To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Is there room in my panel to upsize a circuit?

Catamount

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
547
Location
New England, USA
This is the sub-panel in my garage.

I want to update one of the 220V circuits from 20A (being used for table saw) to 40A (for welding).

Based on the fact that the panel is "full", am I out of luck unless I remove something else first?

photo9w.jpg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

z28snksknr

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
Turnersville, NJ
I just had an electrician upgrade my A/C breaker from a 30A to a 60A (new A/C unit) and ran the larger cable. All he did was replace the breaker and run the wire. My box was full also.

Short answer - you can do it without issue - just replace the breaker and use the appropriate cable for the service.
 

jvitez

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
2,429
Location
Big Sky Country, Canada
You've identified two separate issues that have separate answers. Increasing the load run through a load center is primarily an issue of electrical capacity, not physical space.

1. What is the wire size feeding this subpanel? What is the breaker amperage rating feeding this subpanel from your main panel?

2. What are you planning on running at the same time off of this panel?

Answering these two questions will tell you whether your current set up can handle the extra load of using a welder instead of a table saw.

Volts x amps= watts. Ohm's law. Let's say your subpanel is fed by a 100 amp breaker. 240v x 100 amps= 24,000 watts. This is the maximum amount of power that can be steadily run through this subpanel without tripping the main breaker. Now add up the wattage of everything you will run: welder, lights, heaters, etc. Are you under 24,000 watts or whatever your actual value is? If so, you can add the welder.

Now you can think about how to actually upgrade the circuit. Are you wanting to keep the table saw circuit, or change it from 20A to 40A? If you want to replace it, you'll need to remove the 12 gauge wire fed from the 20 amp breaker in your current table saw circuit, run new 8 gauge wire and feed it from a 40 amp breaker installed in the same two slots.

If you plan on adding a 40 amp circuit, you'll need to replace two of the 15 amp single pole breakers with high density breakers that have two breakers that fit in one slot and move the wiring. Now you'll have the physical space for a new double pole breaker. You'll have to check if your panel accepts this high density breaker though. It looks like you have a Siemens panel. They make dual circuit single pole breakers. I had them in my previous house.
 
OP
C

Catamount

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
547
Location
New England, USA
Thank you jvitez! I didn't even think about checking the main panel for the feeding size. I will check that this evening.

I think I will simply replace the 20 amp circuit with the 40 amp. I don't plan on ever running a table saw AND welder at the same time.

The garage gets very little use so I think everything should be fine here.

A "shade tree electrician" was telling me that I could only upsize my 20 amp circuit to 40 amps if there was "room in the panel". Hence my original mis-guided question.

It sounds like I'm okay here.

Thank you very much for the meaningful reply!
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

1969

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
1,412
Location
East Coast
Space savers or tandems will get the job done. Proper sized wire for the circuit etc. Make sure the addition of a welder circuit don't overload the panel.
 

z28snksknr

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
Turnersville, NJ
I just had an electrician upgrade my A/C breaker from a 30A to a 60A (new A/C unit) and ran the larger cable. All he did was replace the breaker and run the wire. My box was full also.

Short answer - you can do it without issue - just replace the breaker and use the appropriate cable for the service.

I'll refer back to my original post :thumbup:
 

z28snksknr

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
Turnersville, NJ
BTW, installing a 40A breaker does not = a 40A LOAD. It is a max amperage the circuit can draw so that the wire is not overheated and to protect against short circuits. I have 100A service and a 60A A/C breaker.
 
OP
C

Catamount

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
547
Location
New England, USA
BTW, installing a 40A breaker does not = a 40A LOAD. It is a max amperage the circuit can draw so that the wire is not overheated and to protect against short circuits. I have 100A service and a 60A A/C breaker.

Right right right... why didn't I realize this?

Breaker size has to do with the gauge of the wire used, not the size of the panel.

Thanks for waking me up!

:thumbup:
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom