kams1973
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Is it true Snap-on Incorporated manufactured the original line of Kobalt tools?
is it true?
- Thread starter kams1973
- Start date
ricleh
Well-known member
I believe the original Kobalt tools were manufactured by Williams which is owned by Snapon.
padronanniversary
Well-known member
Williams which as richleh says owned by snap on. Nice for the price if u can find them
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yes and NO. It is true that Williams Tools made the first generation of Lowes sold Kobalt tools in their Columbus, Georgia factory. It is also true that Williams is a part of Snap on empire. However, no Kobalt tool was ever made in the Snap on plant in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The brands may be related but, in this case, it's more than a stretch to imply that Kobalt tools were ever Snap on made. They're more like distant relatives than twins. I cringe every time I see a Williams, Kobalt, or Bahco listing with Snap on in the title.
Vinko
Well-known member
Yes and NO. It is true that Williams Tools made the first generation of Lowes sold Kobalt tools in their Columbus, Georgia factory. It is also true that Williams is a part of Snap on empire. However, no Kobalt tool was ever made in the Snap on plant in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The brands may be related but, in this case, it's more than a stretch to imply that Kobalt tools were ever Snap on made. They're more like distant relatives than twins. I cringe every time I see a Williams, Kobalt, or Bahco listing with Snap on in the title.
How similar do you think the tooling and production processes were between the SO wrenches and the Kobalts of the time? I'm thinking only of the flare wrenches here, but I suppose the question could be extended to all the products. [Or even between Williams and SO]. My SO driver said that the flares from Kobalt were a dead ringer for the SO's, and he was advising guys buy the Kobalt as just as good as the SO's at the time. For a lot less money.
padronanniversary
Well-known member
sockets look pretty similar.
HandyManny
Well-known member
I recall the packaging specified - "Made by JH Williams a division of Snap-On". It was pretty specific, so i'm not sure why it was misinterpreted that it was Snap-On who made them.
JH Williams is or was at the time a North American subsidiary of Bhaco who is or was a subsidiary of Snap-On. Basically Williams was a subsidiary of a subsidiary of Snap-On.
Originally the Kobalt brand was a brand owned by Williams itself. Lowes bought the rights later on. The old Kobalt stuff had more in common with the Williams line.
JH Williams is or was at the time a North American subsidiary of Bhaco who is or was a subsidiary of Snap-On. Basically Williams was a subsidiary of a subsidiary of Snap-On. Originally the Kobalt brand was a brand owned by Williams itself. Lowes bought the rights later on. The old Kobalt stuff had more in common with the Williams line.
tonydanzah
Well-known member
remember that thread from last week where the former snap on engineer emailed the idiot writing about tool origin(he was all over the place with who made what). He said the original kobalt line was made in the same dies by the same people it was just a different quality of steel and heat treating.
shotgunfatcat
Well-known member
I must have missed this thread, do you know the title of it?
lbgradwell
Well-known member
No, he didn't!
HandyManny
Well-known member
I don't recall seeing that here on GJ, but I do recall reading about that a few years ago somewhere. It might actually be true. Think about it. Snap-On has been closing some of it's own manufacturing plants within the last 7 years and having their subsidiaries fill in for making some of their tools i.e. wrenches, sockets, ratchets. etc. JH Williams is one of those subsidiaries who has been making some of Snap-On's tools. So their might be a wee bit of truth to what he was saying. More accurately being that Williams was making the Kobalt sockets on the same dies and tooling that they were used in making the Snap-On sockets for SO.
Vinko
Well-known member
If the thread exists, anyone know where it is
By the way, diff steel and heating treating (and the value of the tool, to me at least) can make the price go up considerably.
lbgradwell
Well-known member
If the thread exists, anyone know where it is
Yeah, it's here.
I remember first reading that post somewhere ~2002.
Part of the reason that it's so disjointed is that the OP isn't really the "author" but rather an "editor"; he was just trying to assemble a collection of posts by various others and that is why some of the info is good and some is just plain wrong. (For instance, the claim that Stanley produced most of the Craftsman line prior to 1994 is simply not true!)
Another reason it's so hard to follow is that the posts were taken from ancient tool forums that were hard to read in the first place!
There were several other similar/follow-up posts on the subject:
More on Who Makes What Tools
Kobalt Tools
But please note that Dan Peronto actually says nothing of the sort. The only claim he makes is that the Kobalt tools were made by the same people! He states clearly that "the manufacturing tooling is different"...
CouchSpring
Well-known member
Last sat. i bought a 3/8 roto-head,sure looks like s.o. or williams.
Very nice ratchet.
Very nice ratchet.
