To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Is this a good solder joint?

bw77

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
1,330
Location
Upstate NY
Video showing a fuel pump replacement. Starting at 12:18 he solders the wires and applies heat shrink.


Is this a good joint, or is it cold?
Is all heat shrink gasoline resistant?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

paranoid56

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
1,596
Location
San Diego, Ca
looks a little cold. i did see some flow into the joint. but generally i prefer to tin the solder gun tip, heat the wire from the bottom and melt the solder from the top. that way it flows all the way though all the wires and makes a great joint.

also, not all heat shrink is gas resistant, you need to look up the specs on the shrink you use.
 

Terra Nova

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
4,210
Location
Michigan
looks a little cold. i did see some flow into the joint. but generally i prefer to tin the solder gun tip, heat the wire from the bottom and melt the solder from the top. that way it flows all the way though all the wires and makes a great joint.

also, not all heat shrink is gas resistant, you need to look up the specs on the shrink you use.

x2. Heat on one side of the wires and feed solder from the other. That joint will probably be OK but it does look a touch cold.
 

JamieK

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,760
Location
Winston-Salem, NC
In a situation like that, wouldn't a crimp connector worked fine? Being in gasoline, there shouldn't be any chance for corrosion.
 

unslow1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Messages
7,880
Location
Illinois
In a situation like that, wouldn't a crimp connector worked fine? Being in gasoline, there shouldn't be any chance for corrosion.

What if it comes loose? I also heat the wire from the bottom. Gas tank isn't always full.

In the video personally I wouldn't have been walking around inside and on the tailgate with no hold down bolts.
 
Last edited:

Steinmetz

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,274
Location
Washington State
This guy's all thumbs. First, he strips wires using a pair of cutters, then he fails to twist the wires together. Second, he must think solder is a material somewhat akin to glue.

Will it work? Yes, until it doesn't. And I'd be unwilling to bet that he'll be at home in the driveway when the pump stops pumping fuel.
 

bcradio

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
6,017
Location
New Mexico
What if it comes loose? I also heat the wire from the bottom. Gas tank isn't always full.

What if the solder breaks? :lol_hitti

Anything can happen and if you crimp correctly it'll be fine as well if you do the solder joint right it'll be fine.
 

signcrafter

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
12,365
That's a bad solder joint. I strip the wires. Then twist together. Then tin the soldering iron tip. Hold the iron under the wire and let warm up for a couple seconds if you have the temp set right. Then feed the solder onto the WIRES, not melt solder with soldering iron and let run down onto the wires. If done correctly the solder will **** into the wires immediately and not blob up on top of the wire.
 

MFolks

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
1,045
Location
Springfield Mo.
Don't forget to use the correct soldering flux for a good joint. Plumbing flux will corrode any electrical soldered connection, but Rosin flux should be used for the joint. I clean off my soldered connection swith either rubbing Alcohol, or Acetone, with a cut down 1/2" wide paint brush.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,200
Location
SE MI
Yes, most fuel pump connections are crimped ...

True !

That's a bad solder joint. I strip the wires. Then twist together.

Clean the soldering iron tip with a damp sponge or damp rag.

Then tin the soldering iron tip. Hold the iron under the wire and let warm up for a couple seconds if you have the temp set right. Then feed the solder onto the WIRES, not melt solder with soldering iron and let run down onto the wires. If done correctly the solder will **** into the wires immediately and not blob up on top of the wire.

EXCELLENT WRITE UP ! (except for forgetting to clean the tip but I'll bet you do it all the time ! :thumbup:)


Don't forget to use the correct soldering flux for a good joint. Plumbing flux will corrode any electrical soldered connection, ...

Never use plumbing solder or plumbing flux on anything electric/electronic ! Buy the proper rosen core solder !

P.S. Do yourself a favor right now and buy a pound of lead/tin rosin core solder off of eBay before the world supply is gone. Much easier to work with than the new tin/silver/whatever.
 
Last edited:

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,200
Location
SE MI
Any tin lead rosin solder that is at least 2-4mm diameter is probably adequate. 60% tin/40%lead. Kester 44 used to be "the standard".

Zoro tools still sells it, but not in CA, so I guess it is not completely banned ... yet !
 
