Is standard obsolete?

[SoGaTech]

As a tech in school I was wondering if everything in automotive pretty much moved to metric & away from standard? Everything we've seen at school from honda chevy toyota Ford fiat & nissan has all been metric so I was wondering is there any reason why I should buy standard wrenches & sockets? I don't want to buy them to just collect dust in my box

 

[2000-cvpi]

Modern cars, yes. Older cars, motorcycles, lawn equipment have standard fasteners. It all depends where you work and what you work on.

 

[Erampu]

I'd hate to have to work on my '48 Chevy with nothing but adjustable wrenches.

 

[cvairwerks]

Standard will be obsolete when everything has gone metric and there is nothing left in useable condition that has standard fastener sizes... In other words, long after you are worm food, unless you confine yourself to turning wrenches on metric specific stuff.

 

[B.S.A. (ret.)]

As a tech in school I was wondering if everything in automotive pretty much moved to metric & away from standard? Everything we've seen at school from honda chevy toyota Ford fiat & nissan has all been metric so I was wondering is there any reason why I should buy standard wrenches & sockets? I don't want to buy them to just collect dust in my box

Wise words from everyone previous. There is so much equipment and products utilizing SAE Standard fasteners still out there that there will always be a need for standard tools. Newer autos are the exception as you pointed out they are entirely metric. However, if you are working on lawn/garden equipment, plumbing or other household projects, you will find a need for them. sometimes even a metric fastener exposed to corrosive road chemicals will go out of spec and you may be saved by using a standard fastener on a corroded bolt head. Remember our tool owners motto, "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". Good luck in your chosen profession

 

[jakemac]

If your just starting out as a mechanic, I'd recommend investing in Metric and other auto related standards (Torx, ETorx, etc.). For SAE, buy a HF set, then keep a list of the SAE sizes you use most often and consider upgrading only those sizes.

 

[-Brent-]

I'd love to hear from some of the service guys at one of the big 3 dealerships. I have it in my mind that some of the vehicles had standard on the things you could see/reach and then metric everywhere else. Maybe that's a myth? Still, I'd love to hear if it's something still being done.

 

[rhandwor]

I would use most of your money on metric. Save some for used SAE tools. They are a lot easier to find on ebay or flea markets. Unless you purchase 4.5,5.5,6.3 metric 1/4 drive sockets definitely get a 1/4 drive SAE set shallow and deep. I carry a 1/4 inch SAE socket on my metric sets. SK is only manufacturer that I'm aware of that makes 6.3mm sockets. A lot of household items have screws with SAE heads. My small John Deere riding mower has both. My Mitsubishi small tractor uses metric.
I have used a SAE bolt where the hole has been excessively worn.

 

[rhandwor]

I'd love to hear from some of the service guys at one of the big 3 dealerships. I have it in my mind that some of the vehicles had standard on the things you could see/reach and then metric everywhere else. Maybe that's a myth? Still, I'd love to hear if it's something still being done.

I understand unless an item is totally redesinged it may have SAE bolts and nuts.
Say a Chevy pickup with a 5.7L engine may have some SAE bolts on the motor depending on when its manufactured.
You will find all metric on a German or Japanese vehicle.
If you work for an independent you will need both.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I've heard that only new cars are needing to go to shops nowadays. It's only a rumor.


That's a lie. You better have both, they don't have to be high end tools, but you'll need them.

Can we close this thread now?

 

[md21722]

A ton of shop equipment you will use is still made for standard. Gear pullers, tie rod pullers, pitman arm pullers, ball joint presses, the fittings on your air tools ... The cars themselves are primarily metric, except for aftermarket parts people may install.

I would suggest you get a set of standard wrenches and a set of standard shallow impacts.

 

[md21722]

I'd love to hear from some of the service guys at one of the big 3 dealerships. I have it in my mind that some of the vehicles had standard on the things you could see/reach and then metric everywhere else. Maybe that's a myth? Still, I'd love to hear if it's something still being done.

I don't work for one of the big 3, but have never heard that. What I have seen is the transition to metric, and it was the opposite. For example, they did not rethread the engine blocks or heads until the engine was redesigned. But when they came out a new water pump, the pulley bolts would be metric. Another example, the A/C compressor mount would bolt to the block in standard but the A/C was held down with metric. Axles would internally be standard, but the unit bearings would be metric.

 

[Ign]

We have a weekly thread on this. Here was last week's:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355690

 

[gdocktor3]

You could just buy the sae sockets/wrenches that don't crossover to metric.

 

[chris142]

I still use mine on customers cars daily. Still tons of late 60's ford trucks and early 70' s novas and valiants running around here.

 

[Jim C.]

Not in my shop..... I spend a lot of my free time tinkering with mid 1960s Corvettes, and pre 1960 Delta woodworking machinery. As a matter of fact, I'm continually buying (mostly vintage/used) SAE tools. I guess it all depends on what you like to work on.

Jim C.

 

[dnschmidt]

As a person who sells tools SAE may not be dead but it's definitely on life support. When I first announced on GJ that I would be selling TOPTUL tools I told everybody that I would ONLY be selling metric and got my *** torn out because of it. So, in a moment of stupidity, I brought in some SAE wrench sets. It's likely I'll die before I move these. A lot of what's stated above is true but the problem is that there is so much SAE **** out there that the need for anybody to buy more of it doesn't exist. For the rare times that you'll ever need SAE Harbor Freight or used EBay is the answer. Unless you work for "Restoration Garage" you'll get by fine with HF wrenches and sockets.

 

[T45]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-K-Socket-Set-6-Point-and-12-Point-14-Pieces-New-/271543795584

This is NOS $40 for a full set of 3/8 sockets by SK. If you're a pro tech, you shouldn't sweat spending this kind of Money on SAE. These are probably better investment than a $20 set from HF and will save you spending >$100 on snap-on. You can also cover yourself with wrenches without alot of brain damage for <$100 for 11 pcs of NOS vintage (like proto). If you are really skint, just get some taiwain Tekton... spend less time shopping...and more time budgeting... for Metric tools.

As other folks alluded to upthread, the issue is less about wether you NEED SAE (you do), its more about budget and priorities. If you are just starting out, I would minimize dollars allocated to SAE, but cover yourself up to (and especially including) 1 inch.

The small stuff shows up alot if random aftermarket and specialty retail, strange but more-than-you-would-thing abundant items exist. This is also not counting the building trades.

 

[jeeper46]

In my garage, even Whitworth tools are not obsolete yet.....

 

[Paco Pena]

Even in an import dealership you will see accessories that will require SAE tools.

Paco

 

[crewchief888]

in the const eq world, mostly MM on engines and anything bolted to them, pretty much everything else is std.

my most used sockets are 3/4" and 9/16"

 

[Jim C.]

In my garage, even Whitworth tools are not obsolete yet.....

I may be saying the same thing soon. I've got my eye on a 1952 MG that might be coming my way. During the past year or so, I've been buying used Whitworth tools in anticipation of buying the car. Like I said earlier, it all depends on what you work on.

Jim C.

 

[WWheeler]

Yes SAE is totally obsolete and has been for some time now, but I'll look out for you. I'll give you up to $.05 on the retail dollar for all those 'like-new' condition SAE tools you have laying around that you will never ever have the chance to use again. Better take me up on this offer while you can still get rid of that old junk.

 

[jeeper46]

I may be saying the same thing soon. I've got my eye on a 1952 MG that might be coming my way. During the past year or so, I've been buying used Whitworth tools in anticipation of buying the car. Like I said earlier, it all depends on what you work on.

Jim C.

Back in 1960-'61, my Dad had an MG-TD-I think it was a '54. He bought a cheap set of Dunlap Whitworth sockets for it-I'm still using them on my herd of British motorcycles.

 

[Farmall450]

I've heard that only new cars are needing to go to shops nowadays. It's only a rumor.


That's a lie. You better have both, they don't have to be high end tools, but you'll need them.

Can we close this thread now?

^ It's almost as bad as asking if Sears will last or Cman will return to the US.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

As a tech in school I was wondering if everything in automotive pretty much moved to metric & away from standard? Everything we've seen at school from honda chevy toyota Ford fiat & nissan has all been metric so I was wondering is there any reason why I should buy standard wrenches & sockets? I don't want to buy them to just collect dust in my box

Both sets will be needed in areas where nuts and bolts get a "salt spray dimension conversion".

 

[SoGaTech]

Modern cars, yes. Older cars, motorcycles, lawn equipment have standard fasteners. It all depends where you work and what you work on.

thanks for the advice. I plan on making a career out of turning wrenches at a living.

Wise words from everyone previous. There is so much equipment and products utilizing SAE Standard fasteners still out there that there will always be a need for standard tools. Newer autos are the exception as you pointed out they are entirely metric. However, if you are working on lawn/garden equipment, plumbing or other household projects, you will find a need for them. sometimes even a metric fastener exposed to corrosive road chemicals will go out of spec and you may be saved by using a standard fastener on a corroded bolt head. Remember our tool owners motto, "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". Good luck in your chosen profession

yes! That is great advice and gives me another reason to expand my tool collection.

If your just starting out as a mechanic, I'd recommend investing in Metric and other auto related standards (Torx, ETorx, etc.). For SAE, buy a HF set, then keep a list of the SAE sizes you use most often and consider upgrading only those sizes.

This is great advice! I appreciate the response & advice

I would use most of your money on metric. Save some for used SAE tools. They are a lot easier to find on ebay or flea markets. Unless you purchase 4.5,5.5,6.3 metric 1/4 drive sockets definitely get a 1/4 drive SAE set shallow and deep. I carry a 1/4 inch SAE socket on my metric sets. SK is only manufacturer that I'm aware of that makes 6.3mm sockets. A lot of household items have screws with SAE heads. My small John Deere riding mower has both. My Mitsubishi small tractor uses metric.
I have used a SAE bolt where the hole has been excessively worn.

I appreciate the response and thanks for the advice.

I understand unless an item is totally redesinged it may have SAE bolts and nuts.
Say a Chevy pickup with a 5.7L engine may have some SAE bolts on the motor depending on when its manufactured.
You will find all metric on a German or Japanese vehicle.
If you work for an independent you will need both.

this is something to take into consideration and thanks for the advice.

As a person who sells tools SAE may not be dead but it's definitely on life support. When I first announced on GJ that I would be selling TOPTUL tools I told everybody that I would ONLY be selling metric and got my *** torn out because of it. So, in a moment of stupidity, I brought in some SAE wrench sets. It's likely I'll die before I move these. A lot of what's stated above is true but the problem is that there is so much SAE **** out there that the need for anybody to buy more of it doesn't exist. For the rare times that you'll ever need SAE Harbor Freight or used EBay is the answer. Unless you work for "Restoration Garage" you'll get by fine with HF wrenches and sockets.

that's crazy! I appreciate the advice

Even in an import dealership you will see accessories that will require SAE tools.

Paco

thanks for the feedback

in the const eq world, mostly MM on engines and anything bolted to them, pretty much everything else is std.

my most used sockets are 3/4" and 9/16"

Thanks for the advice and i will definitely have to get some sae. I was just looking for some good advice from more veteran guys with more experience for a new tech but i see some people have to be wise guys.

