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Is Sears dragging down Danaher's reputation?

Merkava_4

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I'm thinking they are. I'm thinking Danaher Tool Group could stand to gain a much better reputation for quality if they didn't have to succumb to the pressure by Sears to make an inexpensive product called "Craftsman." How many times have you heard a professional automotive technician refer to a Matco tool as a "Craftsman tool in drag?" Think of how Matco could stand to benefit if they had no association with the brand "Craftsman." Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Craftsman; what I resent is what Sears has done to Craftsman. I'm thinking Sears has ruined the Craftsman brand by trying to compete with the prices of Asian imports while still trying to maintain the stateside manufacturing origin. You can't have it both ways.
 
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nate379

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No issues with Craftsman here. I used them right alongside my Snap On, Cornwell, MAC, and Matco tools just fine.
 

Joelfke

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i wouldnt say sears is bringing down danaher...id say sears is bringing down craftsman....us fulltime mechanics know danaher makes quality matco stuff
 
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Merkava_4

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I just wish Matco and Craftsman weren't made by the same company; I certainly hope they don't roll out the same door. :shocking:
 

RRmech

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I don't think the casual tool user could even tell the difference between today's Craftsman....and 1970's Craftsman?

Steve
 

Fedwrench

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No. You need to quit lumping all of Danaher's brands into a single pile. Although each of the lines share some production aspects, they are different for the most part. Additionally, in a recent brand index survey Craftsman was voted as the third best value for your time and money. As has been posted already, most people care more about the lifetime warranty and paying pennies per piece than they do about getting a top quality tool. You may be unhappy with Craftsman quality but, where else can you get a US made tool with a lifetime warranty for pennies on the piece? They may not be perfect (no tool brand is) but, they offer a decent product. This fixation of yours with Danaher products has lasted too long, move on to something else. Perhaps you should also ponder the affect of Danaher winning a multimillion dollar government contract to produce modular tool kits will have on the Armstrong brand too.:wtf:
As for a tech calling a Matco tool a Craftsman tool, techs that use their tools know the difference. I hear more of that trash talk here than anywhere else. Tool dealers often spread lies about their competition but, it's up to the user to use what they like.
 
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Merkava_4

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You may be unhappy with Craftsman quality

I'm fine with the poor quality of Craftsman, just don't stamp USA on it is what I'm saying.

As has been posted already, most people care more about the lifetime warranty and paying pennies per piece than they do about getting a top quality tool.

There may be a lifetime warranty, and people may be paying pennies a piece, but will the tool last a lifetime if used everyday?

This fixation of yours with Danaher products has lasted too long, move on to something else.

I'm thinking it makes for a good topic discussion; and besides, there's hasn't been enough new threads started lately to keep me entertained. :D
 
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vette-kid

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I'm fine with the poor quality of Craftsman, just don't stamp USA on it is what I'm saying.
What the heck man! Craftsman is the tool of choics for the DIYer based on price and quality (bang for the buck). Most of us are pretty damned proud that its still made in the US

There may be a lifetime warranty, and people may be paying pennies a piece, but will the tool last a lifetime if used everyday?
No they wont last a lifetime. But thats whats so great about them. Break it, go to sears, replace free, rinse, repeat. I fail to see the problem here.

I'm thinking it makes for a good topic discussion; and besides, there's hasn't been enough new threads started lately to keep me entertained. :D

Instigator:bitchslap
 

Keep

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Is there an ignore feature here? I get tired of reading the same "Craftsman *****" out of the same mouths all the time......

We get it you do not like Craftsman....move along
 
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Merkava_4

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What the heck man! Craftsman is the tool of choics for the DIYer based on price and quality (bang for the buck). Most of us are pretty damned proud that its still made in the US

Do I need to go digging up all the prior threads where the discussion was about Craftsman defects? I suppose I will if I have to. :(
 

Chief

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Very good question. So many thoughts come to my head, but i will try to distill into a few sentences.

1) anyone who uses craftsman with regularity will notice the decrease in quality. (not sure if this qualifies as a casual user or not) I started assembling my own collection of tools to use in the early 90's. I can definately tell the difference from screwdrivers to ratchets.

2) despite the lifetime warranty, in general, i stay clear of craftsman. if its an odd tool, i will use for a one off application ill go with craftsman. otherwise i wont. its not worth the risk of breaking a tool when you need it and then having to drive to sears for a replacement. it takes too long and they might not have it in stock

3) i agree quality is going down to complete with HF and others but long term it will hurt. it used to be having craftsman in your tool chest meant you had a solid reliable set of tools ready for continous use. todays craftsman is more suited to the occasional home owner who needs them for light duty. (this commetn does not apply to their "professional line". for some reason, i stay away from these.

4) disclosure, all my wrenches, ratchets, sockets screwdrivers etc are mid 90's craftsman. I own no truck brands. when i need to add to my arsenal which is infrequent, i buy used stuff at swap meets etc
 

vette-kid

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Do I need to go digging up all the prior threads where the discussion was about Craftsman defects? I suppose I will if I have to. :(

Please, for the love of God NO! I understand and agree the CMan quality is not as good as some of the truck brands. And Ill agree that the quality has diminished...plastic reverse levers on ratchets, screwdrivers are pretty lame (tips seems to bend if you look at them funny:wtf:), stamping on sockets is pretty spotty (maybe mine were a bad batch, but some of them are only half stamped), etc etc. But that still doesnt change the fact that they are the best bang for the buck in a US made tool. I have considered a complete swap over to TopTul or something, but without a retailer down the street from me that option has its own issues. And I do like the fact that CMan is US made still (I TRY to buy US...if quality and price are equal Ill buy US). The problem is that there just isnt another brand that makes as decent of a tool, at around the same price point, with as large of a retail network as CMan. If I had another option then I would for sure walk away, solely on the fact that Sears customer service ***** @$$.

If I had to use my tools daily to make a living, then it would be different.
 

jkeyser14

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I have no major issues with Craftsman quality. It's a tool and it gets the job done. At work we have Craftsman sets that get used on a daily basis doing work on large military vehicles. The project I'm working on has been using the same tool set for over a year now without a single thing broken. Sure some of the chrome is gone on some of the sockets, but that's because the techs use them on impact wrenches all the time.

I'm also very glad that they are made in the USA. Their production means a lot of jobs that stay in the country. If all Craftsman stuff was made in the US and exported that would be even better, but apparently Canada has their own production facility cranking out wrenches as well.
 
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Merkava_4

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But that still doesnt change the fact that they are the best bang for the buck in a US made tool.

See, that's the problem with the people in this country - too much "bang for the buck" way of thinking - that's why I admire the way the Germans think - "We're going to put out high quality tools no matter what, and if you don't like the prices we're charging for them, that's tough!!" :pimpflash
 
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Moose-LandTran

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See, that's the problem with the people in this country - too much "bang for the buck" way of thinking - that's why I admire the way the Germans think - "We're going to put out high quality tools no matter what, and if you don't like the prices we're charging for them, that's tough!!" :pimpflash

Right on.

Here's how it is:

High Quality/Low Price/Lifetime Warranty.

Pick two.
 

forceyoda

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I think they are. I just got my first matco socket set of ebay last week and was very suprised at how nice they are. I was expecting craftsman quality because of the whole danaher family tree image I had but it is not the case.
 

Rigmaster

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See, that's the problem with the people in this country - too much "bang for the buck" way of thinking; that's why I admire the way the Germans think: "We're going to put out high quality tools no matter what; and if you don't like the prices we're charging for them, that's tough!!" :pimpflash

Maybe you need to brush up on your German then?


:thumbup:


Seriously Merk, I don't know what you're point is, other than to stir up the sh!t- and you're doing an excellent job of that BTW. :thumbup:


"Made in USA" has NEVER meant that it's the best across the board. Think about Cameras and electronics back 20 or more years ago- most people would say the Japan-made or German-made stuff was the benchmark for serious photogs or audiophiles. Sure, there was some quality US-made stuff but there was also US-made **** (and there still is).


Nothing's gonna change that, manufacturers are always trying to find the right mix of cost/quality/price. The only way they'll stop making it is if they don't make any money on it- and there are enough people who swear by Cman that that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
 
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Merkava_4

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I don't know why I care so much about Danaher anyway, they're just a bunch of low bidding contract whores; I should just wash my hands of them and be done with it. :cool:
 

vette-kid

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haha, yeah hes just stirrin the pot...thats cool, Ill play:bounce:

Whats wrong with the "bang for the buck" point of view. We cant all afford to go buy the highest quality price be damned! If I could afford it, then yeah, I would have a tool box full of snap-on, etc. But I cant afford to do that and still have toys to use them on. So I work with a a tool of sufficient quality for my needs (that can be replaced for free if need be...dont know why I need to keep bringing this up?) and I can afford to fill my box with (uh...so to speak).
 

Chief

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Is there an ignore feature here? I get tired of reading the same "Craftsman *****" out of the same mouths all the time......

