Is SO just a name these days?

[Rich.]

Hi guys, let me start off by saying this thread is in no way to bash snap on, im 20 years old and thrown, i would say $20k, in snap on tools and storage, as you can imagine at my age, that’s a large commitment.

I’m a maintenance engineer by trade, spend most of my time working on large machinery and the like.

I’ve always been into practical stuff, dads an engineer and used to take me out on jobs with him since i could walk. I’ve had lots of tools over the years, from Halfords (im aware you US gys might not know of this) to Britool, and never had a hiccup with them.

Now, I’ve upgraded all of my tools to snap on, probably the past 2 years I’ve been collecting, however since I’ve had my new job (about 6 months), I’ve been using my tools every day, however i would still say not half as much as a vehicle tech would use theirs. And over the last month or so, I’ve broken;

1/4" 5mm ball ended hex key (Ball snapped off the end, not abused, on a 1/4" ratchet so hard to put too much force on)

Soft grip chisel (Half the tip chipped off, almost right upto the shank)

5mm soft grip T handle hex key (End edges have rounded off, useless in all but the newest of bolts)

Instinct handle scribe (Shaft snapped right off when scoring some steel pate, not excessive force in the slightest)

1/2 SHLF80 ratchet (Yolk cracked right in the corner, just below where the head bolts on)

My dad agrees on this, he always regarded Snap On to be the best out there, although after all the problems I’m having with my tools he thinks standards have slipped. I’m wondering if any guys that have been around these tools for a while would agree?

Don’t get me wrong, as soon as i see my snappy guy I’m sure i will get them swapped straight over, just to me it seems like I’m having a lot of tool failures considering I’m not abusing my tools in the slightest, all tools are cleaned, moving parts oiled, all organised perfectly not just chucked in a drawer ect. And when i think that a vehicle tech uses his tools probably 80% of the day, compared to the 20% or so i probably use mine, I don’t understand why so much is breaking if the tools i have spent all my hard earned on are supposed to be the best in the world?

Are they really still as good as they’re meant to be? Or are they now just charging for the name, and not the flagship manufacturer they once were?

Thanks
Rich

 

[1982fxr]

this doesn't answer your question, but out of curiosity, is it easy to get Wright tools over there? I mean in stores, not online

 

[jontar]

Yes snap off standards have slipped, esspecially in the last 5 yrs, the blue point line is all off shore now and the the snap on stuff has come down to were the blue point stuff was before it left for taiwan/chine. We have a tool allowance at work and can just charge to the company account on the truck, but most people have quit buying off the truck, to be fair this is partly becuase the new dealer (took over the truck) is horrible to deal with and the tool prices have gone up and the quaility gone down, most guys buy klein, channellock, knipex, c-man, mastercraft, sk, ideal, alot of proto, williams, blackhawk, ultrapro, now instead.

 

[bobcatdan]

Any tool can break and that includes SO. I do not think overall quailty has slipped, maybe quality control is down a little bit and subpar tools are sneaking out, I could beleive this. For all the chicom stuff sneaking onto the SO truck, it pails to the other three trucks. If you want to see a tool company fail from grace, look at craftsman.

 

[buco]

Just wondering, living in Europe why wouldn't you go with Hazet over Snap-on?

 

[concealer404]

Any tool can break and that includes SO. I do not think overall quailty has slipped, maybe quality control is down a little bit and subpar tools are sneaking out, I could beleive this. For all the chicom stuff sneaking onto the SO truck, it pails to the other three trucks. If you want to see a tool company fail from grace, look at craftsman.

Aren't these things mutually exclusive?

 

[Rich.]

Thats a point i was trying to get across, i understand tools break, the warrenties there for a reason, just i would expect so much to go wrong in such a short period of time!

Thanks
Rich

 

[Motor-Mechanic]

Personally i think that Snap-On quality has slipped, it's definately not what it once was.

If i can find a decent supplier of Hazet and/or Stahlwille that's where i'd prefer to spend my cash.

 

[jjjrmx5]

My dad agrees on this, he always regarded Snap On to be the best out there, although after all the problems I’m having with my tools he thinks standards have slipped. I’m wondering if any guys that have been around these tools for a while would agree?

