Is that the right way round ?

[Canada Bob]

Hopefully this helps...



How do I figure out if the box was wired Bonded or Unbonded ?
We are out in the sticks, the nearest town with an Electrician is 28 miles away

Bob.
​

 

[Canada Bob]

This seems to be the Transfer Panel.

SIEMENS CANADA EQG630D 30A 6/12-Circuits Generator Panel, 3-Pole 1-Phase

www.gescan.com

​

 

[wyliesdiesels]

well it wouldve been good to post those pics in the beginning. that panel has a 3 pole breaker so you can switch the neutral. so that panel can be fed from either a bonded or unbonded generator depending on how you connect the neutral.

if the neutral from the inlet is wired to the breaker, then you can use a bonded generator. if instead its wired to the neutral lug on the bus, then you need to use an unbonded generator.

youll have to open that up and see how they wired the neutral from the inlet to that panel.

can you take the cover off and post some pics?

 

[Canada Bob]

Not sure if these help, I don't really know what I'm looking for, and it's a rats nest in the main box



What is it in particular that I should be looking for ?​

 

[SuburbanDad]

Bonded vs floating neutral video

This was the type of explanation I needed. Putting here in case it benefits others in the future.

In the final part of the video, he measures current flowing through the ground when bonded at both the generator and panel. I guess this is the reason you'd want to convert to floating for attachment to home.

 

[dave*99]

It appears your transfer switch has 6 branch breakers that are 15A single pole. So your generator will only power loads on those 6 breakers.

The transfer switch is set up to bring in 30A @ 240V from the generator. But the only connectable loads are those on the 6 breakers. Does that meet your needs?

 

[Canada Bob]

Hello Dave,

The 6 breakers are well enough for what I need, mainly the lights in the house {all LED's} the Modem and the PC to keep me online and the 200w TV. I don't need the Fridge or anything else running. The power only goes off in Winter round here, when you can almost guarantee/ that it would be at least -10C / 14f or worse than that. So if the power quits folks just put what's in the fridge in a plastic box and put it out on the deck, with a brick on top so the local raccoons or foxes can't get at it. But, as a self employed contractor the most important thing for me is that folks can contact me, so being able to stay online and to charge my phone up is more important than what's in the fridge.
I won't need 240v at all, so I guess 30A is all I need.

I appreciate the time that all of you guys have afforded me, thanks to that I've a better understanding now than I had just a couple of days ago, I'd never make it as an electrician, you guys are streets ahead of me, so the input and explanations you guys ave provided are valued and appreciated.

Bob.

 

[dave*99]

Since you stress the need for your electronics to keep running, you should look at an inverter generator. And probably less than 8000W. Inverter generators provide clean sine wave power. Less harmonic distortion in the generated power and much friendlier for electronics

 

[Canada Bob]

well it wouldve been good to post those pics in the beginning. that panel has a 3 pole breaker so you can switch the neutral. so that panel can be fed from either a bonded or unbonded generator depending on how you connect the neutral.

if the neutral from the inlet is wired to the breaker, then you can use a bonded generator. if instead its wired to the neutral lug on the bus, then you need to use an unbonded generator.

youll have to open that up and see how they wired the neutral from the inlet to that panel.

can you take the cover off and post some pics?

Hi, fair comment about what would have helped, apologises for that but electrics isn't my field and I'm very wary about going anywhere near what I don't understand. To be honest I wouldn't be able to recognise what the inlet is wired to. From what I've been looking today it seems like most if not all inverter generators {inverter to protect my PC and TV} are floating neutral, so I guess I need to check if the inlet is wired to the neutral lug on the bus. I guess it's a photo of the transfer box that I need to take ?

Thanks for taking the time, it's appreciated.

Bob.

 

[Canada Bob]

Since you stress the need for your electronics to keep running, you should look at an inverter generator. And probably less than 8000W. Inverter generators provide clean sine wave power. Less harmonic distortion in the generated power and much friendlier for electronics

Hi Dave, yea, the guys at the Dealership in Halifax were explaining how important it is to get a generator with an inverter, I don't want to fry my PC or the TV. I get the thing about THD being 3% or less now and how that protects electronics. Looks like all I need is 4500w max to run lights and comms, that brings the price down considerably. Add to that a smaller unit would be helpful / easier to lug about on the building sites when needed.

Bob.

 

[Canada Bob]

Photos of Transfer Box.

​

 

[dave*99]

Edited for clarity.

The ********* jumper in the top left means neutral and ground should be bonded at the generator.
Or remove it if your generator has a floating neutral. If you do that, the neutrals from the generator and main panel would need to be moved off the breakers and onto the lugs.
And there are live wires in there.
Good time to call an electrician. Be safe.

 

[Canada Bob]

Hi Dave, when you say remove it, is it live ? should I throw the big switch on the main panel before I go anywhere near that jumper ?
Is that all I'd need to do to make it compatible with a floating neutral generator ?

Bob.

 

[dave*99]

Moved info into post 52

 

[Canada Bob]

Bonded vs floating neutral video

This was the type of explanation I needed. Putting here in case it benefits others in the future.

In the final part of the video, he measures current flowing through the ground when bonded at both the generator and panel. I guess this is the reason you'd want to convert to floating for attachment to home.

Hi, Thanks for the video link, that guy really knows his stuff, having said that I most (if not all) licenced tradesmen do, in their own field, it's just that I'm not that smart, my skills are in my hands and my eye, I know instinctively how to work with wood, but not with copper wires.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The ********* jumper in the top left means neutral and ground should be bonded at the generator.
Or remove it if your generator has a floating neutral.

he would also need to move the neutrals off the breakers and onto the bus lugs...

I don’t think you can just remove it. The neutrals from the generator and main panel would need to be moved off the breakers and onto the lugs.
And there are live wires in there.
Good time to call an electrician. Be safe.

correct

 

[Canada Bob]

I don’t think you can just remove it. The neutrals from the generator and main panel would need to be moved off the breakers and onto the lugs.
And there are live wires in there.
Good time to call an electrician. Be safe.

Thanks again Dave, as mentioned I don't even go near wires that might be live, as for calling in an electrician I'll do that once we get Christmas over, one of the guys that I've worked on sites with is an electrician, but I don't want to bother him until the beginning on the New Year, I'll drop him an email so that he will be able to phase me in

That gives me time to consider the size of generator to get, looks like 4500w would be enough for what I need, and then to ponder what to do about the 4 pin socket on the outside wall seeing as how most of the small to medium sized Champion generators are 3 pin. It's a "where does it stop" kind of thing, if I go with a 3 pin generator would I need to install a 3 pin box on the outside wall, or get one of those "3 to 4 pin adaptors" is that a bad or dangerous way to go ?

As you say, I'll bring a 'leccy in to do whatever needs to be done, it's just a matter of me deciding / figuring out what my options are.

It would be nice to have a small generator, less fuel and as the guy in the Dealership mentioned less noise and light enough for me to tailgate on sites too, not to mention they are half the price I was thinking of paying for the Generac 8000, things to think about there.

Can't Thank you guys enough for the time and guidance and insights you have all given me, it's decent of you all, and it's appreciated.

Bob.

 

[dave*99]

The 3 wire vs 4 wire you mention is the difference between a generator that provides 120v. Or 120/240.
The 3 wire champion inverter unit makes 120v at 30A and it can be connected since you don’t have any 240v loads. Your electrician can help. You need the right combination of plugs receptacles and cables.

 

[Canada Bob]

Ah !!! well, that's one fence jumped, thanks for the clarification, much appreciated.

Bob.

 

[SuburbanDad]

Hi, Thanks for the video link, that guy really knows his stuff, having said that I most (if not all) licenced tradesmen do, in their own field, it's just that I'm not that smart, my skills are in my hands and my eye, I know instinctively how to work with wood, but not with copper wires.

I'm with you. More of a mechanical mind, and even then, not all intuitive. Lots of education and trial and error.

To me, electricity and magnetism isn't intuitive. You can think you understand it, until someone asks why. Quickly get to a point where no one can answer. ("Why do opposite charges attract?" "Why are there magnetic fields?" "Why does current want to return to its source?" "What is gravity?" "Why do I care if I can plug **** in and it turns on?" "How many licks to the center of a tootsie pop?" The world many never know.)