We get it you do not like Craftsman....move along

C'mon thats what we do here.

We are hopeless addicts.

When you think about it, there are very few threads that are unique and new. I think most of know that but we keep coming back :)
 

daveblank

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I think they are. I just got my first matco socket set of ebay last week and was very suprised at how nice they are. I was expecting craftsman quality because of the whole danaher family tree image I had but it is not the case.

The problem is that you had a pre-conceived idea about the quality based on a name. Where the Craftsman problem occurs is, they tell Danaher the specs that they want the tools to be built to. This will include tolerances & metal hardness. Therefore, it's not all the same.

BTW, I'm not picking on you, I was using your post as an example.
 

RRmech

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Since I'm not a f*cking millionaire.....I care A LOT about bang-for-the-buck!!
While I don't go to the DOLLAR STORE to purchase my tools.....I also try to avoid the tool truck brands, UNLESS I can get a good deal on flea-bay.
With the possible exception of their ultra-crappy ratchets, I STILL feel that CRAFSTMAN tools are VERY good bang-for-the-buck!

Steve
 

rhp

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No, Danaher is dragging itself down.
See the related post: Matco "Made in China"
 

Stuey

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There may be a lifetime warranty, and people may be paying pennies a piece, but will the tool last a lifetime if used everyday?
Someone using a particular Craftsman tool every day should soon have enough earnings to upgrade to a "better" or more durable tool.

Anyways, Merkava, your core argument has an ENORMOUS fundamental flaw.

You propose that Sears is dragging down Danaher's reputation.

I counter with this - many people have never heard of Danaher. We, the type of people on GJ, are not what you consider average or typical.

The typical tool buyer knows that Sears sells Craftsman tools. Everyone knows of Craftsman. Few know of Danaher.

If you ask say 100 DIYers or hobbyists what brand of tools Sears sells, most will say Craftsman. Ask them who makes those tools, they will say Craftsman. Only a select few will say "Danaher and various other manufacturers."

So... even IF Sears is bringing down the Danaher name for those that are familiar with Danaher, the majority of Craftsman shoppers are unaffected. If Sears' Craftsman line was entirely switched to a different supplier, Danaher's sales would certainly be dealt a crippling blow - such a blow in fact, that they would likely have to raise prices on their other tool lines or drop manufacturing costs.

Speculation aside, think about it, for every one person who owns say, Matco tools, how many own Craftsman. For every $1000 in Matco tools that are bought, how many $1000s and $1000s of Craftsman tools are bought.

Let me give you another example. How many people buy Dell computers? If I recall correctly, my parents' computer has a Foxconn motherboard inside. If I went to my father and told him that I was going to build his next computer with a Foxconn motherboard, he'll say no.

The majority of people don't know, nor do they care to know, about manufacturers or suppliers other than the brand name they see on a product. This why so many people buy junky "Kawasaki" and "Jeep" bicycles, and crappy imported Snap-on flashlights.
 

Art From De Leon

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"The majority of people don't know, nor do they care to know, about manufacturers or suppliers other than the brand name they see on a product. This why so many people buy junky "Kawasaki" and "Jeep" bicycles, and crappy imported Snap-on flashlights."

Very true, altho it is a shame that world leading companies like Snap On, John Deere, Caterpillar, and others have prostituted their name by catering to wanna-bees, or DIY's whose only reason for buying these names is for bragging rights with their one upmanship war with their equally clueless neighbor.
As I have said in the past, given the fact that the 'pros' at Popular Mechanics will shill for this ****, does NOT mean that the junk is worth hauling home, only that they were paid for their opinion, which, given that, PM is owned by the same company that publishes Good Housekeeping would mean that the PM 'expert' probably doubles at reviewing douches, tampons, and cake mixes.
 

nate379

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Not really. My Dad has been turning wrenches for over 40 years and he mainly uses Craftsman.

He is like me, no brand fixation and just because a wrench cost $100 vs one that cost $10, it doesn't make it better! Sometimes it's the same damn thing even.

Sure some of the Craftsman stuff *****, but the same applies to ANY and ALL of the other tool companies.

When I was running a tool room we had a mix of Craftsman, Snap On and Matco between the boxes.

I no joke replaced a Snap On tool vs a Craftsman tool easily 3 to 1.

No the guys weren't harder on the Snappy stuff.


Someone using a particular Craftsman tool every day should soon have enough earnings to upgrade to a "better" or more durable tool.
 