Have S-O standards slipped? If so, I really don't feel by any incredible or overly noticable margin.

Tools break. Tools wear. Tools wear out.Even the best of them. It's not like Snap-On uses kryptonite to make thier tools with. Then you have the warranty if they do.

If you don't feel the return on the value you pay for them, then stop buying them. Done.

If used professionally, industrially and daily, they are at the still at top of the list for most users-especially mfg and pros..

Subscribe and Pontificate all you want as to the old "OMG chicken little, the sky is falling" mentality. I think that's all rubbish.

They're 10's or more liikely 100's of thousands of non GJ professional users out there that will kick that squarley in teh nut sack.

I will also add that tools can and do often break when using the wrong tool for teh wrong job. Just because it has snap-on stamped on it does not mean a 1/4" drive socket will remove a 18mm bolt. Hell, drop a hard handled ratcheting screwdriver from a meter above onto a concrete floor. The handle will split like a melon--usually at the cap joint. Happened to me twice. Is that a quality/standards slip?

In my decades as a professional I've seen tools break due to misuse vs QC and design and quality probably 50 to 1 if not more.

 

[HandyManny]

I'm sure that SO's line of sockets, extentions, ratchets, and wrenches are as good as ever still today. Some of there specialty stuff also, but as far as everythig esle goes, you can get just as good by going with other brands or OEMs. Just my opinion.

 

[Bill R.]

Hi guys, let me start off by saying this thread is in no way to bash snap on, im 20 years old and thrown, i would say $20k, in snap on tools and storage, as you can imagine at my age, that’s a large commitment.

I’m a maintenance engineer by trade, spend most of my time working on large machinery and the like.

I’ve always been into practical stuff, dads an engineer and used to take me out on jobs with him since i could walk. I’ve had lots of tools over the years, from Halfords (im aware you US gys might not know of this) to Britool, and never had a hiccup with them.

Now, I’ve upgraded all of my tools to snap on, probably the past 2 years I’ve been collecting, however since I’ve had my new job (about 6 months), I’ve been using my tools every day, however i would still say not half as much as a vehicle tech would use theirs. And over the last month or so, I’ve broken;

1/4" 5mm ball ended hex key (Ball snapped off the end, not abused, on a 1/4" ratchet so hard to put too much force on)

Soft grip chisel (Half the tip chipped off, almost right upto the shank)

5mm soft grip T handle hex key (End edges have rounded off, useless in all but the newest of bolts)

Instinct handle scribe (Shaft snapped right off when scoring some steel pate, not excessive force in the slightest)

1/2 SHLF80 ratchet (Yolk cracked right in the corner, just below where the head bolts on)

My dad agrees on this, he always regarded Snap On to be the best out there, although after all the problems I’m having with my tools he thinks standards have slipped. I’m wondering if any guys that have been around these tools for a while would agree?

Don’t get me wrong, as soon as i see my snappy guy I’m sure i will get them swapped straight over, just to me it seems like I’m having a lot of tool failures considering I’m not abusing my tools in the slightest, all tools are cleaned, moving parts oiled, all organised perfectly not just chucked in a drawer ect. And when i think that a vehicle tech uses his tools probably 80% of the day, compared to the 20% or so i probably use mine, I don’t understand why so much is breaking if the tools i have spent all my hard earned on are supposed to be the best in the world?

Are they really still as good as they’re meant to be? Or are they now just charging for the name, and not the flagship manufacturer they once were?

Thanks
Rich

The only thing i see in your post that i'm suprised at is that the chisel actually broke, i wish mine were hard enough to break or shatter,

I say this because i remember when back in the early 70's snap on punches ,chisels and screwdrivers were the premium tool you would expect. Punches and chisel's never mushroomed and held and edge like you wouldn't believe. Screwdrivers held their edge also...... Then I think it was osha came along and made them change all the tool steel standards on the punches,chisels etc. to soften them up so they couldn't shatter and hurt someone..
After that the punches were like they were made of silly putty and chisels wouldn't hold an edge etc. This wasn't snap on's fault it was the gov. looking out for us poor tool using idiots.

 

[Rich.]

Just wondering, living in Europe why wouldn't you go with Hazet over Snap-on?

Mostly for availibility, the SO truck calls in weekly, i get good service and good deals, and finance if i ever happen to need it. Hazet or Elora were both possible candidates, but the range of snap on gear available, the reputation and in some ways the design swayed me, as well as the reasons listed above.

Jjjrmx5, you seem to have well and truly missed my point. Im asking if people feel standards have slipped, im not complaining, saying ive wasted my money, or infact am unhappy in any way. I think you've jumped on the defensive a little early, considering i started my post with 'i in no way intend to bash snap on'

Rich

 

[mrshaun]

the amount of tools that i send in for warranty are not any higher than they were 10 years ago. I think that the loc-tite is better than it was a few years ago though..

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I don't think anything has really gone down hill over the years with snap on tool performance. I've had snap on tools for over 30 years.

What I do believe though there isn't any significant quality differences between major tool brands. If you work at a shop where the tool truck will come buy and warranty your broken tools, that is a service priced into the product that is a great to have.


Heres a pic of a project from last weekend. When body mounts have been on this long(1973 model) couple with the rust issues you are going to break some stuff. I had been spraying pb blaster for a few days beforhand.

Started out with a 1/2 drive circa 1960s crafty ratchet and snappy socket. Front passenger side body mount bolt wrung.

Rear passenger body mount bolt head eventually rounds. I ended up welding a nut to what is left of the bolt. Snappy socket splits. I end up going a crafty socket and I am able to remove the bolt.

Drivers side rear body mount bolt comes right out.

Drivers side front body mount bolt splits crafty socket. Now comes out the kobolt socket. End up with another wrung bolt.

Now what can one conclude?? Well some might say the asian imported kobolt socket is the best made because it didn't break.

I think all of the above brands are about the same and have no problem buying tools from 3 brands again.

One thing is for sure it is a good idea to have more than just one of something regardless of brand.

 

[bobcatdan]

Aren't these things mutually exclusive?

What I ment by that is the tools are the same quailty. I think more seconds are sneaking pass inspectors that should never see the light of day. I have bought a couple tools that the finish was a little subpar, but functionally where fine. I was pretty salty when a $2000 puller set showed up rusty, my dealer heard about that.

 

[nine4gmc]

Ibtl!

 

[richfinn]

Just wondering, living in Europe why wouldn't you go with Hazet over Snap-on?

Its hard to get Hazet and Stahlwille in Britain believe it or not, Snap On on the other hand have a decent network with a production facility and distribution and dealers in most towns and they finance tools to young techs.

My tip if your a Brit in the North, is buy new Facom from AP Tech

Or buy old Britool from ebay

There is also Gedore/Klann dealer in North Yorks but its not cheap

 

[billymade]

richfinn, what about one of the older British brands like King ****; are they an option, are they readily available to the professional in the field? I know working on things all day; onsite service does make a big difference. After you working with your hands for a number of years (the novelty wears off for sure); the last thing you want to do, when you get off work... is go to a store to have warranty tool exchanges done or to buy things. You do definitely pay for the onsite service; however.

http://www.kingdicktools.co.uk/

Other brands as well:

http://www.britool-expert.co.uk/

http://www.draper.co.uk/

http://www.sealey.co.uk

 

[Hiball]

Are they really still as good as they’re meant to be? Or are they now just charging for the name, and not the flagship manufacturer they once were?

Thanks
Rich

I think they still are, Obviously.. There Product Line has probably tripled over the last 20-30 years due to New Technology/Fasteners etc.. I cant really comment on there New Chisels because everything i own is 20+ years old. Judging by your tool descriptions it appears that you either use the 5mm hex drivers alot or Did you run into one that was Overly Snug being that you broke/Deformed 2 of them?

You will find broken tools in just about Every brand out there.. In the end how a company stands behind there product is what is important. In the same breath i don't want to be warrantying tools every week. If you find that you continue to break a certain tool/Size, Try another Brand. In the End your Money will always be there for Snap on in regards to Re-sale value.

 

[redwrench60]

Quality down? Nah. But I do go through cycles where I go months without breaking a tool and then all at once I twist off a torx bit, strip a twist socket and snap a screwdriver tip in one week (last week)......go figure

 

[Rich.]

Hi Hiball, you have got my point exactly so thanks for that!

