Is it worth it?

[edcantu9]

I have older vehicles.

03 Mountaineer
03 Escape
97 Civic

All currently running without any problems.

I have heard of synthetic oil. I have googled and gathered some information. But still wanted to get GJ members opiniong on it.

Is it worth the extra expense?

 

[Carsandtools]

My personal opinion is that high quality petroleum oil is great and there is no need to use synthetic oil. I have owned many vehicles. I currently drive a 2004 Yukon with more than 210,000 miles on it. All of my three vehicles have over 100,000 miles and the oil gets changed at intervals recommended by the oil life light and that varies between 5,000 and 8,000 miles.

I tend to keep cars as long as possible and put as many miles on as possible. I replace new cars every 8 to 10 years but I buy most of them used and I use Quaker State 5W-30. My wife drives a newer car that gets replaced every five years or so.

Some people swear by synthetic oil but I have never been convinced of the superiority of synthetic vs petroleum.

 

[HotRodMan]

I have several cars from the 60's and 70's and synthetic is all I use. Here's why. Buy a quart of the regular petroleum motor oil, buy a quart of synthetic motor oil. Put both of them in your freezer for 24 hours. Open the tops of both and turn up side down. The synthetic oil will run out of the bottle freely while the petroleum oil will be more like jello. If you live in a climate that does not get cold you might not tell the difference, but in a cold climate you get much better lubrication when you start up a cold engine.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

In terms of engine wear, it probably won't make much difference to the life of the engine as I'm sure all those cars have probably turned over 100k miles on regular oil.

I tend to use synthetic because I like the longer change intervals, but it's been proven that synthetic does indeed have all sorts of benefits for the engine.

I feel it's a win/win as the longer change intervals balance out the increased cost, plus all the benefits for the engine.

But if you're a "change the oil every 3k miles" kind of guy, it's throwing money down the drain to use synthetic.

 

[getbent4x4]

i don't consider a 2003 older. Make sure you're using a motorcraft oil filter on the ford.

 

[onthefence777]

Ditto on the motorcraft filter on the Ford. Its very important, the aftermarket filters for those modular motors are TERRIBLE. I use motorcraft semi-synthetic oil as well on my 4.6L Ford, for a bit of peace of mind. If the engine has a turbo or you drive it like you stole it, I would recommend Mobil 1 full synthetic. But for casual use, semi will be fine and cheaper

 

[BellyUpFish]

Mobil 1 fully synthetic and Wix filters in all my vehicles..

 

[Diesel Dan]

Where you live and how you use the vehicles plays a big part on what kind of oil gives more advantages.

A quality synthetic oil will always have better lubrication properties than a conventional oil but at the expense of cost.

 

[koditten]

My personal opinion is that high quality petroleum oil is great and there is no need to use synthetic oil. I have owned many vehicles. I currently drive a 2004 Yukon with more than 210,000 miles on it. All of my three vehicles have over 100,000 miles and the oil gets changed at intervals recommended by the oil life light and that varies between 5,000 and 8,000 miles.

I tend to keep cars as long as possible and put as many miles on as possible. I replace new cars every 8 to 10 years but I buy most of them used and I use Quaker State 5W-30. My wife drives a newer car that gets replaced every five years or so.

Some people swear by synthetic oil but I have never been convinced of the superiority of synthetic vs petroleum.

I could have wrote this, right down to the oil manufacturer. Must be a Michigan thing.

KO

 

[Gary S]

My vehicles are MUCH older than yours, and I use synthetic oil in all of them. I expect my vehicles to last 30+ years.

 

[J Persons]

My '06 F150 5.4 requires semi synthetic according to the owners manual. I get it changed at the Ford dealer, and I couldn't do the change any cheaper if I did it myself, considering every 5th oil change is free.

 

[bgarrett]

The information UI have seen suggests that you NEVER use 5W30

 

[nit2wn]

All depends on if you trade them off ever so often or you drive them until they literally can't be fixed or the cost of the repair is so large that it's not worthwhile. I rarely keep a vehicle until it's last leg, but we still run synthetic or the blend in all of our stuff. My only concern is the the seals and gaskets will leak synthetic before they will regular oil. I've always been hard on my vehicles a little more money for the oil is just paying for my future sins. It's usually warm around here so heat is my biggest enemy.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Right or wrong, I believe that the synthetic or semi/blended is better than regular old dino oil. I think it has been made by a recipe(through testing) rather than refining, if you know what I mean.

I doubt you ever find two people that will completely agree on oil types and brands, filters or change intervals.

 

[Carsandtools]

I could have wrote this, right down to the oil manufacturer. Must be a Michigan thing.
KO

It must be a Michigan thing. Hey, if it works...

The information UI have seen suggests that you NEVER use 5W30

Have you ever read the owner's manual or the oil fill cap of most late model cars and light trucks? 5W-30 is recommended by many manufacturers because of the close tolerances of newer engines. But note that this is a multi-viscosity oil. It behaves like a lighter oil in the winter and a heavier oil in the summer. It works very well.

...My only concern is the the seals and gaskets will leak synthetic before they will regular oil...

This is true. The molecular structure of synthetic oil is different from petroleum.

 

[kbs2244]

Why do you want to fix something that isn't broke?

 

[Colin Len]

I'd get the oil analyzed and see what the pros have to say about your use of conventional. If it's working, then no need to spend more. I use synthetic in all of my vehicles and get the oil analyzed after each oil change (www.blackstone-labs.com) - it's nice to know what's going on in your motor and well worth the price IMO. In my Subaru I was using Mobil1 and doing oil changes every ~12k miles with great results. After each oil change they recommended I keep extending the oil change interval for longer mileage. Last year I switched to GET "G Oil" full synthetic bio-based 5w30 and did my first oil change at ~10k miles (wanted to change it sooner since I wasn't sure how this oil would compare to Mobil1). Just got my results back and the findings were very good, gonna try 12k on this next oil change.

 

[kamesama980]

Mobil1 + wix filter for me. ~6k mile intervals...or 1 year. whichever comes first (wife seldom drives and my mileage is divided between the car, truck, and bike)

5W20 on my truck that's 23 years old with almost 250k after reading up on BITOG.
5W30 with the others because they call for it, they're newer, and they aren't freakish frankenstein patchwork like my truck.

 

[Jagmandave]

I run synthetic (Mobil 1 5W30) in both my MINI and my Audi, because both are turbocharged and of course that's what the mfr recommends.

However in older cars that are not turbocharged I don't see the need or the benefit, especially since you've run them this long on regular oil. I think it's more important to run a good quality oil of the weight recommended by the mfr, use a good brand filter (I prefer OEM to aftermarket) and change it regularly.

Good to go.

On your next new car, especially if it has forced induction, then go with a good synthetic.

 

[TwoInch]

you biggest improvement with a synthetic is pumpability at low temperature. almost all your engine wear comes from cold starts, before the oil is thinned out by the heat of the engine.

synthetic is not more slippery, and it doesnt lubricate better than dino oil. it is a little more temp stable, and the add packs are generally a little better. but again, the biggest improvement is the low temp pumpability.

also, 5w-30 does not act like a 5wt at low temps, and a 30wt at operating temps. that a misconception. they are always a 30wt, with a bit better pumpability at low temps. huge difference.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My personal opinion is that high quality petroleum oil is great and there is no need to use synthetic oil.

100% correct. Unless the manufacturer specifies synthetic there really is no need. You might see ½-1 mpg improvement.

As long as the oil has this label on it

Of course use the "weight" recommended for your car (typically 5W-20) and change at the recommended interval.

 

[BMcC]

I had heard that synthetic oil might give you better gas mileage. I switched to some about 3000 miles ago and haven't seen any difference.

The only other advantage I wanted was that it is supposed to last up to 15,000 miles between oil changes. So we have a ways yet before I can tell you for sure.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The only other advantage I wanted was that it is supposed to last up to 15,000 miles between oil changes.

And that will likely void your warranty

 

[Glenn M.]

I have older vehicles.

03 Mountaineer
03 Escape
97 Civic

Those are older vehicles? My newest ride is an '87 with about 300K miles on it... I'm using garden variety Shell Rotella T 15w-40, burns maybe 2 quarts in 8000 miles, more than acceptable in my book... I used synthetic oil in it about 150K miles ago, didn't see any appreciable difference, went back to regular diesel spec oil.

 

[2mJps]

If some one ever can give proof that one oil is better than another I will use that oil. I would not use a synthetic because it caused some headaches for me trying to stop it from leaking from engines.

 

[BMcC]

And that will likely void your warranty

I would hope not, but I'll be checking at its regular intervals just to be sure the oil is holding up.

 

[volaredon]

'03 is an "older" car huh... I had an '01 for a while (newest model year vehicle I have ever owned) your "old" 03 is newer than anything I have ever had (or want!)
My newest vehicles are both '97 model Jeeps with 4.0's
the rest of my "fleet" is a 93 V8 Dakota and a 78 Plymouth Sport Fury with a 318... I have extended my change intervals to every 4K "whether it needs it or not" and have always used dino 10-W-40 year round in every engine I own, usually Valvoline... engines are clean enough to eat off of under the valve covers... why spend the extra money on synthetic?

 

[38Chevy454]

Synthetic oil can be better for sludge build-up. Some cars have this problem more than others, such as some Toyota engines or the Chrysler 2.7 V6. It does not vaporize as easily, and it also has better detergent cleaning. So yes it is better oil. But it costs more and if you change oil regularly it probably will not make as much difference, unless your engine is one that has problems with sludging up.

I used to think the higher the viscosity the better it would lubricate, such as 20w-50 must be better than 10w-30. That is wrong. Assuming you have proper bearing clearances, a lighter weight is better as it allows for the oil to be pushed out with new, so you maintain a better fluid cushion. Only in extreme pressure is a higher weight needed, like gears or a very high performance engine. Higher oil pressure just means more resistance to flow.

 

[Carsandtools]

...
also, 5w-30 does not act like a 5wt at low temps, and a 30wt at operating temps. that a misconception. they are always a 30wt, with a bit better pumpability at low temps. huge difference.

Actually, you have the misconception. Oil additives are used to control the temperature dependence of the viscosity. So, the 5W-30 actually does have the viscosity of 5W oil at cold temperatures and the viscosity of 30W oil at higher temperatures. Some smart chemists figured this out. That is the principle of multi-viscosity oil and that's what the major motor oil producers have been doing for the last several decades.

 

[Colin Len]

The only other advantage I wanted was that it is supposed to last up to 15,000 miles between oil changes. So we have a ways yet before I can tell you for sure.

There is, it's called oil analysis and I posted about it on the previous page. I get all of my oil samples analyzed. I don't have a comparison between conventional and synthetic because since I got my car I've been using synthetic. But you could easily take a sample of your current oil, have it analyzed, then do the same with synthetic and see what the results are. You should be able to see if there was any difference in wear or breakdown of the oil.

My understanding is that conventional oil is good for around 3k-8k miles depending on the application and that synthetic will work for longer. Although, admittedly my knowledge of how long conventional lasts is not based on my analyses, only on what I've seen people generally use as intervals. I can say though that synthetic can EASILY last 10k miles. I started doing my oil changes at 10k and then when the results were good I would move to a longer interval. I was going to continue to stretch it out but upon switching the oil I use I came back down to 10k as a precaution. In general I think if you're using synthetic and changing more often than 10k then you're wasting your money. Of course there may be some special cases like turbo vehicles, extreme conditions, and/or specific engines which are harder on the oil.

 

[TwoInch]

Actually, you have the misconception. Oil additives are used to control the temperature dependence of the viscosity. So, the 5W-30 actually does have the viscosity of 5W oil at cold temperatures and the viscosity of 30W oil at higher temperatures. Some smart chemists figured this out. That is the principle of multi-viscosity oil and that's what the major motor oil producers have been doing for the last several decades.

wrong. it a common misunderstanding, and i really dont want to get back into another ******* match about oil.

the first number in a multi grade oil is not a "weight" number. the 5w in 5w-30 does not reference 5 weight oil. the w stands for winter, and for an oil to get a w grading from the API, it must meet a low temp pumpability requirement, not a viscosity(weight) requirement.

here are some viscosity numbers to ponder over, you can see how the hot and cold numbers relate to the "grade" numbers. again, the first number has nothing to do with the weight of the oil.

0w-20
@ 104*(cold) 44.8 cst
@ 212* (hot) 8.7 cst

5w-20
@ 104*(cold) = 46 cst
@ 212*(hot) = 8.4 cst

straight 20wt
@ 104*(cold) = 54 cst
@ 212*(hot) = 8 cst

0w-30
@ 104*(cold) = 72 cst
@ 212*(hot) = 12.2 cst

20w-50
@104*(cold) = 166 cst
@212*(hot) = 18.5 cst

straight 50wt
@104*(cold) =222 cst
@212*(hot) = 20.3 cst

as you can see, a 20w-50 viscosity is triple that of a 20 weight oil at the same cold temperature. motor oil weight and the w number are totally different API specs.

another question, what are the specs of a 0 weight oil that the 0w-30 oil would be at low temps?? where do i find this 0 weight oil? makes sense neither the 0 or the w are oil weight related, and are a totally different API spec. i wish API had not used numbers, and used A, B, C, D, etc... as there would be less confusion and people naturally thinking that the number is a referencing a "Weight"

still dont believe? heres the API J300 specs for that pesky w rating. top is regular API SAE and ISO viscosity ratings, and bottom are the cold temp pumpability w ratings.

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/backup_200211_viscosity-tab1-2.gif

to add more confusion... 10w-40 motor oil is the same viscosity as 80w-90 gear oil, but most people will swear gear oil is much thicker than the motor oil.... oil is full of misconceptions.

 

[bazzateer]

I have older vehicles.

03 Mountaineer
03 Escape
97 Civic

Nope, they're all new compared to my fleet!