is this a load bearing wall? help..

[Spyider]

hey i recently bought my home and in the garage it has a wall between the 2 and 1 car side.. looks to me like it was just done after the garage was built as the bottom board are also not pressure treated so they are getting kinda water damaged..
not shure 100% if i want to remove it yet but ide like to know if its load bearing or not so i can remove it if i want. i took the walls off and right now i like how much larger it feels out their. so any help would be great...

thanks.

 

[Spyider]

garage is 25x30 with 8ft ceilings also if that matters.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Home made 2x4 trusses spanning 26 ft or better maybe ? With a storage floor on them ? I would leave the wall until a better load bearing plan is calculated and installed . JMO

 

[shaun oriold1]

I'm no structural engineer, but it looks like its holding something up to me..... I'd leave it too....

 

[Spyider]

well the floor is just in the middle, someone just hammered down 3/4" boards.. I know the home use to be a upper lower rental thats now a single family home. so i think it was split at some point for a renter to have a 1 car..

 

[rburke65]

No Eng. here either, but to me it looks as if the wall was built to strengthen the attic area, and the plywood gussets were also added to support the attic area so that could be used for storage.

 

[bczygan]

Load bearing. You must assume that, because there is no way to determine the load bearing capacity of the home built trusses. They must have a splice in the bottom chord, and the connections for that and the other wood gussets are not something you can easily determine the capacity of. In addition, you don't know the species and grade and properties of the lumber used.

You can replace a portion of, or the entire wall, if you replace it with a beam. The beam must have a column to bear on at each end.

The beam can go below or above the trusses it is supporting.

It can be composed of any material that is designed to support the required loads.

Attention must be given to the connections to the existing joists.

 

[Spyider]

i think thats just how they made the trusses back in the day, before they used the metal strips that are hammered in.. i dont plan to store much up their as the entire garage is only 2x4 made..

 

[AndyCBR]

I'd be tempted to keep it in place. Whether it was intended to be load bearing or not when built I suspect it is carrying load now. The fact that the studs line up with the joists is probably not a coincidence.

However, if you need to replace the rotten plate you can do so piecemeal (5-6 feet at a time) while keeping the wall intact. Also, you could free up floor space by using a header and bridge the load, like a large cased opening to open up the space.

 

[ADSR]

yes it is.

 

[Daedalus]

Depends on pitch. The steeper the pitch, the wider you can go. That said, I have a 18' wide garage with 2x4 trusses and that thing scare me. Doubt it would meet code today. I'm kinda just waiting for it to fall over so I can build a new one. It has already started leaning 1 way.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

i think thats just how they made the trusses back in the day, before they used the metal strips that are hammered in.. i dont plan to store much up their as the entire garage is only 2x4 made..

I cannot sit here behind my PC and say you may be mistaken, as you may be right. But to me, factory built truss wood gussets would have been fabricated from all like wood. I am seeing painted plywood, various gusset plates that look like they have been added on over the factory metal plates or the whole truss package was home made. I don't know. Good luck with your project. jmo

 

[Spyider]

thanks for all the input. looks like ill just replace the bottom rotten piece eventually. ill just finish it off some day.

 

[Kaizen]

spyder I'd take that out and put in a glulam beam or headers. at least you will only have two or three posts to deal with. that whole thing looks like it was put together with scraps. guessing all the plywood gussets was an after thought when the center was sagging then they put in the wall. definitely holding up those ceiling joists.

 

[stikman56]

If it was built that way and it's running the opposite way of the trusses, then it would be.

 

[CNGsaves]

Every indication that wall IS load bearing. Leave it until you get qualified on-site evaluation.

What is plan for garage ?? Want beam/header to open up the space?? Want to pursue steel I-beam to minimize headroom obstruction if wall removed ??

Do you want attic to handle some weight for storage up there??

Above plans will determine which direction you go once you get quote. Good luck.

 

[cdestuck]

At least you could throw a beam up there and live with a couple of posts to support it. Better than what us have now.

 

[Spyider]

well i only have 8ft ceilings.. ide love to cut the center section out and vault it to the peak to give me 10-12ft their.. so i can install a real hoist. but that will probably be more work/money than its worth.. ill just drive the 2 blocks to work and use the hoists their haha.
ide like it open for the larger feel. but at the same time i like the wall to keep the kids and all their junk out of at least my one side haha.. so its hard to say what i should do. if i were to start over 12ft ceilings would be #1 on the list.

Storage up their to me is just a bonus if i lose it or cant have it.. its not the end of the world And i believe thats just how the garage was built back in the day with those 3/4" plywood gussets.. as their are NO metal brackets behind the wood.. kinda looks like it was a DIY onsite garage build.

 

[FordTruckWench]

They must have a splice in the bottom chord

You can see one such splice in the 6th picture. I believe this is over the two car wide bay.

It looks like there may also be splices right over the "wall": In the 8th picture the 2x4's used in the bottom chord of the truss are different on one side of the wall from the other. In particular, there is one over the middle bay that is gray and is missing one corner (it's cut from the edge of a log) and its continuation is a full 2x4 in a normal color.

 

[Trey T]

SPYIDER: Great photos and that's quite a simple question. Based on the infomation you provide, that's not a bearing wall. Look at the diagram I dabble up (not to scale) and you can see that the wall (red) doesn't serve much. If it is a bearing wall, then there would be another wall (dash line w/ ?? marks) inside that garage.

Also, like you said, teh base/sole plate is NOT pressure treated; it's a tell-tale sign of a novice installation.

 

[38Chevy454]

I tend to think it is not load bearing, but the certain solution is to just replace the wall and studs with a beam with support posts at either end and one in the middle. 12 ft span beam is a lot less cost than 24 ft span, assuming you can live with one middle post. Then you can remove the wall, but still have support. That will open it up, and maintain the structure as it is.

I think those trusses are what was common in past times to use a plywood gusset like you have. Especially since you have what seem to be custom built on-site trusses, as opposed to pre-made.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . need MORE PIC's of front of garage for entire roofline.

What are rafters like above the 2 car garage portion ??

Any future plans to finish ceiling with sheetrock and insulate ??

 

[rslaback]

The wall was clearly installed (poorly) after the fact.

The first question is does it support a load now. That answer is likely yes.

The second question is does it need to? That will depend on a lot more variables that we know so far.

 

[SJR033]

I agree with those saying, not load bearing, installed poorly & after the garage was originally built. There is no header above the man door. And based on the OP's statement that it was divided into 2 units. Suggests that it was installed by a landlord for renting.

 

[Jlbc212]

Looks like site built trusses. They were very common before the manufactured ones became popular. From the pictures you provided it looks like they were built well. I doubt that the wall is load bearing. There's a couple of simple ways to determine if it is. The first would be to start cutting the studs with a handsaw. If the saw begins to bind while you are making the cut, then there's obviously a downward load being supported by the stud. Another way to check (similar to the first) is to remove whatever it is (probably hardened concrete nails) that is holding/tying the wall in place on the floor. After the ties have been removed see if the bottom of the wall feels loose, like you could easily kick it over an inch or two. You could do the same procedure along the top of the wall. It may be easier to see and remove or cut those nails. Use a saw-all, inserting the blade between the top of the wall and the bottom chord of the truss.

 

[FJ 432]

You are saving $3-500 by not hiring a structural engineer on your home that is worth considerably more.

What was the question?

 

[Elginz]

I would say it is not load bearing, but I would also add to the nail schedule of the plywood truss plates. Of course I have to add "IMO from the pictures"

 

[Zeke]

No double top plate and the studs don't layout directly under the trusses. Wasn't intended to be a load bearing wall, just a demising wall. Cut one of the studs right at the plate with a Sawzall or even a hack saw. If the blade binds at the finish of the cut, there is some pressure on the wall. If the blade goes out the other side of the cut w/o binding, the wall is not holding any weight. You can do this procedure in the middle of the stud too, but then you don't have a stud anymore.

 

[Architorture]

I'd guess it is not loadbearing. That said the suggestion that cutting any single stud would be enough to be sure of that isn't sufficient.

Given the homemade nature of the structure there is not guarantee that each truss is loaded equally or transferring its load to the top plate of the wall.

 

[Spyider]

well i can tell you that the wall is not 100% anchored down. i was moving something large and bumped into the stud, the entire bottom of the wall near the door shifted like 1/4" maybe a little more.. just took my dead blow and pushed her back haha. i guess the next time the brother in law comes down ill have them look at it as they are both structural engineers..
Its just to me if it were load bearing their would be a wall on either side of the home made trusses as they are exactly the same like in that drawing he did.. ill get some pics tomorrow of the outside and more inside if needed..

 

[Spyider]

And yes eventually i would like to finish it off with insulation and sheet rock.. heat it, make it more usable all year around...

 

[rslaback]

If you bumped it and the wall shifted, it isn't load bearing. Rip it out.

 

[Catadj78]

I agree with others thinking it is not load bearing but what do I know and this is an internet forum. I have a similar situation in my house where I think its not load bearing but the neighbor who has the same floor plan removed the same wall as I am wanting to swears his contractor told him it was. (I believe the contractor was justifying costs) I have engineered trusses with 1/2" or better gap between trusses and wall framing. Better safe than sorry in other words.

 

[PugetDude]

The wall may not be load-bearing, but I'm not sure the homebrewed trusses are either...

 

[Trey T]

^prefab wood trusses only been around in recent decade. The way the trusses are constructed, from an engineering standpoint, it looks fine. It may not look pretty like modern prefab trusses with galvanized ties like Simpson Strong-Ties, but these method of connecting multiple truss members has been around for a century. The most prevalent example is steel K-truss bridges.

The main idea of a truss is maximizing the load capacity by minimizing the overall weight.

 

[thelews]

I'm certainly no engineer, but am currently building a house. None of my load bearing walls look that flimsy. That looks like interior wall construction for sheet rock. But, like I said, I'm just a lay person.

 

[KenC]

I'M in the not load bearing camp too. As far as the trusses, they look good to me. As long as the correct size and grade of lumber is used, plywood gusseted trusses are equal to commercial units.

Somewhere I have a book that my Dad got when he went to a school in the late 40's for farming. It was sponsored by the govt for WWII era vets that were returning to farming. It included a chapter on farm buildings. Covered concrete (hand mixing ratios!!), building design, materials and construction. One chapter dealt with trusses and had several 'approved' designs.

I've used one of those designs, #2DF lumber, good plywood and glue to span 26', no issues.

 

[LB-1911]

^prefab wood trusses only been around in recent decade. The way the trusses are constructed, from an engineering standpoint, it looks fine. It may not look pretty like modern prefab trusses with galvanized ties like Simpson Strong-Ties, but these method of connecting multiple truss members has been around for a century. The most prevalent example is steel K-truss bridges.

The main idea of a truss is maximizing the load capacity by minimizing the overall weight.

In 1952, in Pompano Beach Florida, after experimenting with plywood gusset plates and varying concoctions and combinations of glue, staples, nails and screws, the metal plate connected engineered wood truss was invented and patented. The inventor, A. Carroll Sanford, founder of Sanford Industries, marked the beginning of the truss industry, that is still changing home, apartment and commercial building construction all over the world.

http://timber-trusses.com/history-of-wood-roof-trusses.html

 

[Trey T]

^I'm not certain what you're trying to convey or you're just trying to pick my poor word choice? I believe most ppl on here believe that prefab trusses should look like the pretty modern prefab with ties like Simpson Strong-Tie.

The main point I was trying to make is that trusses have been around for century, just in different flavor but the same principle.

 

[PugetDude]

^prefab wood trusses only been around in recent decade. The way the trusses are constructed, from an engineering standpoint, it looks fine. It may not look pretty like modern prefab trusses with galvanized ties like Simpson Strong-Ties, but these method of connecting multiple truss members has been around for a century. The most prevalent example is steel K-truss bridges.

The main idea of a truss is maximizing the load capacity by minimizing the overall weight.

Agree that plywood gusseted trusses can be just as strong as commercial trusses with nail plates. But I wouldn't want to have that conversation with an insurance adjuster.