Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?

[Mickey O]

When communist china companies copy a product, (rip off the design) do they have to pay patent royalties, or anything of that matter?

They're not supposed to rip off patented products but they do it all the time, just like they sell weapons to enemy countries that are in turn used to kill our service men and women. China does not give a **** about this country other than what they can squeeze out of it. What you are saving in price buy buying Chinese products you are paying for in gas and other commodities as well as getting an inferior product.

I read an article a while back about an American medical device company that was put out of business because China ripped off their product and under-cut them.

I'd only buy Chinese products when it's the only thing available, I'll gladly pay twice. 3x, 4x the price or more for Made in the USA. What China is doing is sending over **** that will end in our land fills, harms our pets and children.

Do a google search for info on that fine quality drywall they sent over here.

 

[xroad]

In the 1990's, China and Russia do about 2 billion a year in weapons purchase. Then the Chinese would copy the Russian stuff and start selling it in the weapons market. The Russian used to put up with it because they are making some money. Then, a few years ago, it started to really hurt. The Russian put a stop to it and now they won't sell anything to the Chinese. The SU-27 was copied. But they have problem with engine production. Engine technology is another level more difficult than the fighter air frame. SO, they want to buy the SU-33 (same as the SU-27 but mod for Naval carriers take off and landing). First it was a whole $hit load but then, the Chinese wanted just TWO! The Russian said ..... "you think we just fell off a turnip truck?" (or something to that effect) and then killed the whole deal.

China is shopping for engines. If they manage to find someone to sell it to them, the Chinese SU will be on the free market. Yes, the quality is not as good as the real deal, but there will be buyers, just like the crappy tools, there are buyers.

Another example ... Cisco produce telecom equipments. A Chinese company, government owned, copied one of their product exactly down to the logo. We band it for sale in the US. However, the US still do business with this company.

 

[ImportTuner]

what is a decent price for you ? Ultimate Garage has them for 22$ ea.

Just looked at them .. I need 1/4" to 1/4" industrial (otherwise known a M connectors) .. any leads?

 

[Monte]

Benz on top, "Geely" from China below...

"Geely" vs. Rolls Royce

more

 

[JohnFreeman]

They're thieves...just industrial thieves. The do a tremendous business in industrial espionage so as to steal our intellectual capital.

I know it may be ******* into the wind but I'd rather buy used American than new Chicom.

 

[ZRX61]

the sad part is they are buying all our old equipment from the 50,60,70s and when they figure out how to use it all properly, the usa is fucked. Ive noticed the only things we commonly produce anymore are made of plastic or composites.

It's already too late. The knowledge is being lost & the only hope now is they copy the USA by plunging their economy into the crapper.
Maybe the US needs to tell em "those loan bonds are now worthless, tough *****"

 

[Art From De Leon]

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

**** the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of **** heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.

 

[ZRX61]

They're thieves...just industrial thieves. The do a tremendous business in industrial espionage so as to steal our intellectual capital.

They don't need to steal it, it's being given to them for free

 

[chrislehr]

NOT MUCH.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/04/24/how-to-identify-fake-chicken-eggs/#more-802

 

[rpsurfr]

If it is any thing like the chinese cut off over my laundry tub that blew apart with 50psi water to it you can keep it
No one ever went broke underestimating the taste ( cheapness) of the American public
We have done ourselves in and we sold out of little money

 

[HandyManny]

Same here but I see that as a loosing battle. Not until all the countries in the world raise to the living standard of where we are. There is always going to be a Vietnam, or Pakistan, or some country with cheaper labor than China to take their place. We can built quality goods but only can target a very small market. Majority of the North American buyers will buy the Craftsman as they are today, or worst.

The vietnam's and pakistan's would not be a concern to us if corporation were given tax incentives to keep production here. Too bad our government gives these corporations incentives to move production overseas.

 

[xroad]

The vietnam's and pakistan's would not be a concern to us if corporation were given tax incentives to keep production here. Too bad our government gives these corporations incentives to move production overseas.

Agree again. Too bad many of my friends votes down the party line. I get very pissed at them, both the left wing nut jobs and the right wing nut jobs. They both vote for their party and feel that their party can do no wrong. Yet, they have no understanding of the policies implemented by the politicians both on the right and the left. I keep telling them, this is not a football game where you cheer for your home team. You have to look at the individual issues and decide if you agree with it or not.

I really think all this is stem from the poor education of our citizens. Government needs stupid people to manipulate in order to stay in power. Smart people don't let themselves get snow by smooth talking politicians.

 

[Snappy]

.........

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

**** the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of **** heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.

 

[airdale]

They don't need to steal it, it's being given to them for free

That's been a concern since 1980 when they were granted "Most Favored Nation" trading status. In 2000 it was made permanent. As stated, we give them our most precious resource - technology. Western companies set up factories, production lines, even ship sophisticated production machinery over if what they have isn't good enough. I think it would be naive to think all that technology stays within the confines of the western companies walls. We are teaching them how to make things better. Yeah a lot of stuff is junk, but even that is changing - look at the Harbor Freight Pass/Fail thread. Lots of "passes" being given out. It's like an equilibrium, always seeking the market balance between price vs. quality for the average consumer.

 

[oldtools]

Actually it is part of Chinese culture. Without going into great detail, when I was in college I studied chinese culture and history. It is not a culture that puts much value in innovation or free thinking. The do value repitition and and such. They as a culture have not been innovators but have been copiers. The reason you see them basicaly copy everything is in a big part......cultural. You may see quality increase but the chinese will never be creators of many products or ideas.

You need to go back to a non-racist and non-bias school. When I was in college, I took a world art history course. The whole semester, the professor only talk about European and American arts. He spent the last 30 minutes on Asian arts (India/Chinese/Iiddle Eastern/etc......). These kind of arrogant attitude is why everybody hate the American. American complacency and arrogance will be its Achille heel. Your beloved Iphone touchscreen is invented by a Taiwanese company. If you could set aside your racism and learn about Chinese history (without bias), you will be surprise. You will also learn that American don't invent everything and they do copy others. Attached ia a Chinese fighter plane that they developed. You tell me that they can make a fighter plane, but yet they can not make tools?

 

[xroad]

Well said, Oldtools.

When I walked into Walmart, I did not see any one holding guns to our head forcing us to buy Chinese crappy products. All the crappy tools from China, you think they would be in business if the entire North America finds them to be crappy? They make what we ask them to make.

 

[xroad]

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety ....

Of course they have the concept of safety, they (not the Chinese engineers) just choose to not put it in because it saves cost. The car companies that manufacture cars in China ... Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc. makes the same model that they sell in North America for the Chinese market. Safety standard and emission standard are not the latest spec. Why? because the someone wrote the spec that way. Again, it is economically driven. They will make whatever gets them the most profit. Right now, it is crappy tools because we have the entire North America buying it and no one is competing with them to make it. Give them, or anybody, the right money, they'll produce whatever you want.

BTW, those cheap *** car "clones" are Chinese market cars. You will never find them here in North America. They will not pass emission and crash test. Give them a few years, when the time is right, they will come here and compete with Toyota and Honda, etc. OR, maybe a Chinese made Honda, Toyota ....

 

[HandyManny]

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

**** the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of **** heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.

Really? You think so? Do you recall a certain tire manufacturer who was exposed some time in 1999 or 2000 for it's lack of integrity and unconcern with safety and ethics? Bridgestone/Firestone! As I recall all those defective tires were made here in the USA. I can find all kinds of ethical issues and lack of safety issues from American owned and operated companies on our soil, but there just isn't room here on this forum to list. Funny how a cow never smells it's own ****. And that not an insult, that just a way of saying before we criticise other countries we should make sure our stuff is in order.

China is no friend of mine. But, by the way, we are the only country to have ever used weapons of mass destruction, did it twice. The world knows that, that's why the Chinese don't mess with us.

 

[xroad]

I don't need other countries to love my country. I just want them to fear us from a military perspective.

 

[ZRX61]

Attached ia a Chinese fighter plane that they developed. You tell me that they can make a fighter plane, but yet they can not make tools?

That only flies because the Chinese copied Rolls Royce engine designs...

NEXT!

 

[ZRX61]

Really? You think so? Do you recall a certain tire manufacturer who was exposed some time in 1999 or 2000 for it's lack of integrity and unconcern with safety and ethics? Bridgestone/Firestone! As I recall all those defective tires were made here in the USA.

That was mostly caused by running truck tires at car pressures to give the drivers a softer ride...

 

[xroad]

That only flies because the Chinese copied Rolls Royce engine designs...

NEXT!

They copied the entire SU27 but cannot get the engine right. None the less, it takes skill to copy a fighter. So it is a little different from "they don't know how to make tools".

 

[48548]

Reading this stuff really makes me sad about the state our country is in.... I try to never go to walmart and when I do it is to buy mobil 1 oil. I will have to think twice before I by something from china, but what about taiwan? Japan? I am going to have to make my TV last as it was an american made Pioneer. This really depressed me because I guess I didn't know or want to think about companies reverse engineering our stuff.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

I would rather purchase something made in Japan than china, If I cannot purchase a TV made in America, then I'll look to Japan next. Mexico is on my sh*t list too. Too bad since a bunch of MSD ignition products are made in mexico. At least the **** Cepek tires I ordered are made in the USA... If not I'll be pissed, as I emailed the company asking where they are made... otherwise I wouldn't have purchased them.

 

[HandyManny]

That was mostly caused by running truck tires at car pressures to give the drivers a softer ride...

As I recall there was a lot more to it than that. Had also to do with Ford and what they were specifying in the tires. More of a design flaw. Either way someone at Ford or Firestone wasn't so concerned with safety. And we critcise the Chinese for this type of stuff.

