Is Mini Split right option?

[davetulk]

Hi All,

I am building a new shop.

• 32' X 32'
• 12' walls
• Vaulted Insulated ceiling
• Concreate Block walls with stucco on the outside
• Two 12'x10' doors
• One man door
• No windows
• Location Orlando FL.

Need advice on how many BTU I need and if a mini Split would be the best option.

Thanks in advance
Dave

 

[theoldwizard1]

You left out the most important information: Hoe much insulation in the walls a ceiling ?

Is it a true "ceiling" with air space between the top of the insulation and the bottom of the roof deck ?

Mini-split work well for medium to large OPEN rooms. One outdoor compressor unit, but 2 indoor "air handlers" at opposite corners if possible. Even with this, you might need some additional fans.

 

[davetulk]

Ceiling will be insulated r30. Walls no insulation concrete block.

 

[finn]

I've got a Mitsubishi in the house. My garage stays cool enough than I don't need one in this climate.

The one observation I will share is that, like a hanging unit heater, the mini split has no, or at best, limited air filtration capability, so dust levels will be a possible issue in a shop environment, compared to a conventional air handlers.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

I would go traditional split. Above the ceiling. Better filtration options, less expensive, better parts availability, IMHO.

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

I would go traditional split. Above the ceiling. Better filtration options, less expensive, better parts availability, IMHO.

The thing I find most appealing about the mini-split is its ability to vary the speed of the compressor and indoor fan to keep the space comfortable. Traditional splits are either on-full-blast, or off, unless you spend way more cash. Are there any traditional splits using inverter technology yet? The only thing I've seen that comes close to that type of operation has a 2-speed compressor and an uber-expensive variable speed indoor blower motor. Are there any updated (and yet reasonably priced) variable capacity designs?

 

[AJ1978]

I have a 40x40 12 foot ceiling shop with 2 10x 9'6 doors R13 on the walls R30 in the ceiling!
I put a mini split in 3 summers ago, because I was tired of sweating, working on cars, and the humidity.

High initial up front cost, but low ownership cost, 1 head wall unit, outside unit is quiet, Auto Fan Feature is GREAT

My opinion is GO MINI SPLIT, takes up less foot print, NO NOISE, reliable and easy to maintain, I clean my filters weekly because of the work we do.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

2t mini split.

 

[justinjoyal]

I would go traditional split. Above the ceiling. Better filtration options, less expensive, better parts availability, IMHO.

Better filtration, yes.

For the rest, no.

OP, i'd go with a mini-split if I were you. Just make sure it's properly sized.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Justin, please explain your thoughts. How is parts availability not better? I deal with parts for a living (out of the field for a few years), and the availability of parts on mini- splits even a few years old is terrible. They change design and abandon units regularly. If you stay away from the "super-seer) units, many parts on traditional units are somewhat or completely generic. Circuit boards (if equipped) are the exception, but even that is changing with multi-fit boards. With a lot of mini-splits you are relegated to websites which can be unresponsive and give little to no info on availability of stock.

Expense, sorry, winner again. Now, admittedly, if you fully duct, yes, cost is higher, but air distribution is better too, so lets keep it apples to apples.

I really don't get the love affair with mini-splits around here, but you can't fight city hall so to speak. I am NOT a fan, but that is just from 16+ years in the field and 5 or so as a parts man.

 

[justinjoyal]

Justin, please explain your thoughts. How is parts availability not better? I deal with parts for a living (out of the field for a few years), and the availability of parts on mini- splits even a few years old is terrible. They change design and abandon units regularly. If you stay away from the "super-seer) units, many parts on traditional units are somewhat or completely generic. Circuit boards (if equipped) are the exception, but even that is changing with multi-fit boards. With a lot of mini-splits you are relegated to websites which can be unresponsive and give little to no info on availability of stock.

Expense, sorry, winner again. Now, admittedly, if you fully duct, yes, cost is higher, but air distribution is better too, so lets keep it apples to apples.

I really don't get the love affair with mini-splits around here, but you can't fight city hall so to speak. I am NOT a fan, but that is just from 16+ years in the field and 5 or so as a parts man.

If you stick with the major brands, parts availability is no problem at all. Of course if you go for the Mr. Cool/Pioneer kinda **** you'll probably have trouble finding what you need.

A regular split system costs more than a mini-split. I know because I sell and install them. At least that's how it is around here...

Obviously, air distribution is better there is no arguing that, but we're talking strictly $$$ here.

I am not saying a split system is not good, definitely not, but it is more expensive, in my experience. That's all I'm saying.

If OP can get a good quality split for the price of a good quality mini-split, he'd indeed be better off with it!

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

Please show us where we can find a split for the cost of a mini-split. When I look for a split, I see prices that are far higher AND require a licensed installer to do the install and validate the warranty.

