Is there a tool to turn this valve?

[ajchien]

Bathtub faucet hot and cold valves on either side... I presume I can just put a screwdriver in the slot, but I wasnt sure if there was a more appropriate tool or handle.

question 2: it's a standard Moen cartridge faucet. Do I need a Moen cartridge puller to get it out, or do you guys think I can I just pull with a pair of pliers?

 

[shocksandstrutz]

do you have a drip, or what is the reason for taking it out???
low water pressure?
hot or cold not working properly?

im sure you know this, but make sure you turn the water off and open up all faucets and such before tackling this job, becuse if you dont you are going to get a ton of water flowing back behind your wall.

also, if you are replacing the cylindrical piece, or the seals on it, that is all inside the middle. take the handel screw out, take off the handle, and then you will slide the "cartridge out"

like i said above, what are you trying to accomplish by turning the valves with a screwdriver. i was just babbling above so if it doesn;t pertain, please ignore

 

[ajchien]

Ok, to elaborate. I have a drip. The bathroom is in a condo - so it's really really really inconvenient to turn off the water supply to the whole building. I seem to be lucky, as these appear to be water shut off valves going directly into the faucet. Therefore, I figure I should be able to turn the valves to the off position - and then pull the cartridge. It seems to be a standard cartridge, not the Positemp or the Moentrol variants.

Im wondering if these valves have a special tool or a handle (that was taken off) that goes onto them. Smooth cynlinder, hole in center, with 2 slots 180 degrees apart. I was at a Lowe's today and I didnt find any valves with handles that looked like these. Also, Im wondering what experiences there are with pulling the cartridge. On the internet, there are many tales of how difficult it is to pull a Moen cartridge, that Im wondering if I should splurge for a once time use Moen cartridge puller tool.

 

[shocksandstrutz]

im assuming those are shut off valve too then, so in theory once you turn those, your water should be off.....hopefully (which i would double check before doing any other work) but you should be able to turn those and turn the water off.

then once the screw and handle are removed, i used a pair of channel locks to pull mine out. i had the same problem as you, had a drip that was contstantly running and leaking all over the place. turned my water off, took of the retaining ring, pulled that cylinder out and replaced the side rubber gaskets and o-rings on it.....has been going perfect for 4 years now. my neighbor had the same problem and i just replaced the whole cylinder for her. it was easier and faster.

let me know if that helps you, its a pain i the @$$ the first time, but once you do it one time, youll completely understand how it all goes

 

[jeremy v]

If it was me I would just use a larger flathead screwdriver for the two valves. The notches look plenty deep and strong, so unless the valves are completely stuck they should turn pretty easily and be fine.

Something to note is that the two valves you have look like they are functionally the same internally as a regular sink type wall shutoff, so there is probably a rubber seal in there that needs to be in good condition for the water to shut off fully. One thing I have found is that valves of that type that spend multiple years in the open position more often than not do not seal fully when they are closed temporarily because the rubber seal is cracked or falling apart in one way or another, so before shutting off the valves and pulling the center cartridge I would cut up a 2 liter soda bottle or something equivalent and form a makeshift funnel under the mixing valve so any water that slowly leaks out when you remove the center cartridge (from the shut-offs not fully turning off the water) just drains out and down into the tub instead of down the wall.

Also I would only turn the two shut-offs just enough to stop the flow of water and nothing more. If you keep turning them until they are snugly in the off position you could rip apart the rubber seal (if it is aged) and it could fall right off internally and the shutoff will no longer do anything without you turning the main water feed off and replacing the shutoff seal.

If your condo has its' own hot water heater in your unit you can at the very least turn off the water at the hot water heater and drain the hot water side of the shower valve before taking everything apart. Then leave the hot water shutoff valve on the shower alone and just turn off the cold water one to minimize the chance of possibly messing up the hot shut-off's internal seal.

 

[shocksandstrutz]

very well put, i was about to mention the same thing, you definitly dont want water running down in the wall, itll just sit there and create mold.

 

[CWP1616L]

I got one of those valves too and I need to figure out how to lube it. It's getting hard to push and pull.

 

[MrMark]

good advice on those shut-offs, make sure they do work before relying on them. You are lucky to have them. That is an option on the Moen valve. Just use the appropriate screwdriver. There is no special tool I am aware of.

Yes, you need the tool to pull the cartridge without wrecking something; they are tight and no doubt corroded/calcified. I have one and it is something you just have to bite the bullet on.

 

[skulldrinker]

I didn't think it was code to have valves in the wall like that. If the cartridge is not stuck in there you can use channel locks. Grab the outer sides of the stem and try to twist it to free it up. Some times a needle nose pleirs is helpful. Or get the puller at Home depot for about $15. While you're there pick up some plumbers grease and lube up the new cartridge a little more than they provide. Plumbers grease is non toxic kinda looks like Vaseline.

 

[Pumpman1968]

I just looked ebay....if you know what cartridge it is, there are sellers that include the tool with the new cartridge

 

[BD1]

Use a screwdriver in the slot that fits well. The slot indicates valve position, horizontal[ as shown is open] a quarter turn to vertical is closed. You can pull open to check for a positive shutoff.
Once you remove the handle you should see a ''U'' shape clip that actually holds the cartridge in place. Cover drain and remove clip. Guarantee the clip will go down drain.
The replacement cartridge is supplied with a plastic tool
to aid in removal. If it is real stubborn you may have to purchase a moen cartridge remover tool.
Oh, if you want to be safe, locate the riser shutoff valves for your condo which will also serve above and below. Let building management know what you are doing before hand in case a problem occurs. Nothing like trying to locate valves as the lower unit is becoming swimming pool.

 

[Ed ke6bnl]

Moen will answer your questions and probably send you a free insert they did for me on faucets no questions asked great company

 

[Higgins]

The little horse shoe clip is made of soft copper or brass and may brake off one of the little tangs at the end of the clip. I would suggest purchasing a new clip when you purchase the cartridge!

 

[Todd.Brock]

I have this same faucet. If I turn to the hot water side, the water all but stops flowing. Is this something to be repaired with the cartridge? I have the exact same set up.

 

[shocksandstrutz]

I have this same faucet. If I turn to the hot water side, the water all but stops flowing. Is this something to be repaired with the cartridge? I have the exact same set up.

could be one of your gaskets slipped and is now blocking the water feed......this operates on a rotating motion to supply water, the different way you turn the different hot/cold ratio to come out the head. id pull the cartridge and replace it, it should work just fine then. also calcium builds up on them and rots the rubber gaskets.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Cool. Thanks for the help. Sorry to hi jack the thread!

 

[jthandyman]

I may be wrong but those screws you are looking at are the anti scold adjustments or also called pressure adjustments for this type of valve. That might be what they called a moen positemp valve. yes you should be able to remove the cartridge with pliers just make sure you remove reteining clip first. And if after installation hot and cold are reversed just rotate the cartridge 90 degrees.

 

[jthandyman]

I have this same faucet. If I turn to the hot water side, the water all but stops flowing. Is this something to be repaired with the cartridge? I have the exact same set up.

To Answer your question yes I believe the hot side of the valve could get a build up of mineral deposits, So a short answer is yes cleaing the cartridge or replacement should fix your problem or adjusting the pressure for the hot side may increase hot water.

do you get mineral deposits around your faucets in the house? If so this is your issue with cartridge.

Thanks

 

[rlitman]

The little horse shoe clip is made of soft copper or brass and may brake off one of the little tangs at the end of the clip. I would suggest purchasing a new clip when you purchase the cartridge!

Some cartridge kits come with this, the cheaper ones do not.
Either way, get the plastic cartridge. The brass ones do not last as long.
Oh, and generally, the actual Moen cartridges may have better formed sealing surfaces than the aftermarket ones, and the Moen ones come with silicone grease pre-applied. The aftermarket ones must be greased (be sure to use only silicone grease).

There is no special tool to remove the cartridge. Just pull. The "tool" is to align it during installation.

 

[jthandyman]

Some cartridge kits come with this, the cheaper ones do not.
Either way, get the plastic cartridge. The brass ones do not last as long.
Oh, and generally, the actual Moen cartridges may have better formed sealing surfaces than the aftermarket ones, and the Moen ones come with silicone grease pre-applied. The aftermarket ones must be greased (be sure to use only silicone grease).

There is no special tool to remove the cartridge. Just pull. The "tool" is to align it during installation.

There is a cartridge puller made by moen. and the little plastic align tool is helpfull but also not necessary. see pic below. This tool normally is not needed. All the above info is extremely helpfully and correct

Thanks

 

[ajchien]

Well, I f*ed that up.

I used a 3/8 t-handle on a 3/8 slotted bit which fit perfectly in the slot.

Turning the cold valve off was not a problem. Took 3 turns before it shut off.

Turning the hot valve off became a problem. I was able to turn it 1/2 turn and then it got tight. Really tight. Still not off, but really tight. And then... Wonk... The slot on the valve deformed and squashed. I've essentially stripped the head. It now looks like a bow-tie clutch driver rather than a slot.

Any ideas? I was considering using a Dremel to cut the slots deeper, but thought better of it. Im thinking I need to throw in the towel and consider turning off the water to the building instead. unfortunately for me, the condo only has 2 "approved" plumbers able to shut off the water to the building.

 

[skulldrinker]

can you get a vise grip in there ?

or change it out while the water is on.

Or at least now you just have to shut the hot water off.

 

[ajchien]

can you get a vise grip in there ?

or change it out while the water is on.

Or at least now you just have to shut the hot water off.

I don't seem to have the room to get a vise grip in there.

Change it out with the water on? Well, I presume a lot of the water would be coming out of the spout, but some coming out of where the handle/valve would be. Ive never swapped out any plumbing stuff before without having the water off. That sounds like a potential mess. Anyone have real life experience?

 

[Crusty Nut]

does your condo have its own water heater? just turn off the hot at the valve there.

 

[BD1]

I though that yours was same as my older model. The slot in the screw identifies open horizontal and vertical closed. Mine was a QUARTER TURN ONLY. Can you turn the screw vertical ? Try it ? Hopefully it will close and stop flow.

 

[ajchien]

Lol. No, my condo dosent have it's own water heater. The water heater is for the whole building. Apparently, one Person messed it up a few years back, and now the condo association only allows certain plumbers the "access" to work on the building and the heater room. It's kind of an ordeal anytime someone has to do plumbing in their unit - water gets shut off for a half or whole day, and even though people are notified a week in advance, the poor plumbers get nasty comments from the residents every time someone needs it turned it off. Replacing a cartridge seems so minor compared to shutting off the water.

As for the quarter turn. No go. THe cold water didn't turn off until about 3 turns. The hot water I got a half turn or so before it got stuck. And yes, I did check and it wasn't quarter turn.

 

[MrMark]

that *****. Those shut-offs and similar angle stops never seem to work. They need to be "exercised" once in a while but they never are. If it's any consolation I've never had a shut off of that type work for me when I needed it. They can't take sitting open with all that hard water.

I would probably grind a slot in it with a dremel instead of dealing with the building plumbers. Back it off and then work it some, don't keep forcing it shut. Try to crunch up all that calcification on the seat.

It looks like you could get the small vise grip going straight in on that, no?

 

[Todd.Brock]

Don't feel too bad, my cold water valve had the same issue as your hot water valve. Mine is behind an acrylic tub insert. The hot side is exposed, but the cold side is behind the acrylic. There was a little slot cut in it from when it was installed. I needed to get a slotted screwdriver in there to turn off the cold but it wouldn't fit. It was already stripped. I used a large drill bit at a slow speed to clear out the offending material. I nicked the top of the valve screw and made it worse!! To beat all, I got a bigger screwdriver and was able to turn the valve 1/2 turn before it froze up. I said screw it and put it all back together. The hot side will just flow slower than the cold side until I can shut off the house water and drain the lines... Been this way for eight years , your post inspired me to fix it. That bathroom was used 4x a year from visitors until my girls were born. Now it's used for bath time. We do have hard water and am sure that is the problem.