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kmorgancraw

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Danaher is dragging itself down by turning it's top tier brand (Matco) over to Chinese tool manufacturing.
 

cruiser808

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I'm thinking they are. I'm thinking Danaher Tool Group could stand to gain a much better reputation for quality if they didn't have to succumb to the pressure by Sears to make an inexpensive product called "Craftsman." How many times have you heard a professional automotive technician refer to a Matco tool as a "Craftsman tool in drag?" Think of how Matco could stand to benefit if they had no association with the brand "Craftsman." Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Craftsman; what I resent is what Sears has done to Craftsman. I'm thinking Sears has ruined the Craftsman brand by trying to compete with the prices of Asian imports while still trying to maintain the stateside manufacturing origin. You can't have it both ways.

Yep Merk, my 27-year old Craftsman hard tools are still kicking *** and taking names. don't know about anything newer than that.
 

forceyoda

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The problem is that you had a pre-conceived idea about the quality based on a name. Where the Craftsman problem occurs is, they tell Danaher the specs that they want the tools to be built to. This will include tolerances & metal hardness. Therefore, it's not all the same.

BTW, I'm not picking on you, I was using your post as an example.

No problem, I'll admit that I had bad idea about Matco quality based on what craftsman sells but I realize now how differrent they are.
 

speed bump

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Nope, actually to most people that would actually be a validation of Danaher making a good product because more people have heard of Craftsman than Matco, Armstrong, KD, Allen or any thing else Danaher sells.
 

swduncan

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I suspect that the number of people who even know what Danaher is and that they make Craftsman tools, relative to the total market for Craftsman tools, is microscopic. Even so, I think in this day and age, the concept of multiple brands of product being produced on the same line to wildly different standards of quality is common enough.

I think Sears is causing far more damage to itself than to anyone else, judging by my usual shopping experience there, but that's not tool-specific.

To find the cause of the decreasing quality/feature set of Craftsman tools look no further than the nearest guy who is abusing the warranty.

You didn't think that warranty was free, did you?

Rant
I suspect warranty wording is changing as an indicator of quality.

Lifetime against defects in materials or workmanship is reasonable, and for tools that I know I won't break without abusing them (like, all of them) I know I'm getting good value.

Lifetime against breakage/wear when used for it's intended purpose is worth paying extra for, perhaps, but some tools just aren't going to last by their nature. I'm paying in part for people who think screwdrivers shouldn't ever need sharpening - really, I'm paying to have mine sharpened in advance, more or less.

Lifetime against being dissatisfied means I'm paying extra to indulge a population of childish idiots who can't be bothered to buy or use the proper tool for the job, have outrageous standards of perfection (i.e. a nick or dent in a wrench renders it unfit to keep), or don't care for their tools.
/Rant

If Sears were smart, they would release a new line of tools at a higher quality and price point to relative to regular Craftsman. They would give it a similar but different name, but they would alter the warranty slightly to rid them of the bulk of abusers. Honest folks will still be satisfied, probably more satisfied than they are now. The rest can shop the bargain bin at Harbor Freight or whatever importer seizes the chance to be in the lifetime tool replacement business.
 

Identaltech

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from what I have seen from other danaher company
sears is right in line with danaher business practice.
I have to deal with them with my job and I am not always impressed.
 
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GT89mustang

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I think its the other way around, or at least hand in hand. Ive seen more stuff then I shouldve come into the store broken in the package. Also the stuff lowes sells that they make isnt that much better. Even some of the gearwrench stuff, while a good buy, isnt the best in that price range.
 
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Merkava_4

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Seriously Merk, I don't know what you're point is, other than to stir up the sh!t- and you're doing an excellent job of that BTW. :thumbup:

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:bounce: ... :bounce: ... :bounce: ... :lol: ... :lol: ... :lol:
 

-B-

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I'm thinking they are. I'm thinking Danaher Tool Group could stand to gain a much better reputation for quality if they didn't have to succumb to the pressure by Sears to make an inexpensive product called "Craftsman." How many times have you heard a professional automotive technician refer to a Matco tool as a "Craftsman tool in drag?" Think of how Matco could stand to benefit if they had no association with the brand "Craftsman." Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Craftsman; what I resent is what Sears has done to Craftsman. I'm thinking Sears has ruined the Craftsman brand by trying to compete with the prices of Asian imports while still trying to maintain the stateside manufacturing origin. You can't have it both ways.


Wrong way around proof is in the amount of tools that are not made in the USA and of piss poor QC that Dunner has brought in. Dunner as the name implies is going to run every label the posses into the done pile.


quality in the hand not in a picture matters
 
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