Is this garage salvageable?

[dent]

Its a two car detached garage in the backyard. The garage is
half below grade as the backyard rises up. the entrance is level with
the driveway and house and the rear is buried about 5ft up. Its
block construction with what appears to be a poured slab
underneath. The slab is broken up and uneven and the wall are bowing
inwards and separating in a "stair like" fashion in places. Some
cracks you can visibly see through the garage to outside (.5-1"). The
rear wall looks as if there was some internal bracing attempted at
some point. There is an approximately 5x5x1ft foot cement
reinforcement but it looks like it was post bowing. My guess is that
it was caused by hydro static pressure and/or tree roots. The
owner claims that it hasn't shifted in quite some time and the doors
all line up properly.

Overall i am trying to get an evaluation of the safety of the
structure, If it is salvageable, and what options there are to repair
and what it would cost. It appears to be very close to the property
line and what probably grandfathered into whatever setback
restrictions there were since then. So it seems starting over isnt an option. only "repair". I havent been able to confirm if doing a wall at a time is considered repair.

End goal is safe, dry, and flat. can i do it for $15k?

The pics!

http://imgur.com/a/oGQnb#l4nkmfv

 

[uniballer]

Ive seen worse!

 

[930dreamer]

Did you buy this property already? The area/earth at the rear of the garage can't be good on the structure. That looks like a lot of structural work. If you bought it already I hope you had a big price reduction.

Have an engineer look at it.

 

[justanengineer]

Personally, Ive helped fix crooked wood structures before and altho a PITA its do-able with cabling, jacks, and a lot of patience. Block/concrete structures OTOH scare the **** out of me, so Id be really curious to hear what some of the contractors have to say about this.

If it was me and I sensed a legal hassle with a new build in the same spot, Id be looking into jacking up the roof and replacing a wall or two at a time as "maintenance" rather than a tear down/new build.

 

[bgarrett]

I could not have that and would tear it out and start over. The water leaking in is unacceptable

 

[Steevo]

Salvage what?
The floor is completely shot.
The walls need to be torn down and rebuilt.
The shingle roof looks pretty bad, but the pic isn't too good, so maybe that isn't the case.
The earth all the way around it needs to be re-graded and it needs proper drainage around the outside. This would require trenching all the way to floor level, along the outside of all walls, so drain pipe and rock can be installed to carry away the water.

I don't see how you can fix the walls in place. Maybe some concrete specialist could straighten them up after the dirt was removed from the outside, and with the roof removed, put rebar down the hollow centers and pump them full f concrete.

 

[dent]

Am I looking at $15k?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[CNGsaves]

Am I looking at $15k?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Hard to say . . . . haven't even told GJ what country you're in?? Where is it??

Canada or Mexico or USA or Bolivia or Puerto Rico?? Which specific state??

Concrete prices and LABOR are greatly different by location!!

How much rainfall does location get?? Looks like no effort to shed water properly as no gutters, nor proper rock/drainage around garage.

In this earthquate-prone area??

Have you talked with foundation company who might sink plate in soil (if there's room) in soil behind garage and use big steel rods to attach wall to big chunk of soil in "sandwich" that keeps wall from moving any more?? This would still be more of "patch" rather than proper solution which would be yank that whole back wall out and do it right.

Similar steel "outer skeleton" may need done on entire sidewall to squeeze outer wall back together so whole wall doesn't fall apart. Maybe a "skim wall" of concrete could be poured around perimeter walls once this steel skeleton is in place (much like you add brick to a small footer).

Garage floor needs jackhammered out and repoured . . . but only AFTER all the 3 perimeter walls are secured and finished.

Roof needs tore off and redone. Gutters need added.

Lots of $$$$$$$$ . . . once you add up all the parts!!

 

[dent]

Northern NJ. No quakes.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[nmanitou]

You can't fix that for $15k no matter where you live. That's a mess. It might appear stable now, but that structure has "failed". One big rain and saturated soils could bring it down.

Two options to replace: complete rebuild with shoring and proper upslope drainage, or rebuild walls from within. For the complete rebuild you would need temporary shoring to retain the slope while you build. Then a properly reinforced new wall. Way over your budget.

I've seen a rebuild from within work. Essentially you use the existing wall as an outside form and pour a new reinforced wall inside. You would loose I terror space and probably spend more than your budget also.

 

[readhead]

As suggested above I would rebuild one wall at a time so you could keep it where it is. Support the roof, remove the wall, pour a new footing and replace the wall. When the walls are done pour a new floor. As for 15K not likley. The dirt is going to be a lot of hand work alone. If you are paying someone I think you are looking at 25-30 easy.

 

[crb]

Good excuse to buy a backhoe.

 

[puttsy]

That mirror totally threw me for a loop. Sat here trying to figure out how you had a center wall in a garage that size.

No comment about feasibility though. Doesn't look like something I would tackle for sure.

 

[p_mori7]

the earth all around needs to be excavated and a huge retaining wall put up. you cannot rely on the structure of the garage to act as the retaining wall. once the grade problem is adressed, then the structure can be replaced / repaired. looking at the pictures, i would think probably 30K for the repairs...

 

[dent]

Hrm... just got off the phone with a mason who checked out some pictures. He seems to think he can support the roof and rebuild the walls and re pour the concrete. He gave an initial estimate from the pictures of about $8500 and seemed pretty confident about it. I figure add another $2k for whatever. Seems off par for what you guys are saying though. Thoughts?


Appreciate all the feedback!


EDIT: yeah thats a damn clean mirror for being out in the garage...

 

[metalhead212121]

subscribing to this one..... where in NJ?

 

[Nick DL]

That seems like a mess. Good luck with the mason, hopefully you can get it fixed within your budget.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[dent]

Morris county.

We'll see. still have to talk with the town and see whats up as far as keeping it where it stands.

 

[upndown]

Given the amount of work to repair that thing properly..8500 seems low to me! But I am not a mason.

Once you get the structure rebuilt, you still have issues with your garage doors. The left one looks like it was hit, The right door appears to have the top section reinforced with lumber. Also being in such tight quarters I would hate to see one of those extension springs dancing all over your Benz! May be another expense you'll have to consider! Hope it works out for you..GOOD LUCK..

 

[readhead]

Is the mason including removing the dirt, new footings below frost, new walls fully grouted, waterproofing, replacing the dirt, etc, etc?

 

[Kevin54]

It can be fixed for $15g's if you are willing to do some work yourself, or know some friends with equipment. All the dirt at the back wall needs to come out for one thing then fix the block, waterproof the wall, then properly tile with stone to keep it from happening again. If you are resourceful, you can fix it, but if you are going to call someone in to fix it, maybe closer to $25g's and up.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Hrm... just got off the phone with a mason who checked out some pictures. He seems to think he can support the roof and rebuild the walls and re pour the concrete. He gave an initial estimate from the pictures of about $8500 and seemed pretty confident about it. I figure add another $2k for whatever. Seems off par for what you guys are saying though. Thoughts?


Appreciate all the feedback!


EDIT: yeah thats a damn clean mirror for being out in the garage...

Make sure you understand what he is going to do for the money. I think someone could do it for that money, but I couldn't.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Salvage what?
The floor is completely shot.
The walls need to be torn down and rebuilt.
The shingle roof looks pretty bad, but the pic isn't too good, so maybe that isn't the case.
The earth all the way around it needs to be re-graded and it needs proper drainage around the outside. This would require trenching all the way to floor level, along the outside of all walls, so drain pipe and rock can be installed to carry away the water.

I don't see how you can fix the walls in place. Maybe some concrete specialist could straighten them up after the dirt was removed from the outside, and with the roof removed, put rebar down the hollow centers and pump them full f concrete.

It can be fixed for $15g's if you are willing to do some work yourself, or know some friends with equipment. All the dirt at the back wall needs to come out for one thing then fix the block, waterproof the wall, then properly tile with stone to keep it from happening again. If you are resourceful, you can fix it, but if you are going to call someone in to fix it, maybe closer to $25g's and up.

I'd agree with both Steevo and Kevin. Although I'm not a mason either but I know what is going to take hard work. That structure has it written all over it and I would be very surprised if somebody could do it for $8500 and make a profit.

 

[dent]

Good input. I have to have a discussion with him when he looks at it to see what he plans to do. Keep the input coming!