 

[winlinmac]

Misplace a metric socket, "sometimes" SAE comes to the rescue, depending on the close-to equivalent size we're talking about here

 

[OutsideMachinist]

As a person who sells tools SAE may not be dead but it's definitely on life support. When I first announced on GJ that I would be selling TOPTUL tools I told everybody that I would ONLY be selling metric and got my *** torn out because of it. So, in a moment of stupidity, I brought in some SAE wrench sets. It's likely I'll die before I move these. A lot of what's stated above is true but the problem is that there is so much SAE **** out there that the need for anybody to buy more of it doesn't exist. For the rare times that you'll ever need SAE Harbor Freight or used EBay is the answer. Unless you work for "Restoration Garage" you'll get by fine with HF wrenches and sockets.

I checked them out. Don't know your cost, doesn't matter really I suppose. But, Im not paying 150 for chinese wrenches to 1-1/4''. I can get a proto set for roughly that. Maybe few dollars more.

 

[WittHay]

^ SAE is not obsolete in the non-automotive world. I have recently purchased new Proto combinations and Snap-on angle wrenches in standard sizes. It just that a mid level import brand like TOPTUL isn't associated with tough SAE tools.

To the OP I would recommend a set of combination wrenches and a 3/8 6-point socket set of the GearWrench/ Napa Carlyle quality. You are going to need them at some point either at work or at home.

 

[OutsideMachinist]

I use sae 99% of the stuff I work on. For a young automotive guy id spend all my money on metric and have at least one mid/low range sae set. Get a cheapo one at the very least just to have it.

 

[dnschmidt]

If you can get a Proto set for $150 that's that all inclusive my advice to you is: GO FOR IT. I've had a lot of Proto, most of which I sold to Twersey by the way, none of which impressed me as much as the TOPTUL. But, of course many here don't care about quality and finish as much as COO which in the case of TOPTUL is Taiwan not China for your information. I'm the idiot that listened to fools so I blame only myself for this mistake. Incidentally I've got no problem selling the metric version of this set for the same price.

 

[dooer700]

I started as an auto tech in the late 80's and bought mostly metric tools but I had a small selection of sae for those odd encounters. 10 years ago I changed to heavy fleet maintenance and most everything is sae. It was like starting all over again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Marcm157]

Both sets will be needed in areas where nuts and bolts get a "salt spray dimension conversion".

Exactly!!

 

[OutsideMachinist]

If you can get a Proto set for $150 that's that all inclusive my advice to you is: GO FOR IT. I've had a lot of Proto, most of which I sold to Twersey by the way, none of which impressed me as much as the TOPTUL. But, of course many here don't care about quality and finish as much as COO which in the case of TOPTUL is Taiwan not China for your information. I'm the idiot that listened to fools so I blame only myself for this mistake. Incidentally I've got no problem selling the metric version of this set for the same price.

You are right I dont care about finish. Almost nobody that does industrial work does. Quality I do care about. A proto wrench is better quality than a toptul one no question. I dont know whats involved in your shipping process, your costs, and you have to make some money as well. Im just saying that price range is too close to a better quality set for me, and some other people I imagine.

 

[jd_1138]

I wish every fastener from now on would be metric.

I wouldn't necessarily buy HF for the SAE, stuff, though. You can pick up some decent USA made SAE stuff for cheap.

 

[Marcm157]

Both sets will be needed in areas where nuts and bolts get a "salt spray dimension conversion".

Exactly!!

 

[jdelrizzle]

Nobody's mentioned it but what about hydraulic fittings, I work for a manufacturer of hydraulic equipment and I use nothing but sae tools, jic, sae/orb (o ring to boss), flat face fittings. We only work on hydraulic equipment, no engines no brakes. Only hydraulic and electrical.

 

[dnschmidt]

You have absolutely no basis for you statement that a Proto wrench is better quality than a TOPTUL. It's almost a dead certainty that you've never used a TOPTUL wrench and I've sold A LOT of wrench sets to the members of GJ and not one has ever had the slightest complaint about them. You can have whatever bias you wish (hey, it's America) but just like Trump you've not allowed to have you're own version of facts.

 

[joe_padavano]

In my garage, even Whitworth tools are not obsolete yet.....