Yes, 5mm hex is a size i do tend to use alot, again i guess this may be dofferent coming from a machinary field to a car/truck field, i find 2.5 to 17mm hex keys to probably be the most common fasteners i use. As for the 5mm, nope, few weeks seperatiom between them and a totally different machine.

As you say, the warrenty is fine, but being without a tool for a few days waiting for the van to call round is a PITA!

Thanks
Rich

 

[richfinn]

richfinn, what about one of the older British brands like King ****; are they an option, are they readily available to the professional in the field? I know working on things all day; onsite service does make a big difference. After you working with your hands for a number of years (the novelty wears off for sure); the last thing you want to do, when you get off work... is go to a store to have warranty tool exchanges done or to buy things. You do definitely pay for the onsite service; however.

http://www.kingdicktools.co.uk/

Other brands as well:

http://www.britool-expert.co.uk/

http://www.draper.co.uk/

http://www.sealey.co.uk

I have some King **** and old Melco stuff and its decent quality if a bit old fashioned, the Britool Expert and Draper stuff is OK far east stuff.

I really like the few bits of old Britool stuff I have, Its not fancy chrome or anything, just old National Coal Board/British rail/HM Armed Forces standard issue used by people who had to get the job done in the 60s/70s and 80s (you know stuff from that era is just good quality with no marketing ********).

I really like my 80s/90s Snap On stuff too, no silly rubber handles or buttons or fancy gears. Just the basic handles and old style ratchets and stuff like that. I dont really go for all that matched colours and soft handles, its just a sales gimmick to me.

I have a few other Brit tools like Eclipse hacksaws, Thor hammers and some old Sheffield steel knives and stuff like that (Sheffield is down the road 30 miles but that industry is almost gone now sadly).

I would say on balance I think Britool at its peak was every bit as good as the USA made tools, and just nicer for us because it was made to work on British equipment. I think a lot of GJ fans would have liked Britools no nonsense approach

I also have some AVO meters and a more modern USA Fluke.

Sealey sell some interesting stuff but its all imported.

I like my Facom Screwdrivers (you cant beat the French at Screwing ) The Handles just suit my style I suppose, I did persevere with Snappy Hard Handles for a couple of years but I never thought they were as good to be honest and are too long (I dont like the Facom ratchet handles though).

I think there are lots of great tool manufacturers but you need to try a few to find what suits your style sometimes, my dad was a joiner (carpenter) and he was very selective about what he would use If it was uncomfortable or in any way not to his liking he would never use it again (I also do this) and would carry on with some old favourite.

I dont think any engineer should have an entire kit from the same manufacturer, and I always like to see homemade/adapted stuff too.

 

[supersteve]

What I ment by that is the tools are the same quailty. I think more seconds are sneaking pass inspectors that should never see the light of day. I have bought a couple tools that the finish was a little subpar, but functionally where fine. I was pretty salty when a $2000 puller set showed up rusty, my dealer heard about that.

I'm wondering about this too. Today on the S-o truck I saw a 5/8 spark plug socket that evidently had the ID stamping procedure done twice(overstamped). You couldn't even read what it said.

 

[Roots]

Quality wise, particularly their proprietary hardline tools, I don't see any difference in quality today versus the past ten years.

 

[billymade]

On the Snapon hex bit sockets; I don't know if you have the "gold" versions but they are the high strength, much stronger then the standard ones. If you have the silver colored ones; make you sure you get the gold when you take it to get it warranted, maybe a little extra money but totally worth the upgrade if your dealer will let you.

 

[OEXL16B]

Quality wise, particularly their proprietary hardline tools, I don't see any difference in quality today versus the past ten years.

My only complaint is that they're bending their wrenches now. It used to be back in the 1990's that they would put the offset into the wrench at the time of the forging process with the forging die. But now they're forging the wrench flat and then bending them later on right before they're heat treated. The forged offset used to look a lot cleaner and more precise. Snap-on used brag and brag about how their wrenches are superior because they're not bent. Now they're bending their wrenches like everybody else does.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Jjjrmx5, you seem to have well and truly missed my point. Im asking if people feel standards have slipped, im not complaining, saying ive wasted my money, or infact am unhappy in any way. I think you've jumped on the defensive a little early, considering i started my post with 'i in no way intend to bash snap on'

Rich

Actually, I thought my answer was quite fair, although to the point and quite pragmatic.