 

[HandyManny]

I would rather purchase something made in Japan than china, If I cannot purchase a TV made in America, then I'll look to Japan next. Mexico is on my sh*t list too. Too bad since a bunch of MSD ignition products are made in mexico. At least the **** Cepek tires I ordered are made in the USA... If not I'll be pissed, as I emailed the company asking where they are made... otherwise I wouldn't have purchased them.

The Japanese make some pretty darn good stuff. As a culture they are not very tolerant of slackers.

 

[JohnFreeman]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

 

[ZRX61]

As I recall there was a lot more to it than that. Had also to do with Ford and what they were specifying in the tires. More of a design flaw. Either way someone at Ford or Firestone wasn't so concerned with safety. And we critcise the Chinese for this type of stuff.

True, but the tire psi called for was lower than for a truck the same weight.. & we all know what happens when you run tires underinflated: heat, followed by failure....
I think my dually calls for 55psi..

 

[Defender Chassis]

True, but the tire psi called for was lower than for a truck the same weight.. & we all know what happens when you run tires underinflated: heat, followed by failure....
I think my dually calls for 55psi..

I kinda remember something about a vibration that was inherent to those Explorers that Ford could not figure out so they lowered the tire pressure and that solved the problem. The real problem was that the specified (albeit lower) tire pressure was really close to the danger zone so in the winter you did not have to have much of a temp drop to get in to trouble. Most incidents were when people went on a trip and did not bother to check their tires. Not much heat buildup in short trips around town.

Something I do not understand about the Firestone deal is: in the 60's and 70's there were lots of retreads coming off and nobody lost control then. Are we not as good a driver as we used to be?

 

[HandyManny]

Something I do not understand about the Firestone deal is: in the 60's and 70's there were lots of retreads coming off and nobody lost control then. Are we not as good a driver as we used to be?

As I recall 70 mph to 100 mph were not real common speeds that most people travel at back then when driving passenger type vehicles, even on the highways. Maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

Ha! Good luck with that..

 

[HandyManny]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

Ha Ha! I wouldn't even go there. A topic like that could fill volumes, and not just about the Chinese either.

 

[J.A.F.E.]

Really? You think so? Do you recall a certain tire manufacturer who was exposed some time in 1999 or 2000 for it's lack of integrity and unconcern with safety and ethics? Bridgestone/Firestone! As I recall all those defective tires were made here in the USA. I can find all kinds of ethical issues and lack of safety issues from American owned and operated companies on our soil, but there just isn't room here on this forum to list. Funny how a cow never smells it's own ****. And that not an insult, that just a way of saying before we criticise other countries we should make sure our stuff is in order.

China is no friend of mine. But, by the way, we are the only country to have ever used weapons of mass destruction, did it twice. The world knows that, that's why the Chinese don't mess with us.

Bridgestone/Firestone is a japanese company.

 

[xroad]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

That's right. All I hear and read about are corrupt Chinese officials. I have never heard of an American politician or American corporate officials or even any Americans found to be corrupt. That is why I vote Repubmicarat, and send my money to, what's that guys's name?, Madoff?

Come on, don't paint things with such a broad [Chinese made] brush.

 

[airdale]

That's right. All I hear and read about are corrupt Chinese officials. I have never heard of an American politician or American corporate officials or even any Americans found to be corrupt. That is why I vote Repubmicarat, and send my money to, what's that guys's name?, Madoff?

Come on, don't paint things with such a broad [Chinese made] brush.

Yeah, why do you think unions were started here? Read about the working conditions and child labor that was unbelievable in many companies here 100 years ago. Oops, there goes another can of worms.

 

[ImportTuner]

Bridgestone/Firestone is a japanese company.

Is now .. Firestone was American until Bridgestone took it over ..

 

[xroad]

I just realize the discussion of them dang Cha-neeze is a common theme, along discussion of American made, or not. It is getting old. Seems like we beat this dead horse for so long. I rather talk about tools, Chinese or not, base on it's quality, or quality per price, without all the baggage.

 

[Merkava_4]

I just realize the discussion of them dang Cha-neeze is a common theme, along discussion of American made, or not. It is getting old. Seems like we beat this dead horse for so long. I rather talk about tools, Chinese or not, base on it's quality, or quality per price, without all the baggage.

You can blame me for it - I love bashing the Chinese.

 

[xroad]

You can blame me for it - I love bashing the Chinese.

That is fine. My fault too, I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view. But when the discussions goes beyond bashing and reach borderline racist comments, I am not so comfortable anymore.

 

[Merkava_4]

That is fine. My fault too, I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view. But when the discussions goes beyond bashing and reach borderline racist comments, I am not so comfortable anymore.

It depends on how you interpret people's comments. None of us on here are racists; it's just that we don't like the Chinese trade practices.