HandyManny
Well-known member
I agree, especially about Craftsman. There are something like 30+ different companies and subcontractors who make various hand tools for the Craftsman brand and that's just their USA made stuff. Everyone seems to be under the impression that Danaher makes all their stuff, not true. Danaher only makes most of their ratchets, sockets, extentions and wrench sets. A limited number of that stuff was until recently still make by S-K too. Craftsman offers a lot more types of hand tools than just ratchets, sockets, etc.
HandyManny
Well-known member
I've heard this story repeated one too many times on the internet by now to actually believe it. So tell us, when exactly did this happen?
tonydanzah
Well-known member
I stand corrected
I'm curious...the more you hear it, the less you believe it?
That's interesting...
Happened in 1997.
Theloniousmonk
Well-known member
On the internet? Half of everything on the internet is folklore and misinformation, like one giant version of "telephone", the other half seems to be nakey pics.
lbgradwell
Well-known member
Well, since Lowes introduced Kobalt in late 1998, I'm now even less inclined to believe it!
HandyManny
Well-known member
I still don't believe it. But the Kobalt brand was around before Lowes started selling it. I believe Kobalt was a sub-brand offered by Williams before Lowes started carrying it in 1998 or so, then at some point after about 2003 or so Lowes bought the rights to the brand from Willliams. But I also doubt that Williams was making any sockets for Snap-On in 1997. Williams only began filling in for Snap-On production after Snap-On began closing some of their plants here after 2000 or so.
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HandyManny
Well-known member
Yeah that's right!. I hear and read a lot of false stuff and lots of missinformation online that just gets repeated and repeated by people who don't know any better. The more and more a lie gets repeated and told the more and more all too many people are willing to accept a false claim as true. Forgive me for being different than the herd and for being able to actually think and apply years of experience to my thought process.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Yes and NO. It is true that Williams Tools made the first generation of Lowes sold Kobalt tools in their Columbus, Georgia factory. It is also true that Williams is a part of Snap on empire. However, no Kobalt tool was ever made in the Snap on plant in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The brands may be related but, in this case, it's more than a stretch to imply that Kobalt tools were ever Snap on made. They're more like distant relatives than twins. I cringe every time I see a Williams, Kobalt, or Bahco listing with Snap on in the title.
Having grown up in Columbus, I recall when SK built that plant. SK later sold the plant to Williams. I used to know a guy who was a plant engineer there and he told me that someone (not him) designed a ratchet for the Kobalt line, that was defective in design, and easily broke under load tests. Williams sent the design overseas and had it produced as a Kobalt ratchet. He said there was a lot of infighting over that one, but someone high up won out and the defective design got produced anyhow. He took early retirement when they closed the plant.
Charles
HandyManny
Well-known member
Interesting!
I don't recall ever seeing a Kobalt Ratchet from those Williams days that wasn't stamped USA on it. What other country overseas produced this ratchet?lbgradwell
Well-known member
I've heard this before, but I've never seen anything to support it...
Does anyone have a Williams catalogue or some other reference that shows Kobalt was a stand-alone brand prior to Lowes selling it?
If true, where did Williams market Kobalt before Lowes?
Forgive me for being different than the herd and for being able to actually think and apply years of experience to my thought process.
So basically you are calling me a liar...you have never met me, wouldn't know me if I walked up to you, but you have no problem calling me a liar? WTF, indeed!
What have I got to gain by going on the internet and telling this story? I contributed to the thread and you call me a liar. Your "years of experience" obviously haven't had much impact on your thought processes, except to have made them negative.
I stay far away from downer jackasses like you!
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HandyManny
Well-known member
Okay, calm down. Don't get all in a huff just because I'm not gullable. You're right about one thing. I don't know you, but that's not important. I didn't nessesarily directly call you a liar either, just saying a lot of false stuff gets repeated enough times that it eventually gets accepted as fact. It's not being a downer or negative to see things for what they are or to call out certain things.
Tell us then, how do you suppose that one Kobalt branded socket made it's way into a set of Snap-On sockets in 1997 when in fact Snap-On didn't make Kobalt?? Nor was it likely that Williams was making sockets for Snap-On at that time?? Give us your theory.
I have no idea...the distributor said that they came out of the same plant...the forging/chrome on the Kobalt did look very similar.
Again, I don't know how it happened, but it did. It was obviously a freak occurance, which is why I choose to share it here.
HandyManny
Well-known member
Maybe Williams was actually making some Snap-On sets at the time for them. Who knows? I would assume they would make one batch then once finished switch to a different batch. Either way it was known that even if they were made on the same equipment, the specs were specified to be different. Overall I really liked the look and feel of the original Williams made Kobalt sockets and wrenches, wish I had bought a lot more back then. These days everyone on ebay wants a premium for them, they didn't cost all that much when new.
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