Is this a limited Wilton Prototype vise?

[joelsdiener]

I recently picked up with this vise with the help of my good friend, and it is very unique in that its numbered 102 and 103 on the swivel base assembly, and 105 and 106 on the castings. Is this a Wilton Prototype model?
A few of the unique features are that the threaded nut is made out of brass, and the keyway on the bottom of the dynamic jaw is opposite to how Wilton makes all the other styles. Also a unique feature about this one is that the pins that hold the rear nut in place are actually threaded hex screws, that is a very cool feature because I wondered if that is so that the inner threaded nut can be easily switched out for different applications? Obviously brass is softer that iron so the clamping force would be much less with the threaded nut being that material. This vise weights just over 57lbs, primarily due to the density of the threaded nut. Very interested to know if anyone has any more information about this model, thanks!

 

[neophyte]

That is more likely a bronze alloy then a brass alloy, although terminology can be weird.
All alloys that are primarily copper, with alloying elements added to harden or strengthen the alloys are technically “bronze” alloys.
“Brass” is just usually referring to bronze alloys were zinc is the primary alloying element.
The teems also get fuzzy, because “brass” is still a term sometimes used for alloys that look or have similar properties to traditional Zinc Brass alloys.

Nomenclature rant besides.
The alloy appear to have an orange color, and would likely be an alloy typically labelled as Bronze.
Bronze is also more traditionally used for vise parts when used.
With cast iron and vises, tensile strength is usually more important than hardness.
Bronze alloys can routinely be stronger than many Cast Iron alloys.

I have no clue whether that is a “prototype”, although someone with a machine shop doing a nice job repairing a broken vise might also be a possibility.

 

[Rabid Badger]

My money is on a well done repair/upgrade.

I don't think you need to worry about a loss of clamping strength. Count up the threads in the nut and multiply that by the width at the base of the threads. That adds up to a lot of metal you have to shear off.

 

[RTM]

I'm in the repair camp also.

 

[4xdog]

The highest density bronze alloys have a density of about 8.9 g/cm³, and cast iron is about 7.1 g/cm³.

Seems like 25% higher density on just the nut wouldn't change the overall weight of the vise that much.

 

[Fierljeppen]

I'm assuming it has 4" jaws, which would be comparable to the Wilton no. 400S vises, date-stamped (1960-1975). While it shares many of the same features of the Wilton 400S vises, it has obvious casting differences on the main body and swivel base.

Interesting vise and probably the best Wilton "bullet" knockoff vise that I've seen.

 

[joelsdiener]

I'm assuming it has 4" jaws, which would be comparable to the Wilton no. 400S vises, date-stamped (1960-1975). While it shares many of the same features of the Wilton 400S vises, it has obvious casting differences on the main body and swivel base.

Interesting vise and probably the best Wilton "bullet" knockoff vise that I've seen.

Yes, the swivel base fits a 4" wilton perfectly, and looks identical to the Wilton HD #9400 model vise. The swivel base handles are the old style, and inner threaded nut has the identical threads to the Wilton HD #9400 as well. Its all of these features that have led me to strongly believe this is a Wilton Prototype unit, and is very rare.

 

[Fierljeppen]

Yes, the swivel base fits a 4" wilton perfectly, and looks identical to the Wilton HD #9400 model vise. The swivel base handles are the old style, and inner threaded nut has the identical threads to the Wilton HD #9400 as well. Its all of these features that have led me to strongly believe this is a Wilton Prototype unit, and is very rare.

If you can make a strong case with some empirical evidence, it would certainly add significant value to your vise. However, your burden of proof will be very difficult.

Wilton did make a "bullet vise" pattern, especially made for "Lane Tech" student vise projects, in Chicago.



Don't underestimate the Asian communities ability to produce very good "knockoff vises". Besides Wilton, I've seen amazing copies of Morgan and Columbian vises. Here's just a few of the Wilton "knockoff vises" that I've seen, none as good as yours in my opinion.



I look forward to seeing any more evidence showing your vise to truly being a Wilton Protype Bullet vise. If you can, that would be one of the best "vise puzzles" ever!

 

[seber]

I've made the same modifications to one of the Wiltons I had that needed repairs. Hex heads were used just because I felt it was a better way to put it together. That is even the same color I use on them. You didn't get that in Texas by any chance, did you.

 

[joelsdiener]

I've made the same modifications to one of the Wiltons I had that needed repairs. Hex heads were used just because I felt it was a better way to put it together. That is even the same color I use on them. You didn't get that in Texas by any chance, did you.

No I bought this from a guy who was selling stuff off for a elderly friend who had passed away in Chicago.

 

[joelsdiener]

If you can make a strong case with some empirical evidence, it would certainly add significant value to your vise. However, your burden of proof will be very difficult.

Wilton did make a "bullet vise" pattern, especially made for "Lane Tech" student vise projects, in Chicago.



Don't underestimate the Asian communities ability to produce very good "knockoff vises". Besides Wilton, I've seen amazing copies of Morgan and Columbian vises. Here's just a few of the Wilton "knockoff vises" that I've seen, none as good as yours in my opinion.



I look forward to seeing any more evidence showing your vise to truly being a Wilton Protype Bullet vise. If you can, that would be one of the best "vise puzzles" ever!

Yes I thought of Lane Tech, but I understand those all had Lane Tech printed on the side of the vise. I was told by one other person that they had seen one other just like this vise, and it sold for serious dough. I'm just looking for anyone else that might recognize this model possibly.

 

[1982fxr]

The mounting feet look possibly a little "off"?

Is the sweep of the casting leading up to the jaw ledge correct?

 

[joelsdiener]

The mounting feet look possibly a little "off"?

Is the sweep of the casting leading up to the jaw ledge correct?

The feet on the swivel base are Wilton's style from about the 1970's and before for the 4" HD Wilton Model. They are actually identical to the HD model base.

As for the sweep of the casting, yes this leads up to the jaw ledge exactly as it does on the Wilton HD #9400 model.

 

[Fierljeppen]

Here's some features of your vise that don't smell like Wilton to me.

1...The lower casting support has never existed on the Wilton machinist vises.



2...The keyway machining style doesn't resemble any Wilton "Bullet" vise that I've seen.



3...The syntax and location of the casting numbers don't resemble the style Wilton used.



Wilton first introduced their 360 degree swivel in 1954 and the model 400 maintained the same casting style until 1972, when they introduced their newer model. So the date of your vise style resembles the Wilton 400S vises with date-stamps of (1959-1976).



Keep searching for new leads and I truly hope you can prove me wrong, I'm rooting for you!

 

[1982fxr]

Here's some features of your vise that don't smell like Wilton to me.

1...The lower casting support has never existed on the Wilton machinist vises.



2...The keyway machining style doesn't resemble any Wilton "Bullet" vise that I've seen.



3...The syntax and location of the casting numbers don't resemble the style Wilton used.



Wilton first introduced their 360 degree swivel in 1954 and the model 400 maintained the same casting style until 1972, when they introduced their newer model. So the date of your vise style resembles the Wilton 400S vises with date-stamps of (1959-1976).



Keep searching for new leads and I truly hope you can prove me wrong, I'm rooting for you!

The bases are definitely not the same on yours and his.

 

[Rabid Badger]

You might try messaging Jesus Marquez (@mexashop1) on Instagram.

The guy has probably the world's biggest vise collection. If anyone would know what you have, it's him.

 

[Shiftless]

An even better source of info would be fellow GJ member autopts. I can’t think of anybody who knows as much about Wiltons as him.

 

[joelsdiener]

Here's some features of your vise that don't smell like Wilton to me.

1...The lower casting support has never existed on the Wilton machinist vises.



2...The keyway machining style doesn't resemble any Wilton "Bullet" vise that I've seen.



3...The syntax and location of the casting numbers don't resemble the style Wilton used.



Wilton first introduced their 360 degree swivel in 1954 and the model 400 maintained the same casting style until 1972, when they introduced their newer model. So the date of your vise style resembles the Wilton 400S vises with date-stamps of (1959-1976).



Keep searching for new leads and I truly hope you can prove me wrong, I'm rooting for you!

Thanks for your comment! You have valid points, and I've thought about many of them as well! I will keep on searching because i've had two people very knowledgeable on Wilton's tell me they believe strongly its a Wilton Prototype, so I'll keep searching. Thank you again for your help!!!!

 

[joelsdiener]

The bases are definitely not the same on yours and his.

Yes that is because his is the newer generation base

 

[joelsdiener]

You might try messaging Jesus Marquez (@mexashop1) on Instagram.

The guy has probably the world's biggest vise collection. If anyone would know what you have, it's him.

Hey thanks very much! I'll definitely reach out to him!

 

[joelsdiener]

An even better source of info would be fellow GJ member autopts. I can’t think of anybody who knows as much about Wiltons as him.

Hey thank you! Yes autopts is just the man that told him he is positively convinced this is a Wilton, and is most likely a very rare prototype! I'm so glad that you mentioned him because I have personally looked over this vise with him! Thanks again for you comment, I really appreciate it!

 

[exmaxima1]

Here's some features of your vise that don't smell like Wilton to me.

1...The lower casting support has never existed on the Wilton machinist vises.



2...The keyway machining style doesn't resemble any Wilton "Bullet" vise that I've seen.

I agree. The casting support is there to accommodate the tall keyway. Wilton had the tooling to make the current keyway so it makes no sense to mill that oddball. When you add in the bronze nut---another standard part that Wilton would not need to cast in bronze--I am inclined to believe it was a repair job or a shop project.

 

[oak_park]

Write to Wilton with numerous photos and you might get a letter back like the below from some listing I can't remember,
but took a screen shot of it. A letter would increase the value substantially. I saw your vise listed on Offer Up several weeks here in Chicagoland. Good luck.

 

[Pagan Wizard]

I recently picked up with this vise with the help of my good friend, and it is very unique in that its numbered 102 and 103 on the swivel base assembly, and 105 and 106 on the castings. Is this a Wilton Prototype model?
A few of the unique features are that the threaded nut is made out of brass, and the keyway on the bottom of the dynamic jaw is opposite to how Wilton makes all the other styles. Also a unique feature about this one is that the pins that hold the rear nut in place are actually threaded hex screws, that is a very cool feature because I wondered if that is so that the inner threaded nut can be easily switched out for different applications? Obviously brass is softer that iron so the clamping force would be much less with the threaded nut being that material. This vise weights just over 57lbs, primarily due to the density of the threaded nut. Very interested to know if anyone has any more information about this model, thanks!

Actually Lane Tech High School contracted Wilton. Wilton installed all the machinery in the school's metal shop, and changed the lettering on the molds that were used to cast the bodies to say LANE TECH instead of WILTON. The students in metal shop class were given the opportunity to cast, and build their own vise, and keep it. My father graduated from Lane Tech in the early 60's. He told me about those vises, and said he wished that he took metal shop, just to be able to make one for himself. I found one that has been restored to give to him. He said that his health was getting too bad to be able to use it for anything more than collecting dust, and wanted me to keep it for myself. That was about 10 years ago, and he's still on this side of the grass. I do need to repaint the vise, the guy I bought it from used paint that is very easily scratched off, but I don't know what kind of paint will be strong enough.

 

[1982fxr]

Didn't the very first ones also have a lower rear pin?

 

[joelsdiener]

Actually Lane Tech High School contracted Wilton. Wilton installed all the machinery in the school's metal shop, and changed the lettering on the molds that were used to cast the bodies to say LANE TECH instead of WILTON. The students in metal shop class were given the opportunity to cast, and build their own vise, and keep it. My father graduated from Lane Tech in the early 60's. He told me about those vises, and said he wished that he took metal shop, just to be able to make one for himself. I found one that has been restored to give to him. He said that his health was getting too bad to be able to use it for anything more than collecting dust, and wanted me to keep it for myself. That was about 10 years ago, and he's still on this side of the grass. I do need to repaint the vise, the guy I bought it from used paint that is very easily scratched off, but I don't know what kind of paint will be strong enough.

Thats awesome! I've yet to find one myself, i'm definitely looking!

 

[joelsdiener]

Didn't the very first ones also have a lower rear pin?

the first ones had a separate end cap.

 

[1982fxr]

the first ones had a separate end cap.

I don't follow. Don't they all have a separate end cap.

 

[joelsdiener]

I don't follow. Don't they all have a separate end cap.

What I was referring to is the end nut, the newer style does not have the end nut. The inner screw is pinned directly to the static body, along with the dust cap.

 

[joelsdiener]

I've made the same modifications to one of the Wiltons I had that needed repairs. Hex heads were used just because I felt it was a better way to put it together. That is even the same color I use on them. You didn't get that in Texas by any chance, did you.

No I got that right here in the suburbs of Chicago exactly where Wilton was manufactured for 50+ years, which is why I strongly feel it is a Wilton Prototype.

 

[1982fxr]

Reason I popped back into this thread is I just got a really old one myself and I'm trying to find out if it's a second version or what of the 1941-1944.

Thread is here in the vintage section if anyone has any input

Age of this Wilton bullet Pat Pending?

I'm a little fuzzy on these really early models. No date on key. Am I correct that this is a second version of the first generation 1941-1944? I think it has a lower pinned nut at the rear but it's really hard to tell and I'm sure not messing with the paint.

www.garagejournal.com

 

[joelsdiener]

Reason I popped back into this thread is I just got a really old one myself and I'm trying to find out if it's a second version or what of the 1941-1944.

Thread is here in the vintage section if anyone has any input

Age of this Wilton bullet Pat Pending?

I'm a little fuzzy on these really early models. No date on key. Am I correct that this is a second version of the first generation 1941-1944? I think it has a lower pinned nut at the rear but it's really hard to tell and I'm sure not messing with the paint.

www.garagejournal.com

go

Reason I popped back into this thread is I just got a really old one myself and I'm trying to find out if it's a second version or what of the 1941-1944.

Thread is here in the vintage section if anyone has any input

Age of this Wilton bullet Pat Pending?

I'm a little fuzzy on these really early models. No date on key. Am I correct that this is a second version of the first generation 1941-1944? I think it has a lower pinned nut at the rear but it's really hard to tell and I'm sure not messing with the paint.

www.garagejournal.com

I see, very good. Pictures would help in identifying it.

 

[1982fxr]

They're in the link above but here you go. Appears to have rear pin in the low position.

 

[1982fxr]

Other side

 

[joelsdiener]

Other side

that is a great looking vise! It is an older model if i understand it correctly, likely manufactured sometime between 43-44. The ones manufactured after those dates that have the 'fish hooks' have two t's in patt pen.

 

[Pagan Wizard]

Here are pics of my Wilton/Lane Tech vise. I'm looking for the correct swivel base for it. I have looked at a few but haven't found one that fits properly. I do have a swivel base, but it seems to be much newer than my vise, it fits onto the vise, but movement is pretty difficult.

 

[squirrel17]

Found this, looks similar minus your castings numbers and different base. Could be same program just different years.

https://imgur.com/nI3wI4P