Is this device safe for a 14 year old?

[lsupcar]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/38093787545...l?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=380937875451&_rdc=1

My son asked for this for his 14th birthday. He says he plans to use it to power and test his electrical projects.
At full voltage and amperage, is this something that could electrocute him or burn down the house or shop?
I have instilled workplace safety into him and he does practice it, but he is young.
I am more into mechanical items and electricity is not my thing.
Thanks for your help.
Bill

 

[slip knot]

If he knows what it is your probably safe. I've known some 40 year olds who shouldn't be left with something like that. Age isn't a determinant as much as knowledge is.

 

[kingchevy]

You must have a good kid there if that's what he wants for his birthday, I'm sure he is more mechanically inclined than 99% of 14 year olds.

 

[nine4gmc]

It should have internal protection against shorts and the voltage is not too much so I'd say go for it. Kids should be given opportunities to use devices and machines to gain knowledge. Some things require more parental guidance but by 14, I was building speaker boxes and installing stereos for the neighborhood kids using dads power tools and my hand tools.

 

[ddawg16]

It's safe. One would be hard pressed to use it in such a way as to do harm. He is in more danger plugging in a TV

 

[justsam]

It is safe.
It is a nice supply that will be of use as long as he is in electronics. Encourage him!

 

[A_Pmech]

If he knows what it is your probably safe. I've known some 40 year olds who shouldn't be left with something like that. Age isn't a determinant as much as knowledge is.

True on all accounts.

 

[pedrodagr8]

Is it safe? Yeah, most of these models are. There are a variety of them using the same case with vastly different internals. There have been reported issues on some with swapped live/neutral or worse live/ground (at least then it doesn't power up so you KNOW something is wrong unless you touch the case ). Truth be told, almost all though are fine; the bigger issue is reliability. The quality isn't great, some have overheating issues (can only do 5A for a few minutes before shutting down), intermittent failures, etc. Also, these have really bad turn on overshoot. Meaning when the power is turned on, the rail spikes up to dozens of volts and then settles back down. This isn't a safety issue but it CAN kill your projects if you have everything plugged in before you turn it on. Very frustrating for a first time learner who isn't expecting it.

Could it burn down your house? I could burn down your house with a nine volt battery and some steel wool. The voltages and amperages on these are acceptable for his age. The amperage is a bit higher than he needs, but nothing I would worry about in the least bit. If he's asking for one of these, he likely knows what he is doing. By the way, send him over to EEVBlog, its like this forum but for electronics, circuit design and test equipment. Nanofrog and I hang out over there as well (then again, maybe thats more a reason to keep him away).

If I might step-in and offer some advice for you and him. I'd go for something a bit older and with at least TWO isolated channels. The two isolated channels allows for the supply to function as a +/- supply which is essential for learning electronics topics like OP-Amps and amplifiers. The older models won't have the digital displays at this price point, but the cheap ones are seldom that accurate anyways. That being said, like old tools, the quality is dramatically better and the value CAN be significant. My favorite single channel bench supply cost me $100, it is a specialized high precision supply. To match that performance in a modern new instrument I would be looking at close to $5000. Though, it can take time sorting through the people who have a turd and think they have a goldmine to find the real deals there are great deals out there. For what I mentioned, you might pay a bit more than the cost of the supply you linked but the quality would be night and day better. It depends on how much searching you do (craigslist and local university surplus are GREAT locations to find these things for pennies on the dollar) and how much time you have. Some times, there are almost no deals to be found and other times there are dozens of them.

At the end of the day, you know your budget and your son. The supply he linked should do OK, there just might be better options if you expands things a bit. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[nanofrog]

+1 on all of it.

By the way, send him over to EEVBlog, its like this forum but for electronics, circuit design and test equipment. Nanofrog and I hang out over there as well (then again, maybe thats more a reason to keep him away).

Now, now, don't scare the **** out of the man.... send the kid on over, and he'll do that on his own in good time.

 

[andrewthesith]

i was about 8 when i handled my first chainsaw.


my guess is he is doing mostly low(er) voltage stuff and if he wants it to test his projects, he probably understands electricity and how to safe work with it.

 

[lsupcar]

Thanks all. What you say is reassuring. I do want to support his efforts.

Pedrodagr8, if it not too much trouble, can you or someone else give me an example of a machine you mention with this comment ("I'd go for something a bit older and with at least TWO isolated channels.")? Even if the example is a newer machine with the features you suggest, I can work backward looking for units with those features.
Thanks.
Bill

 

[BillK]

Bill,
Very unlikely that 30 volts is going to hurt him. It all depends on the kid, you should know him better than anyone here. I was taking radios apart and fixing them when I was around 12 and those old tube radios were a LOT higher voltage than anything that power supply will run. But like someone else said, I know 40 year olds that should not be touching a battery, so it just depends on him.

 

[nanofrog]

Thanks all. What you say is reassuring. I do want to support his efforts.

Pedrodagr8, if it not too much trouble, can you or someone else give me an example of a machine you mention with this comment ("I'd go for something a bit older and with at least TWO isolated channels.")? Even if the example is a newer machine with the features you suggest, I can work backward looking for units with those features.
Thanks.
Bill

Trygon Electronics DL40-1 would be one such example.

 

[sberry]

I saw a show on tv some whiz kid wired the garage at 3 and at 5 had a bedroom that looked like my Buds electronic TV shop, had neon sign trannys, everything you could think of when he was 5. Somehow they learn not to hurt themselves.
Maybe he knows what he is doing, maybe that's the perfect thing, ask him but it looks limited to me. I think there is one out on the bench here the suggestion to offer some help should be taken.
I have trouble with an ohm and volt, it really hurts my trouble shooting. If we had to fix the radio to get off the island we would be stranded. I got to look at the pictures to do a 3 way, its bad.
You should encourage this and get a meter or 2 if he doesn't have a couple. The learning curve is high, right now is the perfect time to toss some support and even a little money behind.
A Bud of mine moved back in this week and its been haphazard and finally he said,,, I wish I had this in a bench so today is going to be electronic/bench/tool storage station. My oldest is 6 and I want him started with a little mentoring in electronics and math where I never understood,,, music either.
Being a wireman is different, I am an installer and production minded more than technical. I am a little like someone runs a company that cant read. I got tricks and a lot of repetition as well extreme variety where I can put my finger on a lot of problems but it aint from being smart and mostly by simple observation. Real know how and skill beat that.
I got buds in the trades, they are all good at what they do and one or 2 havnt really worked with, I know he is smart but the rest masters etc. Heating man, boiler plumma air cond, master electricians,,, when I want to know whats wrong with something I get my TV repair guy.

 

[MBfreak]

It is a 0-30 V lab DC power supply with a built in current limiter, hat is adjustable and works well.
I have a similar unit .

If he makes it a routine to adjust the voltage to what he needs to supply and then crank down the current limiter to a low value he will be OK.
After this, connect the load and increase the current limiter up to a bit above what the connected part needs.

Even not doing that, I see no reason to worry.

The mains cord must be intact and it has to be the specified type of mains outlet, but this is no more than any mains powered appliance needs.

Best regards

Ola

 

[bobbycos]

very smart son to ask for something like that for his birthday instead of a videogame


get it for him

 

[caesar2001]

Years ago I modified a computer power supply to a basic power supply. It had +5V, +12V, +3.3V. Similar to http://www.instructables.com/id/Con...o-a-Bench-Top-Lab/step3/Presenting-The-Power/

I still have it and use it on occasion.

lsupcar, I think that power supply is a better choice. More voltage options. Looks similar to the Volteq unit on my desk at work. I will consider buying one as well.

Converting an old power supply might be fun for him (and you). I can post a picture of mine if you would like.

 

[sberry]

He is not a geek with a puter and not an engineer but determined a problem on my synchrowave was a resistor on a board which I suspect had been replaced before. I bought it cheap, there was a problem a couple guys missed and jumped to conclusions about. I figured out,,, what they thought wasn't so,, I couldn't fix it but knew someone that could.
Recovered the perfect machine at the right cost. I tipped him a hundred bucks.
Some new stuff you cant do that but we fixed 6 heaters the other morning and repaired a furnace control with no down time and no parts cost.

 

[MadMechMaster]

I'm going to go against the crowd here and offer an opinion. I don't see a UL or ETL listing. The 30V 5A is not really the issue that I see. It's the AC voltage side that would be be my concern.

At least put it on a power strip, so he can power it off (along with the soldering iron) when he is finished.

 

[lsupcar]

Thanks again everyone.
I have now been looking at power supplies on ebay, starting with the one nanofrog linked, which looks like the over engineered kind of equipment I like to purchase. I am not sure how important the max volt and amp capabilities are for his purposes. Would 40volts and 1 amp be limiting in general use? It also gets back to my original question of how many volt and amps to consider before getting worried about safety risks.
Caesar2001, which unit are you referring to when you say, "I think that power supply is a better choice. More voltage options. Looks similar to the Volteq unit on my desk at work." The older Trygon unit, or the newer one I originally linked? And thanks for diy power supply link. I think he also might have built one of those.

Madmechmaster, looking closer at the unit I was originally asking about, you are right, and I don't even see a manufacture's name on it. Again, I prefer to by quality once and be done with it.

I really appreciate the help with this guys. I wish I knew more on the subject.
Bill

 

[pedrodagr8]

Thanks all. What you say is reassuring. I do want to support his efforts.

Pedrodagr8, if it not too much trouble, can you or someone else give me an example of a machine you mention with this comment ("I'd go for something a bit older and with at least TWO isolated channels.")? Even if the example is a newer machine with the features you suggest, I can work backward looking for units with those features.
Thanks.
Bill

Basically, what you will be looking for is typical five connectors on the front. Two red, two black and a green (or white). These are + (red) - (black), one for each channel and earth (green or white). The earth is connected directly to the ground pin at the wall. Some supplies will occasionally have a second ground (like the one that nanofrog showed.

Some examples with explanations of what you are seeing.

Triple Channel Supply The is from Power Designs, one of several great companies: HP/Agilent, Sorensen, etc. (all american or european made). This one has two channels set for +/- operation out of the box (the upper two) and an additional higher amperage 0-6V channel (lower). The upper are -32 to which can be VERY useful for supplying digital devices in a mixed digital/analog circuit system. One thing to note is that these things are LARGE! Just noticed this is for parts (it says Source [email protected]). If you notice, the current limit adjuster is set differently from the ones above. I have a feeling it is set to 0.9A, but thats not guaranteed.

Another Triple Channel This one is by Sorensen and designed to look like three separate supplies, while in reality it is a triple channel supply. This one is capable of 20V-3A per channel. Very good quality device.

HP/Agilent Dual Channel An older HP (which became Agilent and is now Keysight) Power supply. Should be good quality but in decent shape. HP/Agilent supplies tend to command the highest $ for the used models.

HP Dual Channel An HP in rough shape, always take advantage of 'make an offer'. This is true even if they don't have a make an offer option on the page. Try sending an email and offering a lower price. You would be surprised at the number of times they will accept the offer on used equipment.

These are just a few examples for you.

By the wya, the reason that the older HP's are so popular is that the service manuals are freely available online and most have full schematics. So if something does go wrong, it is easy to repair.

Edit: Looking at that Power Designs supply, I think that guy doesn't understand how the current set works. He has left the current settings as is, this is why it is maxing out at very specific values. I can't guarantee this is the case but I have a strong feeling it is.

 

[caesar2001]

Sorry Bill. I should have specific. The link in your original post (http://www.ebay.com/itm/380937875451...451&_rdc=1) was the one that I liked. But after reading the comments after... I agree with MadMechMaster about the lack of UL listing. It may simply be an oversight, but it should be researched further. And a lack of a manufacturers name is screaming China knock-off (read: I don't trust it).

 

[IOWNJUNK]

I think only you would know if your son is mature enough, as mentioned above, age really has nothing to do with it. I wouldn't leave my 16 year old alone with the item you linked because he doesn't know anything about it, yet he has hunted with a high power rifle since he was 11.

 

[pedrodagr8]

Thanks again everyone.
I have now been looking at power supplies on ebay, starting with the one nanofrog linked, which looks like the over engineered kind of equipment I like to purchase. I am not sure how important the max volt and amp capabilities are for his purposes. Would 40volts and 1 amp be limiting in general use? It also gets back to my original question of how many volt and amps to consider before getting worried about safety risks.
Caesar2001, which unit are you referring to when you say, "I think that power supply is a better choice. More voltage options. Looks similar to the Volteq unit on my desk at work." The older Trygon unit, or the newer one I originally linked? And thanks for diy power supply link. I think he also might have built one of those.

Madmechmaster, looking closer at the unit I was originally asking about, you are right, and I don't even see a manufacture's name on it. Again, I prefer to by quality once and be done with it.

I really appreciate the help with this guys. I wish I knew more on the subject.
Bill

1A @ 40V is not limiting for learning electronics. The problem is for some supplies, this 1A limit applies even at lower voltage, where it CAN become a limit. This is why most people like at least 1.5A limit minimum. You can get by with 1A and do 95% of stuff. One of the supplies that I linked to above which has the 0-6V@5A. This is more than enough for him to run a variety of digital devices and low voltage systems.

 

[LEVE]

Get you son in a HAM radio class...

 

[madison069]

That's pretty safe I would say but like others mention it does have a few question to it's reliaibilty. But I would think it's a good starting point just to gauge how much interest he has in the electronic field.

I play with AC and DC power supply here at work and only casualty I've had is a fried board or two. ***** when you fried a board on a $6 million dollar tool but part of troubleshooting sometime! LOL

 

[nanofrog]

Would 40volts and 1 amp be limiting in general use?

As mentioned, only for a relatively small % of projects he's likely to get into.

However, keep in mind the Trygon I linked previously is a dual supply, so operates in 3 modes.

1. Independent, which gives you two separate 0-40V@1A supplies that you can set to whatever you want. Handy, as projects tend to require multiple voltages.
2. Parallel, which ties them both together to generate 0-40V@2A. Effectively becomes a single supply in this configuration, so this is why most of us acquire multiple supplies over time, even when we have dual or triple supplies.
3. Series, which ties them both together for 0-80V@1A. Effectively becomes a single supply in this mode as well.

Versatile little supply IMHO.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Triple Channel Supply The is from Power Designs, one of several great companies: HP/Agilent, Sorensen, etc. (all american or european made). This one has two channels set for +/- operation out of the box (the upper two) and an additional higher amperage 0-6V channel (lower). The upper are -32 to which can be VERY useful for supplying digital devices in a mixed digital/analog circuit system. One thing to note is that these things are LARGE! Just noticed this is for parts (it says Source [email protected]). If you notice, the current limit adjuster is set differently from the ones above. I have a feeling it is set to 0.9A, but thats not guaranteed.

I actually have a later version of one of these (TP343B) as my primary supply.

An HP in rough shape, always take advantage of 'make an offer'. This is true even if they don't have a make an offer option on the page. Try sending an email and offering a lower price. You would be surprised at the number of times they will accept the offer on used equipment.

Good advice. Worst case, they say no/don't accept your offer.

1A @ 40V is not limiting for learning electronics. The problem is for some supplies, this 1A limit applies even at lower voltage, where it CAN become a limit. This is why most people like at least 1.5A limit minimum. You can get by with 1A and do 95% of stuff. One of the supplies that I linked to above which has the 0-6V@5A. This is more than enough for him to run a variety of digital devices and low voltage systems.

Don't forget parallel operation with that particular unit. Doubles the current to 2A.

Datasheet (.pdf)

 

[48RON54]

I'm really impressed

My 14 year old hasn't talked to me in months because I won't buy her a new iphone

you should be very proud of him

 

[IOWNJUNK]

I'm really impressed

My 14 year old hasn't talked to me in months because I won't buy her a new iphone

you should be very proud of him

She REALLY won't talk to you if you do buy her one.

 

[GuyllFyre]

If my daughter asked for one, I'd get it for her.
I don't do any projects that require more than 12VDC most of the time any longer, so I have a couple of different 12VDC supplies. One is an LED light power supply, around $20, puts out 12VDC and up to 30A. The other is an HP/Compaq power supply that will put out up to 60A. That one is a server supply with a Gigampz adapter for simplicity. I'm going to tak 5VDC and 3.3VDC off it at some point but for now, it's enough to power most car stereos and amps for testing.

 

[GuyllFyre]

Reminds me, I need to research, pick out, and order a new soldering station.
What I have now is making a mess of my motherboard capacitor replacement repairs.

 

[Kevin C]

Buying a single supply may not be all that limiting. Later, if he needs dual voltages, you can always buy another single supply. Really, thats not all that different than the two in one supplies.

 

[pedrodagr8]

Any update on this?

 

[joe_padavano]

You're asking about that little power supply?

How many of us had one of these as a child?

 

[bczygan]

I think I was 10 when I got this with the matching speaker.

I am now AA8MF.

But one of many things that transferred from childhood to adulthood.

Everything you expose a young and inquiring child to, will make his whole life richer and fuller.

 

[kjbenner]

One suggestion I didn't see mentioned here: get him a bunch of banana cables (different lengths) and accessories (couplers, alligator clip, micro-grabber, etc.). The most dangerous thing I see with power supplies is guys rigging up stupid stuff with test leads and bare wires and the like because they couldn't find the right cable or connector.