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Is Matco Stupid?

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DavidtheDuke

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Fedwrench

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DavidtheDuke said:
http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2388&page=5

vs

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=2798&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Costs more with lesser stats. My Matco dealer even gave me a "Matco Torque Magazine" with a bleached blonde Matco "spokesperson" on the cover holding the impact wrench. Are they really that imcompetent or hoping that they can scrape by with enough incompetent techs?
Click to expand...

The bleached blonde was Courtney Hanson from overhaulin and powerblock TV. Although hot and car smart, her picture won't intice me to buy a Matco Impact.

Matco probably isn't stupid but, they're definitely not aware of their surroundings.

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/IR-2135TIMAX.html

This is probably the Matco gun before it's rebadged and alot cheaper. (if we're talking about the new MT1769A from Matco)
I know tool trucks can be a mechanics best friend but, in these days of declining hours and wages, it pays to shop around.:thumbup:
 
OP
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DavidtheDuke

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Moose-LandTran said:
Which Matco gun are we looking at?
Click to expand...

MT1769A. It resetted to page 1, weird.

The Matco dealer also said IR attempted to kick it up to 1200 ft lbs like the MG725, but the anvil kept breaking. I turned around and pointed to my MG725 that IS 1200, and he just shrugged. Kinda feel sorry for him :lol_hitti
 
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Moose-LandTran

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I like me 2135s. for air tools (with the exception of an air hammer) i'll only buy IR. i think they're the best. and they got plenty of power.

no point paying the mark up for a different colour scheme and a different brand logo. i prefer my IRs over the Snap-on guns too. even though my dealer keeps trying to sell me the new 3/8" impact.
 
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l_bilyk

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DavidtheDuke said:
MT1769A. It resetted to page 1, weird.

The Matco dealer also said IR attempted to kick it up to 1200 ft lbs like the MG725, but the anvil kept breaking. I turned around and pointed to my MG725 that IS 1200, and he just shrugged. Kinda feel sorry for him :lol_hitti
Click to expand...

I doubt there is any real world difference between 1200 ft lbs and 1100 ft lbs of "nut busting torque", whatever that means anyways. And the IR gun is nothing to laugh at. You could probably argue that overall IR air tools are better than snap-on. Most of the blue-point stuff is IR anyways.
 
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chad s

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Matco isn't stupid, the guys that buy the re-badged IR tools with the huge markup are!

Matco doesnt need to invest in any R&D or manufacturing, they just sign a contract, and laugh all the way to the bank. clever idea if it works, far from stupid.

Would I do it if I were a tool maker, no, I think its a bit dishonest, but if you have a marketing setup clever enough to sell these and get away with it, you certainly are not stupid.
 
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Ducroix

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Well it depends how you look at it yes they snap on has 90 more pounds of break away torque but for those who will use it all day, the matco is 1.2 pounds lighter and overall they are pretty close granted they probably could come down a little but in price but I would buy the matco over the snappy
 
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bowtie3

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YES... I think Matco is the biggest rip in the tool world and in the mobile tool world for sure. They take stuff you can buy at any parts house or sears, mark it up....no wayyyyy up and hope people are not smart enough to figure them out. They are higher than SO on alot of stuff. I like their boxes but in my opinion the rest of their line is a joke just rebaged everything at 3 times the price.
 
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ToolmanTom

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bowtie3 said:
YES... I think Matco is the biggest rip in the tool world and in the mobile tool world for sure. They take stuff you can buy at any parts house or sears, mark it up....no wayyyyy up and hope people are not smart enough to figure them out. They are higher than SO on alot of stuff. I like their boxes but in my opinion the rest of their line is a joke just rebaged everything at 3 times the price.
Click to expand...

I tried to tell allot of the die hard fatco fans this (the Matco guy was FAT, 350+lbs), they all seem to think its cheaper. I tell them it is but it is also more expensive. I wont even start with the conhole truck.
 
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Stick

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I know a lot of the guys I've worked with in shops like the matco rebranded IR guns because they have a 2 year warranty instead of the standard one year. Having seen a couple of the guns come apart at the nosecone, the extra expense seems like it might be worth it for a few people.
 
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Marlin

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l_bilyk said:
I doubt there is any real world difference between 1200 ft lbs and 1100 ft lbs of "nut busting torque", whatever that means anyways. And the IR gun is nothing to laugh at. You could probably argue that overall IR air tools are better than snap-on. Most of the blue-point stuff is IR anyways.
Click to expand...
You're right about the Nut Busting Torque. The problem with it is that there is no set test standard. One manufacturer can establish this value by measuring the maximum torqued bolt that their tool will loosen in a set timeframe that they feel is reasonable, say 5 seconds of impacting. If the next manufacturer wants to then advertise a better number they can just decide to establish their number using a longer impacting time, like 7 or 10 seconds, etc.
 
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grzmonkey

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Lot's of commentary on Matco and IR ... does anyone realize that the majority of IR now comes from their plant in China? Snap-on Blue Point is not IR. And the "Nut Busting Torque" is marketing hype ... or should I say extreme overhype ... they attempted to explain in a recent product piece ... to achieve 1200 ft lbs of "nut busting torque" you simply take a nut on a torque testing machine known as a Skidmore and tighten to 1200 ft lbs ... remove with the IR2135Ti and magically you have a gun marketed at 1200 ft lbs ... BUT please realize that it only takes 2/3 of the torque to remove a nut so in fact ....true, hard fact... the IR gun only has ~700 ft lbs. It pays to ask questions no matter where you buy your product ... Torque is the most over rated feature sold today ... the real ability is to manage weight, balance and size along with reasonable torque. Do your wrist a favor ...try the CP7740 at 2.7 lbs and 500 ft lbs of "real, honest torque" you have all you need in the smallest congiguration on the market. Or go to Tooltopia.com and review the new German engineered product, Rodcraft ... they are offering a 60 day no quesrtions asked return.
 
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AutoTech

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grzmonkey said:
Lot's of commentary on Matco and IR ... does anyone realize that the majority of IR now comes from their plant in China? Snap-on Blue Point is not IR. And the "Nut Busting Torque" is marketing hype ... or should I say extreme overhype ... they attempted to explain in a recent product piece ... to achieve 1200 ft lbs of "nut busting torque" you simply take a nut on a torque testing machine known as a Skidmore and tighten to 1200 ft lbs ... remove with the IR2135Ti and magically you have a gun marketed at 1200 ft lbs ... BUT please realize that it only takes 2/3 of the torque to remove a nut so in fact ....true, hard fact... the IR gun only has ~700 ft lbs. It pays to ask questions no matter where you buy your product ... Torque is the most over rated feature sold today ... the real ability is to manage weight, balance and size along with reasonable torque. Do your wrist a favor ...try the CP7740 at 2.7 lbs and 500 ft lbs of "real, honest torque" you have all you need in the smallest congiguration on the market. Or go to Tooltopia.com and review the new German engineered product, Rodcraft ... they are offering a 60 day no quesrtions asked return.
Click to expand...

grzmonkey makes a pretty good point about the nut busting torque! In the shop one tech has a 3/4 CP impact wrench rated at a 1000 foot pounds. Now in comes Honda timing belt job and you all know what those crank pulley bolts can be like! My S-K pro gun rated at 1000 pounds of nut busting torque and gun just boggs down, next Matco impact same torque as mine and boggs down, now the 3/4 gun impact about 5 times and bolts comes out like nothing so the nut busting torque is over rated, just a sales tactic and it seems to work cause we all want more power :thumbup:
 
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Marlin

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grzmonkey said:
Lot's of commentary on Matco and IR ... does anyone realize that the majority of IR now comes from their plant in China? Snap-on Blue Point is not IR. And the "Nut Busting Torque" is marketing hype ... or should I say extreme overhype ... they attempted to explain in a recent product piece ... to achieve 1200 ft lbs of "nut busting torque" you simply take a nut on a torque testing machine known as a Skidmore and tighten to 1200 ft lbs ... remove with the IR2135Ti and magically you have a gun marketed at 1200 ft lbs ... BUT please realize that it only takes 2/3 of the torque to remove a nut so in fact ....true, hard fact... the IR gun only has ~700 ft lbs. It pays to ask questions no matter where you buy your product ... Torque is the most over rated feature sold today ... the real ability is to manage weight, balance and size along with reasonable torque. Do your wrist a favor ...try the CP7740 at 2.7 lbs and 500 ft lbs of "real, honest torque" you have all you need in the smallest congiguration on the market. Or go to Tooltopia.com and review the new German engineered product, Rodcraft ... they are offering a 60 day no quesrtions asked return.
Click to expand...

grzmonkey, 11 posts and a good portion of them are hyping CP or bashing IR, why don't you be upfront with everyone and let them know that you work for CP? Also, if you insist on bashing, at least be honest about it; to say that most of IR tools are produced in China is a lie. The tools most discussed in this post and on this forum are assembled in Athens, PA. The max torque specified for the 2135TiMax is 780 ft-lbs and is clearly stated in all literature, Nut Busting Torque is not communicated as the Max torque. I'm sure the 7740 Mini 1/2" has some applications that it is great for, if you came out with it 20 years ago when most tools were only producing 500 ft-lbs it would have been quite an accomplishment, but the bar has been risen quite a bit. As for the Rodcraft tools, they look a lot like the Aircat models, are they made in the same plant in Taiwan?
 
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grzmonkey

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Marlin,

Did work for CP and worked for IR as well ... do some consulting and importing now...just happen to be a bigger CP fan as many of my former IR colleagues are now at CP . Don't get me wrong...IR is a great brand but no one is #1 forever ... ask CP after ruling the world in the 70's and 80's what happened in the 90's. They have refreshed their product portfolio, offer some superior products and invested heavily in the automotive market. WD's are shifting their buying dollars to CP. As for Athens (not too many know of Athens so maybe I'm talking to an IR "toolie") vs China...the only critical product of any consequence from Athens is the 2135 series ... 231, 244, 261, 212, 285 etc are all China and they have moved almost all product from Japan (ratchets, drill, grinders). Since then Atlas-Copco (CP parent) has purchased their supplier in Japan. As for torque, IR has an incredible "marketing pencil". Take some IR to a local service center and have them test it on a model J Skidmore ... you will see what I am talking about. Try some CP ...you might be pleasantly surprised
 
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grzmonkey

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Tuner ... try one. With a 60 day no questions asked return how can you go wrong. If it's a 1/2' you're looking for try the 2263XI composite
 
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TNToy

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DavidtheDuke said:
http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2388&page=5

vs

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=2798&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Click to expand...

Your links compare a 3/8" gun to a 1/2" one... at least that's the first thing I see on that Matco page.

I've used both, and I very much prefer the IR2135 to the Snappy impact you linked. Heavier, larger, and not really any stronger.

Snap-On airtools have always been best at being heavy, being relatively frugal with air, and lasting forever.

If you're a professional tech who likes the 2135, the Matco is a good buy for the extra year of warranty, and the ability to throw it at a truck driver and forget about it, instead of shipping your IR off for service. A lot of techs will pay a premium for on-the-job service, instead of spending their lunch break waiting in line at the post office to mail their impact off to IR's nearest rebuild center. That, and the ability to split the purchase into a series of payments.

Techs aren't stupid, the lazy ones are simply willing to trade convenience for additional cost. Everyone knows pretty much everything is available somewhere cheaper than the tool truck. ;)
 
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Marlin

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grzmonkey said:
Marlin,

Did work for CP and worked for IR as well ... do some consulting and importing now...just happen to be a bigger CP fan as many of my former IR colleagues are now at CP . Don't get me wrong...IR is a great brand but no one is #1 forever ... ask CP after ruling the world in the 70's and 80's what happened in the 90's. They have refreshed their product portfolio, offer some superior products and invested heavily in the automotive market. WD's are shifting their buying dollars to CP. As for Athens (not too many know of Athens so maybe I'm talking to an IR "toolie") vs China...the only critical product of any consequence from Athens is the 2135 series ... 231, 244, 261, 212, 285 etc are all China and they have moved almost all product from Japan (ratchets, drill, grinders). Since then Atlas-Copco (CP parent) has purchased their supplier in Japan. As for torque, IR has an incredible "marketing pencil". Take some IR to a local service center and have them test it on a model J Skidmore ... you will see what I am talking about. Try some CP ...you might be pleasantly surprised
Click to expand...
Your info on what products are produced in China is not correct, at least three of those tools are still produced in Athens, PA and the products that are made in China are made to the same quality standards but I'm not here to promote IR, just trying to correct any misinformation that is being spread. As for the ratings, I've seen the testing and can tell you that IR is the most conservative out there. CP is trying but seem to consistenly miss the boat, first there was the turbo tool that could produce the torque if you could feed it enough air, but it was too bulky and too heavy, now there's the mini 1/2" that is smaller and lighter but won't keep up with the big boys on torque. Try tackling a Honda crank bolt with one, good luck. And yes, I'm a toolie, I'm sure we probably know each other.
 
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grzmonkey

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OK...won't get into a war of words on source of IR but Athens is on the short list. As for quality that's for the user to decide. First genersation of 7750 turbo was not efficient but their 2.0 version is a killer on max torque ... no need for a 3/4" impact on Honda crank bolt if you own this one. As for the 7740 I think CP is on to something but let's see what the technician looks for as he gets better educated on what he truly needs. All of the manufacturers have created the torque "drug" but it doesn't mean it should be teh number one feature for the tech. Look to Europe on noise, vibration, weight, size, etc ... as those trends move to North America CP will be well positioned in the 1/2' category.
 
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rhandwor

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My 3/4 inch drive torque wrench only goes to 600 ft lbs. At 1100 foot pounds the 1/2 inch driver would ring off. I doubt it will pull a truck wheel put on with a 1 inch drive impact.
 
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Diesel-Mech

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rhandwor said:
My 3/4 inch drive torque wrench only goes to 600 ft lbs. At 1100 foot pounds the 1/2 inch driver would ring off. I doubt it will pull a truck wheel put on with a 1 inch drive impact.
Click to expand...
My MG725 pulls truck lug nuts and Buds that were installed with a 1" impact with out any trouble at all. Interpret that how ever you want but it is a bad *** impact.
 
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gofastman

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TNToy said:
Your links compare a 3/8" gun to a 1/2" one... at least that's the first thing I see on that Matco page.

I've used both, and I very much prefer the IR2135 to the Snappy impact you linked. Heavier, larger, and not really any stronger.

Snap-On airtools have always been best at being heavy, being relatively frugal with air, and lasting forever

If you're a professional tech who likes the 2135, the Matco is a good buy for the extra year of warranty, and the ability to throw it at a truck driver and forget about it, instead of shipping your IR off for service. A lot of techs will pay a premium for on-the-job service, instead of spending their lunch break waiting in line at the post office to mail their impact off to IR's nearest rebuild center. That, and the ability to split the purchase into a series of payments.

Techs aren't stupid, the lazy ones are simply willing to trade convenience for additional cost. Everyone knows pretty much everything is available somewhere cheaper than the tool truck. ;)
Click to expand...

All of the snapon guns i have used seem to loose there torque output relativly quickly, even with proper maintanance, anyone else observed this?
 
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Merkava_4

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Sometimes unusually low prices will scare customers away; the Winco grocery store I shop at will have a flock of people standing around the "Premium" wheat bread any day of the week hesitating as to whether to buy it because it costs only $1.58 per loaf. :D
 
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autoace

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The Matco impact gun you have a link for, is a IR thunder gun derivative in disguise. Cornwell sells the same one for 199.99, IR stuff is nothing to sneeze at, even though they have gone 1/2 imported. I have never used that particular SO gun, but you can buy the IR, matco advertises for 200bucks or less through different vendors, so it is a good deal if you don't buy it from Matco.
 
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