For example, I'm looking at this 1.5-ton Mr. Cool DIY mini-split that looks to be almost as easy to install as falling off a chair: http://ingramswaterandair.com/mrcool-seer-ductless-minisplit-heat-pump-wifi-p-22614.html for $1,154, all in.

But when I look at the split, now I'm looking at this 1.5 ton Goodman: http://ingramswaterandair.com/goodman-seer-r410a-complete-split-system-heat-pump-p-23380.html for $1,799, plus install, plus ductwork, registers, filter grill, etc.

However, I totally see your point about parts. My last place had two ancient Janitrol a/c systems, with propane furnaces. I was able to find new replacement control boards for both for around $70 each when the boards started flaking out.

Edit: Looks like I was busy typing and grabbing links while justinjoyal was posting!

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

You Can (and many do in this application) install a standard split without duct work. You lose some of the benefit, but to keep it apples to apples, well, lose that. Now, Goodman can be bought and will carry the warranty even if a homeowner is doing the work.

The Goodman system you spec'd has a variable speed blower. You are also at 15 SEER.

This one is $1175

http://ingramswaterandair.com/goodmancoaire-seer-complete-split-system-heat-pump-p-25635.html

Yes, I know that is a lower SEER than your mini-split. The other WONDERFUL thing is, You can go straight A/C and gas with a conventional split- not on a mini-split! and you can hang that thing int he attic....which is an available option on some mini-splits, but the cost is a lot more.

I guess its all personal preference. No, i'm not "stone age" but I have worked on mini-splits and VRF, they ****. Very tight, junk cabinets, and don't get me started on the junk little condensate pumps most of them use.

Minis have a place, but a working shop, in my opinion, isn't the best application.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Obviously, air distribution is better there is no arguing that, but we're talking strictly $$$ here.

The OP asked for the best option. Not the cheapest. And I can get a conventional system cheaper. I'm the buyer...lol.

 

[justinjoyal]

Obviously, air distribution is better there is no arguing that, but we're talking strictly $$$ here.



The OP asked for the best option. Not the cheapest. And I can get a conventional system cheaper. I'm the buyer...lol.

I was referring to your statement "less expensive" talking about a regular split. But you're right OP asked for the best option.

However like a lot of people he will probably go for the best bang for the buck and in his case I believe it is the mini-split.

About the prices, maybe things are different in the US/in your area but around here, excluding ducting, sticking to the major brands and using mid level/efficiency products, you don't get a heat pump split system under 5k (installed).

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Less upfront cost- I guess its arguable, but to get the most out of a conventional, yes, you add in the duct, and the cost goes up. I am just postulating here, but I would assume that most folks would rather have the option to heat with gas (natural or LP) since in many rural areas, it is much cheaper than rural electric rates. A straight electric/ electric heat pump (while done every single day) in this area (Central Indiana) is not a great choice to begin with.

In many of the other areas of this forum, it is realized that "cheapest initial cost" is not the cheapest overall or the best value. In other areas, not so much (like the infamous T8 lights).

I stand by my statements. Best overall- conventional split. Best value over the long haul- Conventional split.

However, seeing the OP is in Florida, I would forgo the heat and/or heat pump likely and go straight A/c and cut costs further. It also makes a mini-split a bit more "service friendly".

For larger spaces, I also like a packaged convertible unit. Very quick install, and good serviceability. I know I am in the minority on this.

And to the OP, for your BTU, a couple thoughts, if you do not condition the space 24/7, make sure you oversize it for the routine pull-downs, if you are conditioning it 100% of the time, do not.

I would guesstimate 2 tons for correct 100% conditioned space.

 

[theoldwizard1]

but I would assume that most folks would rather have the option to heat with gas (natural or LP) since in many rural areas, it is much cheaper than rural electric rates. A straight electric/ electric heat pump (while done every single day) in this area (Central Indiana) is not a great choice to begin with.

Heating with natural gas is hard to beat, both on initial installation and cost of operation, especially if you live in a cool/cold climate.

If you live "north of the Mason-Dixon" it would take many years to pay off the cost of a mini-split versus a traditional HVAC system with ducts.

Further south where the number of "heating days" is significantly less, a mini-split heat pump makes a lot more sense.

Personally, I think some of the min-split heat pumps are overpriced or should I say you are paying a lot for the label. The US, in general, is NOT a good place for residential heat pump because our home have too many rooms. Garages are just the opposite. Typically 1 big room which is perfect for a mini-split.

 

[RacerX10]

I have a 40x40 12 foot ceiling shop with 2 10x 9'6 doors R13 on the walls R30 in the ceiling!
I put a mini split in 3 summers ago, because I was tired of sweating, working on cars, and the humidity.

High initial up front cost, but low ownership cost, 1 head wall unit, outside unit is quiet, Auto Fan Feature is GREAT

My opinion is GO MINI SPLIT, takes up less foot print, NO NOISE, reliable and easy to maintain, I clean my filters weekly because of the work we do.

How large is your mini split ? My shop is roughly the same size (higher ceilings, only one large bay door)