers that own that store are well into their 60's, and I can't tell if any of their kids will pick it up when they decide to retire. I sure hope so.

 

[AEAdam]

Practically every Harbor Freight employee I’ve met has been very polite and friendly, if maybe not always incredibly competent, although there was usually another employee around when competence was needed.

The one closest to me is kinda in a rough neighborhood. Looks like they employ locals which is good. The new one they put in a Walmart Strip mall where I used to live is immaculate and has employees who are out going and knowledgable.

Totally random question, not trying to start a flame war, just asking a question:

I was a child in the 60s and 70s and of course remember the Sears store tool and hardware sections. One of my older cousins worked there, so we got the employee discount.

My dad and one of my uncles turned wrenches for a living...NOT dealership mechanics, just for neighborhood garages, i.e. "Larry's Garage" is where he worked until he got a short-lived dealership gig (bankruptcy). From what I have left of their tools, it seems to be Craftsman, with a smattering of SK and Blackhawk.

I remember there were grocery stores selling Globemaster tools, but even as a child they seemed to me to be worthless ****.

Supposedly, during that time Craftsman was a DIY homeowner thing. What was the competition? I remember the Western Auto stuff, but who else was competing for that market at that time?


Thanks!

That was kinda my point. I think technically there was competition, but I never knew about it. My friend had SK tools. His Dad probably bought them in some trade store for HVAC techs etc. Those kinds of places were open 8-4 M-F. In my experience, there wasn't serious competition for Craftsman among non-professionals.

I guess several of you have said it, or elluded to it, the internet has changed the way we shop. At this point, the only retail establishments I frequent are groceries and home centers. I buy everything else I need online. So while Icon or Pittsburgh may fill the specific niches for cheap decent tools, the tool market is different now.

PS you were right about grocery store tools. I bought a metric socket set from a grocery and they were as bad as you thought.

 

[dchawk81]

I am not a member. But it was not a members only coupon. It was directly emailed to me by HF. I used it the next day with a different cashier no problem.

she didn’t say it didn’t apply she said our system isn’t working with those coupons unless your ITC and you can sign up right now with me and the coupon will work and she was acting in a way that made me think she was trying for a commission.

But she didn’t try the coupon. It would have worked. I feel dumb for not asking her to try it but next day I went back and they scanned it no problem. She was scamming me

Imagine thinking someone is scamming them for the commission on a $30 membership signup, and not just misinformed about a coupon.

Do they even get commission on those? I don't know.

 

[Aaron_W]

I think that's a pretty great question actually. The home stores weren't as built-out as they are today, and the first things to pop in my head were "Ace Hardware" and "Northern Tool" for chains. I don't know how far either goes back, but recall them once I became a homeowner in the 1990's. Before they existed, I'd guess it was the local hardware store.

Growing up in the 70's/80's in Wilmington, NC, the owner of a small hardware store lived up the street from us. It was a cool chaos that I always loved wandering around in when I went with my dad as he was doing a full renovation of an 1850's home. 8 months ago we bought a sorta-needy home from the 80's, and I've discovered a family-run store with the same awesome chaos not too far away, and I've made it my go-to for just about everything home-related if they carry it.

But stores like that are nearly extinct - all of the brothers that own that store are well into their 60's, and I can't tell if any of their kids will pick it up when they decide to retire. I sure hope so.

Most of the "old school" hardware stores near me have been Ace Hardware or True Value stores.

Ace has been around a long time. According to Wikipedia, Ace hardware started in the 1920s with the first stores located in the Chicago area. It looks like they were close to a coast to coast operation by the 1960s.

Ace Hardware

True Value goes back to the late 1940s, and again looks like it was pretty wide spread by the 1960s.

True Value

 

[dchawk81]

Keep in mind back in those days you didn't need a lot of tools to work on the family hauler. And the Sears catalog goes back to 1892.

Sears was so successful because there really wasn't any competition.

 

[rooster59]

Can you buy a single deep 9/16 socket? At Sears you could. Places like HF it’s mostly sets.

 

[mngundog]

Never could bring myself to buy a single socket at 5 times the cost, just to match a cheap set.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I think it's a combination of indirect/direct peer pressure (you see a lot of the sentiment here too - "professional must have professional (truck) hand tools!" added to the lure of the easy account.

That's ****. If anyone tried something like that on me, I'd walk straight over to the manager's office.

I live in the Raleigh, NC area, and I'm guessing the regional managers work here or near here as I've seen them multiple times over several years. Maybe that explains why nearly all the staff of the stores I go to in the area seem to be pretty knowledgeable, on top of their game and polite. I got one grump-*** once, but haven't seen him at the store since (which might just be luck). There are a couple folks at the store closest to me who have been there for years.

I think that's probably fair, but I wouldn't consider the indirect pressure that abnormal or unique. Its like that for cars, clothes, sporting equipment, etc. Keep up with the Joneses certainly applies to some tool purchases.

As far as needing "pro" tools I think some people misconstrue that, not saying that you are doing so in your example. Pros do need "pro" quality tools to do typically piece-work pay plan vehicle repairs. Tools need to fit well, be reliable, ergonomics, etc. Certainly a lot of brands outside the tool truck meet that definition.

