To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Is there a freeze proof pipe I could burry?

Don1357

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
948
Location
Palmer, AK
My well head is across the yard about 80 feet away. It would be fantastic if I could burry a pipe so I could have an out let right next to the house without having to drag and step over the same hose I drag and step on every single year. The bit of a problem is that temperatures here can hit -25f, and with a frost line of 4 1/2' I'm not digging that trench.

Is there something I can use that will shrug off freezing? Trying to google this keeps showing how to stop pipes from freezing in the first place or the ones that may survive a few freeze episodes.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
D

Don1357

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
948
Location
Palmer, AK
I'm hoping for a pipe I can burry fairly shallow that will just resist breaking when frozen. This is for a line 100% outside of the house, from the well head to the porch of the house.
 

Tools4Me

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
546
Regular PEX pipe can handle the expansion and contraction of freeze thaw cycles very well, but the fittings or connections themselves can be another story. If you can figure out a way to connect PEX at your well deep enough underground to where the end connection will never freeze and then run the pex in a shallow trench or in a shallow conduit all the way to your home you might be able to create a workable setup that's reliable. I'm not sure I fully understand your application though, because if the water in that shallow PEX pipe does freeze it wouldn't damage the PEX pipe but it would prevent the pipe from being used again for water until the ice inside melts.

Here are a couple links that discuss freeze cycles and PEX pipe-

If you want to make a setup that can be used at any time year round for running water you will probably instead want to look into a setup that allows for gravity drainage of the water from the pipe leading to your house after each use.The general principal the following link shows is where my mind would be going if I was wanting to achieve the goal you want.


Something where you turn the water on at the well and it begins flowing through the pipe to the home, but when you're done you turn the water back off at the well and then open a valve buried maybe a foot or so underground (it just has to be the lowest point in the system) and let the water drain out of the pipe by gravity into a small dry well so the pipe is left completely empty and ready for the next time you need water at the home. You could improve on the basic design by adding a handle for the gravity drain that extends above ground (maybe something similar to a water meter shutoff key handle) so you can easily open and close the drain valve from above ground. Depending on how complicated you want to get, that drain valve could even be operated from within the home with a little 12vdc power and a solenoid valve.

You might want to look into how frostproof yard hydrants work as well. They protect themselves using the same principal of letting the water drain out of the hydrant as soon as the water flow is turned off. That might get some workable ideas flowing for you.

There are all sorts of ways you could go with this depending on your specific needs and situation, but if you're not emptying the water from the line after each use you will always be dead in the water whenever there is frozen water in the pipe.
 

Attachments

  • gravity drain.JPG
    gravity drain.JPG
    79.7 KB · Views: 32

Bondo

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
2,551
Location
Greenfield, Maine
I'm hoping for a pipe I can burry fairly shallow that will just resist breaking when frozen. This is for a line 100% outside of the house, from the well head to the porch of the house.
Ayuh,.... Why not just put a frost-proof faucet on the house,..??..??
 

gmcgeo

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
3,701
There are ways around not putting it under frost line, however you will spend more time and money. I would see if you can rent a track hoe and just dig the trench.
 

Walkers

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,912
Location
Cave Creek Az
The pipes are pre frozen when you buy them, it is the contents of the pipe that freeze and cause problems. If you can’t bury it deep enough (I know nothing of the frost line in Alaska) then put on a heater wire.
 

jack stand

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,395
Location
Lakes Region Maine
If he has decent soils, a "Ditch Witch" would make it a half day job with very little "restoration". Just make sure you tell the rental center how deep it needs to dig.
 

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,889
Location
Fargo, ND
Bury some PEX, slop it down hill one direction or the other. Dig a small pit at the low end and set a box to contain the pipe and a drain valve.
https://www.menards.com/main/outdoo...300-c-8670.htm?tid=9169161125389604960&ipos=9
At the house end, connect through a sill **** with a short hose you can remove to drain the sill **** in the fall. Open the drain in the pit, grab an air tank and blow out the line, plus drain other other end of the line too.
 
Last edited:

olytdi

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
2,202
Location
Olympia, Washington
Yeah, there's no magic pipe that allows you to skip the bury below frost line thing. You just have to dig deep enough, put the pipe in with a proper draining hydrant attached to surface, and there you go.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dfiler2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
2,860
Location
NW Minnesota
As mentioned above PEX will work fine and will not burst when it freezes, you do need to be careful with having valves or other fittings full of water when they freeze as they will break. I have PEX in place that has frozen year after year with no problems once it thaws.
 

Skooterj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
PEX would resist bursting when frozen, but would still freeze and you would be without water until it warmed enough to melt. Even heated pipe would probably freeze give -25F degrees. The only real solution is to bury the line below the frost line.
 

Bretny

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
3,918
Location
Dutchess county NY
Just drain and blow out the pipe when it's going to be freezing. I have seasonal water at my garage. It's been there for about 5yrs. Each fall I just drain it and blow it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: csp

Skooterj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Okay, so I read your post again. Are you wanting to add an external hose bib, but run it directly from the well head? Does the well head already run to the house? If so, T off the house supply after the pressure tank, dig a short trench and hole and install a frost free hydrant next to the porch. Or run a frost free hose bib through the house wall next to the porch.
 

marak

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
339
Location
Anchorage, Alaska
My well head is across the yard about 80 feet away. It would be fantastic if I could burry a pipe so I could have an out let right next to the house without having to drag and step over the same hose I drag and step on every single year. The bit of a problem is that temperatures here can hit -25f, and with a frost line of 4 1/2' I'm not digging that trench.

Is there something I can use that will shrug off freezing? Trying to google this keeps showing how to stop pipes from freezing in the first place or the ones that may survive a few freeze episodes.
I'm curious how you determined the frost depth to be 4 1/2 ft. In Anchorage, unprotected water lines should be buried 10 ft. Four and a half foot seems pretty shallow to me. If it were me I would double and triple check this depth.

There is arctic pipe available to help reduce burial depth. Also an option is heat trace wire.

Talk to the folks at Polar Supply in Anchorage and they can likely assist with any products available locally.

Edit: After rereading your post, I have some questions. Is this new line just being used during 'nice' weather, and not during the winter. Is the point to eliminate a garden hose strung across the yard? Main question: will liquid water be removed from the line during winter half of the year.
 
Last edited:

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,889
Location
Fargo, ND
You guys seem to miss that if he puts in a frost proof fauct he needs to dig down below the frost line, something he doesn't want to do. Also a frost proof faucet doesn't do anything for the water line.
 

marak

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
339
Location
Anchorage, Alaska
You guys seem to miss that if he puts in a frost proof fauct he needs to dig down below the frost line, something he doesn't want to do. Also a frost proof faucet doesn't do anything for the water line.
And as I mentioned in post #17, frost depth is very deep in Alaska, about 10ft!
 

K13

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
St. Albert, AB Canada
I'm curious how you determined the frost depth to be 4 1/2 ft. In Anchorage, unprotected water lines should be buried 10 ft. Four and a half foot seems pretty shallow to me. If it were me I would double and triple check this depth.
This. We are at 8 ft here and are quite a bit south of Alaska.
 

Sumboodie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
10,957
Location
AK
My well head is across the yard about 80 feet away. It would be fantastic if I could burry a pipe so I could have an out let right next to the house without having to drag and step over the same hose I drag and step on every single year. The bit of a problem is that temperatures here can hit -25f, and with a frost line of 4 1/2' I'm not digging that trench.

Is there something I can use that will shrug off freezing? Trying to google this keeps showing how to stop pipes from freezing in the first place or the ones that may survive a few freeze episodes.

Burial depth for water lines in Palmer is 10 feet.

Only way to not dig that deep is to insulate the pipe and/or add heat trace. Or plumb it that it can be blown out in the fall.

Why not stub out a water faucet from the house?
 

marak

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
339
Location
Anchorage, Alaska
About 6 or 8 years ago the high temp over a two month or so period was -20*F. Pretty chilly that winter! If a pex line with water in it froze, it would take more than a few days for it to thaw.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom