Is this acceptable ? Horizontal vent pic attached.

[PoorUB]

All of that said, I have learned over the last year of my build that installing most of these systems really isn't rocket science, regardless of the trade.

I hold trained, licensed tradesmen in the highest regard. I also understand that I am probably as smart as the average bear, am ****, and can to follow directions and/or codes, therefore I can complete most any installation to spec and pass any inspection. Sometimes it seems tradespeople cast all DIY'ers as morons, and proclaim that their industry is just so complex that the homeowner couldn't possibly DIY things without causing massive calamity. It has been my experience that this usually isn't true.

The major difference is, I'd never make ANY money commercially since it takes me so much longer than a skilled, trained, licensed tradesman.

If you can read, you can install most heating equipment. The instructions come with the piece of equipment. Just read and do what they say!
Now, granted, there is some odd install that isn't covered in the book and this is where and experienced installer that is familiar with codes wins out. He can look at the situation and come up with some result that is not in the install manual that meets code.

When I ran a service department install guys would call me and ask me about some situation I knew was in the manual. I would ask them if they have read the install manual and if the answer was no, I told them to read it, then get back with me and hang up the phone. I pounded it into them that I expected them to read the manual and will never give them any **** about sitting down on the job and reading. I told them thy will get **** if they call me and haven't read the install manual.

It was funny, I hired a new kid and the first day we were sitting in my office getting ready to go for the day and one of the guys that has been there a while tells the new guy, "If you haven't read the manual, don't call for help, don't even think about it!!"

 

[Firebrick43]

What! Drugs and alcohol on a worksite is OK? Paying for work that has to be redone from the start is OK? What strange world do you live in?

First, suprise, a large number of construction workers are construction worker because they have drug and alcohol problems. It goes along with it to a point. I would fully understand not wanting active drug/drinking going on your property.

I had to deal with intoxicated and drunk tradesmen and FIRED 3 crews totally and did not pay them.

By this sentence you stated that you fired them for being intoxicated or drunk(again your prerogative) but did not state that they did work that had to be redone like you did with the other tradesman further down. And whether or not you like it that is theft. Its your responsibility to stop/fire them at the start of shift before work begins or pay them for the time/supplies that they have provided even if its shoddy.

Third, its quite a common trick for people to let contractors do a job and then refuse payment because they claim they were drinking on the job. Your rant is a dead ringer for it. My father had this happen more than once. He would do dirt work with his koring excavator and was a copious drinker of diet coke. (Never seen him drink a drop of alcohol) One holy than thou guy wasn't going to pay him for his work of digging a hole for the foundation/basement of an addition and swore is shiny diet coke cans were beer. When I showed up with the talbert he had the bucket above the guys roof and a state trooper (whom my dad was friends with) convinced the guy that he should pay up as there were no beer cans to be found and it really didn't matter as work had been done.

I have heard this same scenario several times, the owner ranting just like you.

 

[toyotadriver]

What!!! That's absolute nonsense.

Please list the areas, be specific, along with letters from the building department that states that inspections ARE NOT REQUIRED.

Your post was DANGEROUS INFORMATION.

My county as well as most counties in the state has no building department. Therefore we have no inspections nor can I ask for a letter because there is no entity to give me one. If I called someone in the county asking who I needed to call for an inspection, they would laugh at me.

Some of us live in free states. Freedom is scary but those of us who have it, most of us like it. We don’t need nanny government there to babysit us.

It’s generally wise to follow most building codes but some codes were specifically written to force property owners to hire “professionals” and pay extra money for things that simply aren’t needed. So, those of us in free areas ignore that which is not needed.

 

[toyotadriver]

Side note….if you hire construction companies of all types you HAVE drug and alcohol users on your job site. The worst ones are concrete workers, roofers, and metal workers. It’s something that goes with the industry. It’s not a good thing but it’s reality.

 

[gmcgeo]

Also Home insurances, If not up to a local code or national code and a fire happens then that is the insurance company's way out.

Even if not having an inspection if you tell your insurance company about the added items they can send someone to inspect

 

[toyotadriver]

Also Home insurances, If not up to a local code or national code and a fire happens then that is the insurance company's way out.

Even if not having an inspection if you tell your insurance company about the added items they can send someone to inspect

That is a popular internet legend but I don’t know of nor have I ever heard of an incident like that happening. In my area, I have seen a number of house fires caused by terrible wood stove installs combined with burning too much green wood (chimney fires). Haven’t seen a denied insurance claim yet and a monkey could have seen how dangerous the wood stove install was.

Not saying it’s impossible but it doesn’t routinely happen. If the insurance company accepts the policy, then they accept the risk that comes with it.

 

[gmcgeo]

my wife is an insurance agent, it has happened

 

[toyotadriver]

my wife is an insurance agent, it has happened

Without details on the specifics then it’s still internet legend. I have never seen a denied claim as long as the policy was paid up. I have seen insurance companies deny certain things the homeowner thought were covered but were not but never seen a claim denied because it didn’t meet some code somewhere. Bear in mind, there are many variations of codes out there.

 

[toyotadriver]

OP I’d check your pipe temps at each bend but I suspect your install will work fine for many years to come. Just keep an eye on the pipe. If you see corrosion forming ins few years, replace it.

 

[PoorUB]

Side note….if you hire construction companies of all types you HAVE drug and alcohol users on your job site. The worst ones are concrete workers, roofers, and metal workers. It’s something that goes with the industry. It’s not a good thing but it’s reality.

I got into the trades later on in life and was shocked at the alcohol abuse in all trades. Plumbing, HVAC, electrical, carpentry, it didn't matter. I swear 3/4ths of the guys needed treatment. Many of the guys I worked with were functioning alcoholics. I new guys that would drink a twelve pack every night, but be the first guy on the job and do great work.

One weekend on of the guys threw and Daytona 500 race party. Everyone one brought beer ar booze. Two guys I worked with showed up with a 24 of beer each. Before the end of the race that had to go make a beer run as they were out. They each drank a case of beer in three hours and hopped in the car to go get more. Hell, I can't drink a case of suds in a week! I couldn't drink two gallons of water in 3 hours but these two could do that much beer. Cripes, it was akin to drinking a 750 of Everclear in three hours and they were still functioning well. I wouldn't believe it if I had not seen it!

 

[gmcgeo]

Without details on the specifics then it’s still internet legend. I have never seen a denied claim as long as the policy was paid up. I have seen insurance companies deny certain things the homeowner thought were covered but were not but never seen a claim denied because it didn’t meet some code somewhere. Bear in mind, there are many variations of codes out there.

 

[PoorUB]

Also Home insurances, If not up to a local code or national code and a fire happens then that is the insurance company's way out.

Even if not having an inspection if you tell your insurance company about the added items they can send someone to inspect

I have never seen anyone get refused a claim, but plenty of times the insurance company paid the claim, then dropped the customer. Probably a repeat offender.

I had a claim a couple years ago. My adult daughter flew in to visit and got in a minor fender bender with my wife's car. We turned it in to insurance and got a call a few days later and they were quizzing me about the accident and why this person was driving our car. They relaxed a bit when they found out it was our daughter but were still giving me some grief. I told the gal I had been a customer for forty years and I don't think it should be and issue. She hesitated for a few seconds, snd I could hear the keyboard clicking away, and she said, oh, I see you have been with us since 1976! Then she said, I don't think this will be an issue!

 

[D45]

I think alot of it boils down to if the installation follows nationally accepted code(s), regardless of a permit or inspection

This will give insurance companies leverage if a claim would ever be filed

 

[rancherbill]

That is a popular internet legend but I don’t know of nor have I ever heard of an incident like that happening. .....

Not saying it’s impossible but it doesn’t routinely happen. If the insurance company accepts the policy, then they accept the risk that comes with it.

Really?

I do not know of an insurance company that beats down your door to give you ALL the money that you deserve. All of their adjuster went to Fleecem Srewem and Howe Insurance Adjuster School.

 

[toyotadriver]

Trying to force you to take money vs denying a policy they wrote and you paid for is not the same thing. Just because something is internet rumor doesn’t make it true. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No. Does anyone have a FIRST HAND account of an incident like that happening with specific details? Please share.

 

[Smniemi]

What! Drugs and alcohol on a worksite is OK? Paying for work that has to be redone from the start is OK? What strange world do you live in?

You are telling me you’ve never finished a project at your house after a few beers?

 

[rancherbill]

You are telling me you’ve never finished a project at your house after a few beers?

You go and drink at your job and see how long you last at your employer.

BTW, I do not drink while doing projects, I injure myself enough sober.

 

[PoorUB]

You go and drink at your job and see how long you last at your employer.

BTW, I do not drink while doing projects, I injure myself enough sober.

Ten years, the boss usually bought the beer! It happens more than one would believe!

 

[rancherbill]

Ten years, the boss usually bought the beer! It happens more than one would believe!

True, I bet that guy was an employee not an owner. An owner wants to leave a stamp of quality on the products, not beer bottle stains.

Real fact 30% of the population of Canada and the US will have a problem with Alcohol in their life. Most will recover, however 3-4% will become chronic alcoholics. Of the 30% they have MUCH higher rates of premature death. Factors such as accidents, suicides, murders, overdose, impaired driving etc contribute to these premature deaths.

BTW, I almost got to the 3% group.

 

[drmarkr]

True, I bet that guy was an employee not an owner. An owner wants to leave a stamp of quality on the products, not beer bottle stains.

Real fact 30% of the population of Canada and the US will have a problem with Alcohol in their life. Most will recover, however 3-4% will become chronic alcoholics. Of the 30% they have MUCH higher rates of premature death. Factors such as accidents, suicides, murders, overdose, impaired driving etc contribute to these premature deaths.

BTW, I almost got to the 3% group.

Cool. You're an expert on home inspections, AND EtOH addiction......

 

[PoorUB]

True, I bet that guy was an employee not an owner. An owner wants to leave a stamp of quality on the products, not beer bottle stains.

Real fact 30% of the population of Canada and the US will have a problem with Alcohol in their life. Most will recover, however 3-4% will become chronic alcoholics. Of the 30% they have MUCH higher rates of premature death. Factors such as accidents, suicides, murders, overdose, impaired driving etc contribute to these premature deaths.

BTW, I almost got to the 3% group.

You would be wrong!

Also, guys can have a beer or two and still do good work. It is the guy sneaking around a .750 liter in his truck, or the guy that drinks a 12 pack every night that worry me. The guys that have a beer or two every so often are really not a concern.

 

[KJ in VT]

What!!! That's absolute nonsense.

Please list the areas, be specific, along with letters from the building department that states that inspections ARE NOT REQUIRED.

Your post was DANGEROUS INFORMATION.

All but 20 of the 246 Towns in the State of Vermont. I'll not be providing letters from building departments that don't exist. One should refrain from speaking of things they know nothing about.

 

[James-W]

Where I live we have to get permits and have inspections for concrete work on a building foundation, for electrical work, and for building construction. You also need a permit for a concrete driveway, but it doesn't need to be inspected. As near as I can tell the permit is primarily a money making thing for the city and also so the city knows you have a concrete driveway and they will increase your property taxes. If you have a blacktop driveway installed you don't need a permit and you do not get a property tax increase for it. Not sure just why that is, it just is. As far as I know HVAC needs no permits or inspections. When we got a new furnace there was no permit or inspection and it was done by a well respected and licensed HVAC company. When I got the Hot Dawg heater installed in our garage is was done by the same HVAC company and the local gas company ran the natural gas line and installed the gas meter. The HVAC guys ran the gas inside the garage and installed the Hot Dawg heater. I asked the HVAC guys if a permit and inspection was needed and they assured me that it wasn't. I really do not think they would lie about not needing a permit or an inspection, if is was needed they would get the permit and add the cost to my bill so they have nothing to gain by lying to me. Also, why would they risk getting into a legal problem when they could easily get a permit and have an inspection done and it costs them nothing? Any cost would just get billed to me.

 

[75gmck25]

You also have to carefully read the inspection criteria and understand if it applies. For example, I could install a new gas boiler or water heater to replace an existing unit and there is no inspection required. In general, you don't need inspection unless you are changing or replacing the gas lines that run up to the appliance connection.