Rickster55
Well-known member
...to use 14 ga. wire with a 20 amp breaker?
Is it ever okay....
- Thread starter Rickster55
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Motofixxer
Well-known member
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There probably are some circumstances where it's allowed, when you get into technicalities. But for normal circuit situations. Certainly not recommended. I won't ever do it, it's not worth the risk. But I know some who would. When your talking power, safety, fire hazard and wiring for garage/shop/workspace don't wanna cheap out. Do it right with the right materials.
sberry
Banned
The short answer is yes since the question is "ever", not only 20 but is some cases 30, but that would be specialized equipment and not part of a general use circuit.
OP
Rickster55
Well-known member
Thanks for the replies. My buddy's Master Bath keeps popping breakers when his wife uses her hair dryer. Doesn't seem like an exceptional high load on the circuit. From working on the rest of the house, most is wired with 14 ga. They were running a portable heater on the same circuit and I told them to turn the heater off when she used the hair dryer. They do have one of those mirrors with a hundred bulbs around the outside of it (okay - maybe 15 or so) but he tells me breaker is still tripping when the heater is off. Hmmmmm!
trainer
Well-known member
It's not uncommon for a hair dryer to draw ~1500 watts. Add 15 bulbs @ say 15 watts =225 watts for a total of ~1775w.
1775/110volts =16 amps.
Time to add another circuit.
1775/110volts =16 amps.
Time to add another circuit.
110,220V are not proper for calculations unless your in a 3rd world country that still uses those voltages & the only place left for 110V are British building sites where they use a 240V to 110V transformer (Each leg is 55V).
120, 240 volts are the correct voltages to use for residential
NEC now requires 20A circuit for bathrooms but the lowballers who wired most tract homes used the bare min. before that & so that meant a 15 ampere circuit that shared other loaads too.
hidollartoys
Well-known member
The circuit breaker is considered a "fail safe" device. They are designed in a manner that after a circuit breaker trips the first time the next time it trips it will generally trip at a lesser current. This "reduction" is VERY slight at first and becomes "greater" at subsequent trips. This reduction is not a specific design criteria but rather a result of the continued over current activation.
Motofixxer
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Might wanna check\rewire that bathroom. Maybe there is more on that circuit than just that bathroom. I have lived in my 50+ yr old single story ranch home about 3 yrs. I recently checked my main bathroom wiring because when I used a heater the bathroom light dimmed considerably, and that is with cfl's in there. So I found out the main bath was on the same circuit as 2 of the 3 bedrooms. So I split off the 2 bedrooms on their own, and made the bathroom separate with a 20a GFI like it should be. I also found out the 3rd bedroom is on the same circuit as the living room it borders with one wall, and the outside front door light and outlet. As well as a feed to a basement room that was sloppily slapped together by the previous owner. I'm saving that one for a rainy day 
So maybe there is more of a load than you think.
So maybe there is more of a load than you think.Piper
Well-known member
as eluded to above, you could simply replace the breaker with A 15 AMP (not 20) as the old one may have tripped so many times that it's pooched. I think I'd try that as the first, 10 minute job, check to this situation. Likely though you'll be adding a new circuit. DON'T use a 20 what ever you do...
OP
Rickster55
Well-known member
After checking everything out, this is what I found. First the wife is using a 1675 watt hair dryer with 3 60 watt bulbs in the vanity light. also, on the same circuit is the dishwasher, light over the sink in the kitchen and the overhead light in the kitchen. The receptacle that she had the hair dryer plugged into was broken. I replaced the receptacle and added a GFCI upline. Told them to give it a shot and see what happens. But the hair dryer and lights in the bathroom pretty much maxes out the 15 amp circuit. Add the dishwasher and they don't stand a chance. I already told them the dishwasher should be on its own circuit.
Piper
Well-known member
not knowing anything about location, placement etc, I think I'd be trying to sever the connection between the bathroom and kitchen. If you could do that and then resupply the kitchen with the new circuit you may just get away with leaving the bathroom as is. This is going to be one of those, which location and wiring is easiest to locate. The DW should be on a dedicated circuit (in Canada where I am it's code IIRC). So adding 2 circuits for the kitchen may be the easiest, safest and most 'code' answer..
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Replace the 15A breaker with another 15A breaker temporarily. Then split the circuits or replace the 14AWG wiring ASAP. The dishwasher should be on it's own 20A #12AWG circuit and so should the bath.
How old is the house?
How old is the house?
OP
Rickster55
Well-known member
Not sure how old the house is but it is an older home with a couple additions. The house is on a slab and has a small crawl space under the kitchen part. I already suggested getting under there and at least getting the dishwasher on its own circuit. Guess we'll see what happens.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
That is about all you can do.
Piper
Well-known member
how 'bout a towel for that hair??
logical
Well-known member
It's not a great wiring set-up by any means but it should handle the hair dryer and a few bulbs as long as the kitchen stuff isn't going. Have you considered that maybe the hair dryer is aging and drawing more than the rated current?
That being said...if it is operating at 1675 watts and much else is on that circuit, it should trip a 15 amp breaker.
That being said...if it is operating at 1675 watts and much else is on that circuit, it should trip a 15 amp breaker.