I busted my fair share of Snap-On tools over my lifetime. Some due to abuse. A few to daft misuse. A few to general failure.

Heat a hex head socket screw briefly and the fastener will come out easily with a S-O bit socket. Don't heat it and use teh same bit socket and the bit just snaps. Tools fault for not holding up or my daftness for not knowing to heat it up or use a different tool.

Snap-On suppliers come and go thus flexes quality for those items. Steel batches flux by a minutia. Tooling and stamping dies wear over time.

You asked if quality is slipping. I said no, or if it is, I've not noticed it. I;m not quite sure how I missed the point of your OP.

Sure, some things get thru QC or a tool breaks that you never expected to and it's infuriating. Not ALL snap-On tools out there are the best tools for a given job. but they certainly are at the top of the heap of getting what you pay for IMHO.

 

[HandyManny]

My only complaint is that they're bending their wrenches now. It used to be back in the 1990's that they would put the offset into the wrench at the time of the forging process with the forging die. But now they're forging the wrench flat and then bending them later on right before they're heat treated. The forged offset used to look a lot cleaner and more precise. Snap-on used brag and brag about how their wrenches are superior because they're not bent. Now they're bending their wrenches like everybody else does.

Everybody criticizes the Chinese for cutting corners and producing junk, all the while singing praises to Snap-On for not doing so. I guess Snap-On thought they could pull a fast one on their customers and nobody would notice. I had no idea they were bending that offset these days.

I have some recent Wright combos where the offset was bent to, except in final finishing that offset was bent to less than 5 degrees, other were anywhere from <5 degs to 15 degrees. And everyone also braggs about how high of quality Wright is because it's USA, all the while bashing the third world for making junk.

 

[franzdom]

The mere title of this thread reminds me of so many tool companies like Craftsman, that are JUST a name and don't actually produce anything. At least Snap-On is a tool producer for most of their items. This is becoming the exception rather than the rule it seems lately.

 

[HandyManny]

The mere title of this thread reminds me of so many tool companies like Craftsman, that are JUST a name and don't actually produce anything. At least Snap-On is a tool producer for most of their items. This is becoming the exception rather than the rule it seems lately.

True that Snap-On still makes tools when you include the entire corporation of Snap-On. BUT, if you take the entire tool line of Snap-On, and I'm talking the entire line, not just the basic stuff, you will be suprised to learn just how many tools in their line that they don't actually make.

 

[mrshaun]

handymanny if you looked at anyone now a days, no one does it all. they farm out all sorts of stuff that they keep a secret. ez red, kd, lisle etc make a ton of stuff out there for everyone.

 

[HandyManny]

handymanny if you looked at anyone now a days, no one does it all. they farm out all sorts of stuff that they keep a secret. ez red, kd, lisle etc make a ton of stuff out there for everyone.

Yeah but this is nothing new. It's been that way to some degree with many tools makers and tool lines going back to the early part of the 20th century. Even in it's early days Snap-On was having a certain small number of their tools made for them.

 

[Jure]

Just wondering, living in Europe why wouldn't you go with Hazet over Snap-on?

this!

 

[2oolhound]

The mere title of this thread reminds me of so many tool companies like Craftsman, that are JUST a name and don't actually produce anything. At least Snap-On is a tool producer for most of their items. This is becoming the exception rather than the rule it seems lately.

Good point. We have 2 distinctions,

tool making companies that strived to make quality tools, succeeded and eventually built up a marketing network around their brand over time
and
companies that had a marketing network or consumer network set up (sears, canadian tire etc.) so they subcontracted the manufacturing of their own brand name tools they could middle out to their established market. Tools being just one other product type in their inventory.

 

[richfinn]

this!

I dont think they are interested in selling in the UK, we are not really part of Europe, we dont use the same currency and we flout most of the EU laws that we dont like (they all drive on the wrong side of the road like Yanks)) and we insist on drinking pints of beer and using Miles instead of Kilometers

 

[BHH]

I would say a few hundred dollars worth of FREE repairs / replacements on $20'000 worth of tools is pretty acceptable.