The one example I think people ignore from the pro perspective is unit cost per use. I can buy snap on, a super active DIY guy can buy Icon, and I can still spend less per use instance simply because I use the tools so frequently. Makes swallowing the cost for that tiny percentage performance increase or warranty use easier due to frequency of use. Now that's not to say if 3/8 semideeps were more widely available 15 years ago and I knew more about other brands I may not have purchased Snap On semideeps.

 

[FigN⋅m]

Bet Sears didn't have a bunch of these mofuggas

 

[slowtwitch73]

If Target or Wallymart sold Icon it would be vaguely Craftsman like. Grab a few 10mm's and cruise through the lingerie department.

 

[Steve_P]

Totally random question, not trying to start a flame war, just asking a question:

I was a child in the 60s and 70s and of course remember the Sears store tool and hardware sections. One of my older cousins worked there, so we got the employee discount.

My dad and one of my uncles turned wrenches for a living...NOT dealership mechanics, just for neighborhood garages, i.e. "Larry's Garage" is where he worked until he got a short-lived dealership gig (bankruptcy). From what I have left of their tools, it seems to be Craftsman, with a smattering of SK and Blackhawk.

I remember there were grocery stores selling Globemaster tools, but even as a child they seemed to me to be worthless ****.

Supposedly, during that time Craftsman was a DIY homeowner thing. What was the competition? I remember the Western Auto stuff, but who else was competing for that market at that time?


Thanks!

Craftsman and Sears owned the homeowner tool market up until the 1980s. And even later they still did, but they began to lose market share due to imports. You could buy a wrench set, angle grinder, 1-1/4 socket, vise, lawnmower.... on a Sears single visit, all in stock. I can look at what's left of my dad's tools to confirm that Craftsman ruled for homeowners.

What a lot of younger members don't realize is that Craftsman was also very widely used in professional settings like auto repair, at that time - as you said. I worked in small engine shops in the 80s-90s and the shop hand tools were Craftsman and SK. Pullers were the classic bar style Proto. I don't recall anyone ever breaking anything and we worked on rusty snow removal equipment. The Craftsman RP wrenches somehow worked fine before YouTube showed us there are now better options; so everyone now thinks they were junk; but they worked OK.

 

[dchawk81]

I think that's probably fair, but I wouldn't consider the indirect pressure that abnormal or unique. Its like that for cars, clothes, sporting equipment, etc. Keep up with the Joneses certainly applies to some tool purchases.

As far as needing "pro" tools I think some people misconstrue that, not saying that you are doing so in your example. Pros do need "pro" quality tools to do typically piece-work pay plan vehicle repairs. Tools need to fit well, be reliable, ergonomics, etc. Certainly a lot of brands outside the tool truck meet that definition.

The one example I think people ignore from the pro perspective is unit cost per use. I can buy snap on, a super active DIY guy can buy Icon, and I can still spend less per use instance simply because I use the tools so frequently. Makes swallowing the cost for that tiny percentage performance increase or warranty use easier due to frequency of use. Now that's not to say if 3/8 semideeps were more widely available 15 years ago and I knew more about other brands I may not have purchased Snap On semideeps.

Yeah my cost per use on snap on is insanely high and most people couldn't justify it. I bought it because I wanted to start getting nicer stuff. Not because I need it.

I actually have some that I bought for anticipated use and haven't taken the shrink wrap off of yet, but most certainly will as an old semi doesn't really ever stop breaking.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Craftsman and Sears owned the homeowner tool market up until the 1980s. And even later they still did, but they began to lose market share due to imports. You could buy a wrench set, angle grinder, 1-1/4 socket, vise, lawnmower.... on a Sears single visit, all in stock. I can look at what's left of my dad's tools to confirm that Craftsman ruled for homeowners.

What a lot of younger members don't realize is that Craftsman was also very widely used in professional settings like auto repair, at that time - as you said. I worked in small engine shops in the 80s-90s and the shop hand tools were Craftsman and SK. Pullers were the classic bar style Proto. I don't recall anyone ever breaking anything and we worked on rusty snow removal equipment. The Craftsman RP wrenches somehow worked fine before YouTube showed us there are now better options; so everyone now thinks they were junk; but they worked OK.

Some of the craftsman hate comes from the tools being so frequently used by new users. Observe someone using a deep socket on a ratchet for the 1st time, even more so with a longer ratchet. New users will frequently slip off or round a fastener in that situation, as they don't understand how critical it is to keep the socket engaged dead-on and in line with the fastener. They tend to push down on the ratchet handle or push off-center, rotating their drive tool relative to the fastener and slipping off. Some of the "OMG X brand is so much better" is the simple fact that better quality tools will counter that improper force and bad technique better. It doesn't matter how good the tool is if one is pulling it off center, it will eventually slip. But a better tool will tolerate more misalignment prior to slipping.

As your example shows, simply using proper technique will improve a users performance with an identical tool. Sort of like how the new kid snaps off exhaust studs until he learns enough to realize what you can and can't touch without heat. The guy who used craftsman all his life knew what the tool could and could not do. There's stuff my snap on FDX sockets fight against to prevent rounding over, but the grip edge extractor sockets work great for. The poor fastener quality, damaged fasteners, poor technique, or whatever is partially offset by a superior tool.

I used raised panel wrenches a little, probably better than my Pittsburgh V-groove wrenches I used when I first started doing alignments. Those caused a lot of suffering, but alignments inherently involve some suffering. Then I bought a nicer Sunex set 8-32, then I got Wright Grips thanks to GJ. Then my eyes went wide when I realized how much better they were. I used craftsman USA sockets for many years, still have some my parents bought me ~2006? Kind of thick, too much lead-in taper for sure, but they wore very well. Snap on and Koken make a better socket, and they aught to for the price.

Yeah my cost per use on snap on is insanely high and most people couldn't justify it. I bought it because I wanted to start getting nicer stuff. Not because I need it.

I actually have some that I bought for anticipated use and haven't taken the shrink wrap off of yet, but most certainly will as an old semi doesn't really ever stop breaking.

Nice stuff is in fact, nice. Nobody will ever convince me they make all of their purchases based on dollars and sense alone. There's preference involved. I got stuff I'll barely make an ROI on, but I sure do like it! Sometimes the reduction of stress, more comfort, less abuse on your body - all those add up even if the time involved was pretty similar.

 

[n8n]

Craftsman is the new Craftsman.

I don't think there's a better parallel. That doesn't mean SBD Craftsman is the same Craftsman you remember from decades ago, but it's still sold at a retailer that exists in most towns, with generous distribution, with a lifetime warranty with easy exchange, and at the mid to budget price-points. Heck, they even sell some stuff that looks identical, like the lobster claw wrenches, acetate-handled screwdrivers, the "classic" pear head ratchets, etc. There's even the V-series line of Craftsman if you want a premium version.

Tekton is probably the next-closest contender, based on pricepoint, warranty and quality - but you can't walk into a local hardware store and grab it off the shelf.

That also doesn't mean I'm knocking Icon. I'm just saying it doesn't occupy the same market space.

I would argue it's actually easier to exchange Icon tools than Craftsman these days, although the last time I had to do one it was OK. It was a replacement hex bit socket and the replacement was made in Taiwan and appeared to be good quality, so even though they're not MUSA there is hope. (I was going to buy Tekton or Gearwrench if I couldn't get a quality appearing Craftsman replacement)

I'd say these days Icon (HF) Craftsman (Lowe's) and Gearwrench (Advance) are all pretty much playing in the same space these days.

 

[bobg03]

I feel like Lowe's and HD more equate Sears of old. To me Sears Craftsman of the 90s/0Xs was about mid level tools that a homeowner could depend on to last. That seems to be the space Lowes/HD occupy now, albeit in a multi-vendor approach. Kobalt/Husky specifically fit that bill. Shoot, Lowes even carries clothes now.

Lowes and Home Depot sell way more of a variety than hardware, tools and lumber these days. In fact lumber other than grocery items was one of the few things Sears never sold.

That was kinda my point. I think technically there was competition, but I never knew about it. My friend had SK tools. His Dad probably bought them in some trade store for HVAC techs etc. Those kinds of places were open 8-4 M-F. In my experience, there wasn't serious competition for Craftsman among non-professionals.

As a younger man a lot of my SK tools came from local speed shops or local auto parts stores, kinda hard to recall but there were no auto parts chains back then other than NAPA.

 

[M635_Guy]

I think that's probably fair, but I wouldn't consider the indirect pressure that abnormal or unique. Its like that for cars, clothes, sporting equipment, etc. Keep up with the Joneses certainly applies to some tool purchases.

It is...to an extent. I can't think of another example where it can put you in a position to spend a massive percentage of your first-year income to get the basics to do the job and put you in potentially crippling debt long term.

(well, a college degree could be considered to meet that description...)

As far as needing "pro" tools I think some people misconstrue that, not saying that you are doing so in your example. Pros do need "pro" quality tools to do typically piece-work pay plan vehicle repairs. Tools need to fit well, be reliable, ergonomics, etc. Certainly a lot of brands outside the tool truck meet that definition.

I get it, but I feel like some people draw very thick lines between what I'll call prosumer tools (Icon) and professional tools (Snap On) that are pretty arbitrary. I know this community has gone around this topic many times, so I try not to belabor it. But for a wide range of what I'll call "core" tools, a pro could do just as well and put the significant savings to better use. That's triply-true of the box. (IMHO)

The one example I think people ignore from the pro perspective is unit cost per use. I can buy snap on, a super active DIY guy can buy Icon, and I can still spend less per use instance simply because I use the tools so frequently. Makes swallowing the cost for that tiny percentage performance increase or warranty use easier due to frequency of use. Now that's not to say if 3/8 semideeps were more widely available 15 years ago and I knew more about other brands I may not have purchased Snap On semideeps.

That's the kind of math that scares me (financially). I had a much-longer answer I just deleted, but I guess I'd just say that for those core tools and especially boxes the math doesn't hold up as well as it used to given the quality and availability of what's out there. 25 years ago it was a very different world.