Last edited:

signcrafter

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
12,365
Clean the soldering iron tip with a damp sponge or damp rag.



EXCELLENT WRITE UP ! (except for forgetting to clean the tip but I'll bet you do it all the time ! :thumbup:)

Thanks. And yes I use the sponges that came with my hakko station and weller butane iron.
 

srmofo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
6,161
Location
SW ohio
thats cold. Theres no reason to ever flip the joint over and solder it from the back. A good joint will pull the solder right up into the wires. Dont feed too much though
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

scaron

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
407
Location
ypsilanti, michigan
oh man that guy is just doing a horrendous job of it. if you want to do it right, first, make sure the wires are nice and clean then twist the wires together, second, heat the twisted junction real good with your soldering iron, THEN, third, apply the solder to the heated wire junction. you know the wires are at the right temperature when the solder runs all up in the strands and stuff. it should just wick right into the wire, if you're working with stranded. for bonus points, apply some solder flux paste before soldering; HOWEVER; most common electronic solder comes with a core of rosin flux, so, it is more or less "self-fluxing". once the solder dries, fold back the soldered junction, (edit: then, spray finished work with a blast of flux remover or contact cleaner to get rid of flux residue and soldering by-products) then slide back the heat shrink and shrink it up to finish the job. what this guy demonstrates is absolutely what you DO NOT want to do: insufficient heating of the wire; the solder is just beading on the surface (way too much was applied, as well) and not penetrating the joint. the job the guy in the video is doing, the wires are pretty much only being held together by the heat shrink. i bet you could pull that joint apart bare-handed without too much exertion.
 
Last edited:

rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,621
Location
Long Island
Any tin lead rosin solder that is at least 2-4mm diameter is probably adequate. 60% tin/40%lead. Kester 44 used to be "the standard".

Zoro tools still sells it, but not in CA, so I guess it is not completely banned ... yet !

Eutectic solder is 73% tin IIRC. It melts (and freezes) a little faster than 60/40. 50/50 stays liquid even longer.
The good stuff has 1-2% silver in it.
 

0.511MeV

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
421
That is exactly why crimps are specified on anything critical. This guy thinks he knows how to solder well enough to put it in a video for the world to see. But, he cannot solder at all. I would have required that to be reworked.

It is very easy to train someone to use ratcheting crimpers and very easy to periodically test their crimps to make sure the tool is still performing as it should and the technician is using the tool as they should.
 

Stephenw

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,911
Location
Utah
That's a cold joint for sure.

Steinmetz mentioned eutectic solder; it is what I use. Eutectic solder is made of 63% tin and 37% lead.

Standard 60/40 solder goes through a sort of "plastic" state between liquid and solid. If the joint is disturbed during this time, you will have a bad electrical connection that might fail.

Eutectic solder goes almost directly from liquid to solid. It is less likely to have a bad electrical connection.
 

Skin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
11,713
Location
Boston
This guy's all thumbs. First, he strips wires using a pair of cutters, then he fails to twist the wires together.

Twisting wires weakens the copper strands. If its old wiring you'll also break strands off. It also leaves very little of a void for the solder to fill. Pushing the wires together is the better way so he did that part right.

Just my 2 cents.

I would of crimped.
 
Last edited:

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,200
Location
SE MI
That's a cold joint for sure.

Steinmetz mentioned eutectic solder; it is what I use. Eutectic solder is made of 63% tin and 37% lead.

Standard 60/40 solder goes through a sort of "plastic" state between liquid and solid. If the joint is disturbed during this time, you will have a bad electrical connection that might fail.

Eutectic solder goes almost directly from liquid to solid. It is less likely to have a bad electrical connection.

I'll buy that !

Adding silver may make a "better" electrical connection, but the more silver, the higher the temperature required to melt it and the more likelihood that a rookie will melt the insulation.
 

Stephenw

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,911
Location
Utah
I'll buy that !

Adding silver may make a "better" electrical connection, but the more silver, the higher the temperature required to melt it and the more likelihood that a rookie will melt the insulation.

62/36/2 is a common solder that contains 2% silver. I have a roll, and it is very expensive. Many surface mount components have silver in their leads. If you use regular solder, the silver can migrate out and the joint fail. The 62/36/2 solder is used with surface mount components to prevent silver migration.
 

Haveblue

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
1,484
Location
kansas
Quite bluntly, one of the crappiest solder joints I've ever seen. Period. Hack job for sure.
:thumbup: Ill bet that heat shrink isnt fuelproof either. Wait till those wires short together! :shocking:
Also, did he replace the filter? He also should have checked for dirt, debris in the tank! He should also mention to relieve the fuel pressure before opening up the system! (I realize after sitting so long, it had likely bled down)
I thought it to be a poor "instructional video":rolleyes2
 

the gypsy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
1,780
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
As with many you tube videos you must watch many to compare notes because not everybody works well but everybody wants the 15 mins of fame. LOL I have noted mistakes in many you tube videos on different subjects.
 

Alchymist

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
4,423
Location
Central PA
62/36/2 is a common solder that contains 2% silver. I have a roll, and it is very expensive. Many surface mount components have silver in their leads. If you use regular solder, the silver can migrate out and the joint fail. The 62/36/2 solder is used with surface mount components to prevent silver migration.

Back in the days of tube equipment, many Tektronix products components were soldered with a silver bearing solder. For those of you not familiar with that era of Tek equipment, the tie strips used to hold components were ceramic bars with small metal u shaped inserts spaced along one edge. All the manuals stated not to use regular solder when repairing these, as the joint would fail if the two solder types were mixed.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,200
Location
SE MI
62/36/2 is a common solder that contains 2% silver. I have a roll, and it is very expensive. Many surface mount components have silver in their leads. If you use regular solder, the silver can migrate out and the joint fail. The 62/36/2 solder is used with surface mount components to prevent silver migration.

Most electronic devices are now made with lead free solder because of Europena RoHS standard.


The EPA would like to ban recycling lead acid batteries, but there is very little new lead being mined anywhere in the world. Lead mining is more dangerous than lead recycling and lead acid batteries are still the most cost effective means of storing electric energy for reasonable periods of time.
 

trainer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
2,019
Location
Northern Ontario, Canada
I don't understand why he didn't just plug the new pump into the existing connector.
If the factory did it that way, it should work fine. I'd trust it more than heat shrink immersed in gasoline.
 

Steinmetz

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,274
Location
Washington State
That's a cold joint for sure.

Steinmetz mentioned eutectic solder; it is what I use. Eutectic solder is made of 63% tin and 37% lead.

Standard 60/40 solder goes through a sort of "plastic" state between liquid and solid. If the joint is disturbed during this time, you will have a bad electrical connection that might fail.

Eutectic solder goes almost directly from liquid to solid. It is less likely to have a bad electrical connection.

A eutectic mixture has the lowest melting point.
 

Steinmetz

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,274
Location
Washington State
Twisting wires weakens the copper strands. If its old wiring you'll also break strands off. It also leaves very little of a void for the solder to fill. Pushing the wires together is the better way so he did that part right.

Just my 2 cents.

I would of crimped.

I would guess you've never heard of a "solder bridge", then. It is an improper connection technique. The strands must be firmly mechanically coupled before soldering. There does not need to be any "void for the solder to fill".
 

rjwilliams

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
137
Quite bluntly, one of the crappiest solder joints I've ever seen. Period. Hack job for sure.

This is the most accurate description of that solder job. Not even remotely close to good. Most of the posts are pretty close with the heating of the wires and the solder applied to the wire as well. What is missing is that ultimately you should have complete solder flow while still being able to make out the shape of the individual strands. Solder should have a "bright crystalline appearance".
 

Skin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
11,713
Location
Boston
I would guess you've never heard of a "solder bridge", then. It is an improper connection technique. The strands must be firmly mechanically coupled before soldering. There does not need to be any "void for the solder to fill".

After I wrote that I reconsidered what you meant by twist. My point is, and I think you'd agree, you don't want to stress the copper strands any more than necessary. I'm familiar with the what a solder bridge is but don't exactly see why it would matter on two wires you're trying to solder anyway (usually its used in conjunction with PCBs/chips/connectors) but im far from an expert on soldering.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom