Is my MWBC on the same Leg?

[marklbucla]

Please see the attached image of my main breaker panel. There is a subpanel to the house, and another one to the garage.

It appears that I have a MWBC (two hots and 1 neutral wire between them), but there's only two outlets on it. The hot wires are connected to the circuit breakers in the red box, on the same level in the panel.

Are the two breakers on the same leg? This is theoretically incorrect, right?

Edit: added a bigger picture. In this situation, I'm referring to one part of each of the separate two switch breakers that are sharing a neutral.

 

[Jim greengo]

Your picture is kind of blurry on my phone,but if they're straight across from each other yes they are.
If they're on same side of panel every other one is also on same leg.

 

[pattenp]

If it's a MWBC then the breaker needs to be a double pole breaker or two singles side-by-side with a handle tie. Make sure it is a MWBC with a single neutral shared by the outlets, that means one outlet is on one breaker and the other outlet is on the other breaker using the same neutral back to the panel.

 

[Jim greengo]

What's on each of the 2 outlets?

 

[alfredeneuman]

The requirement for handle ties or multi-pole breakers on MWBCs has only been around since the adoption of the 2008 NEC. I think the panel predates that.
Before that time, breakers weren't even required to be in consecutive spaces.

(I don't see the red box on the photo), but if they are the same level in the panel like you said, they're on the same phase.

 

[marklbucla]

Yes, I have MWBCs, but from what you guys are saying, they're both on the same legs.

I actually have two rows of this going on in the panel, but right next to each other:

MWBC1 MWBC1 (sharing a neutral)
MWBC2 MWBC2 (sharing a different neutral)

It looks like the home seller (a licensed electrician ) put only one outlet on each side of one of the MWBCs and then 1 outlet one one side and a bunch of outlets on the other. I don't expect to have anything hooked up to one side of each of the MWBCs, so I don't imagine that I'll get an overloaded neutral?

If this were to be corrected, it seems like I could take a few options:

1. just swap one of the breaker positions to correct this:
MWBC1 MWBC2
MWBC1 MWBC2

2. Run a neutral wire through the same conduit so that all the circuits have their own neutral.

3. Can one of the breakers be removed and then just have the existing outlet be rewired on a different circuit (or not at all)?

 

[alfredeneuman]

The best option are double pole breakers (if the current breakers are the same ratings)
If not the same 2 single pole breakers with a handle ties.
That would satisfy the newer Codes.
There is plenty of room in the panel for additional breakers, and you could leave the existing unwired breakers in place for use as filler plates (another requirement is not to have any holes in the panel)

 

[marklbucla]

The best option are double pole breakers (if the current breakers are the same ratings)
If not the same 2 single pole breakers with a handle ties.
That would satisfy the newer Codes.
There is plenty of room in the panel for additional breakers, and you could leave the existing unwired breakers in place for use as filler plates (another requirement is not to have any holes in the panel)

So just to clarify, it sounds like you're indirectly also saying that I can just disconnect part of the MWBC to make it a regular circuit. The unwired circuit breakers can sit in the panel.

 

[alfredeneuman]

You'd have to disconnect both wires on each of the 2 breakers.
Then install double poles or single poles with handle ties.

 

[thewatusi]

What's the voltage between the two? If it's zero they're on the same leg.

 

[Stuff]

For now you could just swap two breakers on the right.

Make it:
MWBC1 MWBC2
MWBC2 MWBC1

 

[Zeke]

No neutral being shared. That's a double tap on the right side breaker with the 2 black wires. That's bad stuff. Remove the 2 breakers and add a double poled breaker.

If one of those black wires was put back on the vacant breaker below, you would have a MWBC but not the right breaker setup. Do what AEN said.

 

[alfredeneuman]

It's not a double tap.
That is an old SqD QO tandem.
It has 2 breakers, and separate lugs for each.

EDIT: Actually QO lugs under are 30A are listed for use with 2 wires of the same size per terminal.
There could be as many as 4 wires to it and it wouldn't be double tapped

 

[marklbucla]

You'd have to disconnect both wires on each of the 2 breakers.
Then install double poles or single poles with handle ties.

I'm perfectly happy with deleting one leg of each branch circuit. Can I just remove one of the hots, leaving the other hot and a neutral for each? I assume I'm okay with leaving only one wire on each circuit breaker?

One outlet can easily be wired to the opposite part of a MWBC since the whole thing runs through the same box. The outlet on the other MWBC referenced is a GFCI a couple of inches outside of a shower.

 

[pattenp]

If the MWBC is in conduit and you can convert it to two single circuits by adding a neutral that's what I'd do.

 

[Jim greengo]

It's not a double tap.
That is an old SqD QO tandem.
It has 2 breakers, and separate lugs for each.

EDIT: Actually QO lugs under are 30A are listed for use with 2 wires of the same size per terminal.
There could be as many as 4 wires to it and it wouldn't be double tapped

Qo and homeline are both made that way.

 

[Zeke]

It's not a double tap.
That is an old SqD QO tandem.
It has 2 breakers, and separate lugs for each.

EDIT: Actually QO lugs under are 30A are listed for use with 2 wires of the same size per terminal.
There could be as many as 4 wires to it and it wouldn't be double tapped

That's crazy. Wish the pic was clearer.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Get a meter and see if you have 240v line to line.