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Zeke]

"Safe, dry and flat." IMHO, it will never be dry. So why chase the other 2?

Make no mistake, I like it, but it's no palace and I don't think it's worth the trouble.

 

[ZRX61]

He's quoting a price from looking at photos? Here's how that ends: You pay him $8500, he demolishes one wall, realises what he got into & walks away from the job... leaving you with no garage & no $$.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

Any wall you plan to up to replace needs to be designed to withstand the Lateral pressure of the earth behind it . Currently, I design walls like this to withstand 60psf. This needs the proper retaining wall design. And good exterior foundation waterproofing with drainge board with a perimter drain system to pipe the water away is always a good investment.

In some cases we will stabilize a structure that is failing like yours. But, that cost has to be weighed against a total replacment, since stabilization can quickly add up to the cost of new

 

[dent]

Retaining wall behind the garage or and appropriately strong garage wall?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[onewaydave]

I am far from expert on anything here. But seems to me this will never fly.

There are a lot of bermed houses around here but AFAIK they are all poured. Putting a single layer of cinder block as a retaining wall above the frost line doesn't make sense. The earth above frost line will move and ... I would imagine NJ has frost, now and then.

I would think and calculate long and hard, even as a DIY, before I committed to trying that on 15K. If hired out, just the foundation, with proper footing, could almost eat that. Least around here.

Dave.

 

[BlindViper]

Can it be repaired yes. Will it last no. You have 6 foot or so of soil being supported by concrete block. You need a formed concrete wall that will function as a retaining wall.

 

[atfulldraw]

I would take the roof off, yank the doors off, brick up the front wall, pile up dirt against it,
fill it with water and call it a pool.....

before I tried to fix that mess.

It needs more than 15K....

 

[CreekWV]

Seems like any repair to the building is going to require proper drainage and reinforcement along that back wall.
A small initial investment with a civil engineer is probably in order here.
I wonder if it would be feasible to dig the sides of the building out, and then go inside and remove the back wall and a couple feet of earth behind it. (That would depend on what type of soil you have there, and what is on the neighboring property, how wet it is, etc...hence the engineer discussion)
Pour a new wall in the back, waterproofed and drained properly. Then patch, core pour, and re-point the side walls as needed. That would keep you under the same roof and look like a repair vs a rebuild.
A lot of the work, like tearing out your slab, can be done by you, a credit card, and a rental yard if you have the time and gumption.
Good luck, keep us updated!

 

[dent]

In short availability I can probably get the Mason out there to look at it. But I'm guessing I'd have to take his quote with a grain of salt as it would probably just be to rebuild the walls and wouldn't account for things that an engineer would, like drainage and the grade weight.

From what I'm hearing here even reinforced block (barred and filled), probably would still leave me wet and under too much pressure?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[bgarrett]

a new block wall can be coated with a fibreglas slurry and be waterproof but FIRST you need a good floor and proper french drain

 

[taumac]

I would say yes and but its looks like alot of work. First thing is that dirt on back wall wether it putting a retaining wall up or reconstructing that wall to be able to support that hill and drainage system. Question is this structure grandfather in to old building codes.

 

[justanengineer]

I'd agree with both Steevo and Kevin. Although I'm not a mason either but I know what is going to take hard work. That structure has it written all over it and I would be very surprised if somebody could do it for $8500 and make a profit.

Seems rather low to pay for any contractor to my non-mason self too, but I think we are all over-estimating the work necessary. Ive done similar work on the farm (albeit replacing/straightening wooden walls, not block) and dont think its all that involved beyond laying the block itself. The roof can probably be jacked up and supported pretty easily with some basic blocking/shoring and a 20 ton bottle jack, that style/age of garage/shed usually isnt overly built. An excavator rented or borrowed for a day or two would also make fairly quick work of both the digging and old block/slab removal. On that small of a building, a single man working with a small mixer could also pour the slab themself. Basically, I see very little overhead and no additional help necessary, so a mason could probably keep his cost fairly low, and if the OP is anywhere near NYC he likely has access to plenty of union masons that do jobs like this on the side.

I'd venture a WAG on the cost (not price) for the digging at ~$1k, each wall at ~$700, and another ~$1k for the slab....so I think $8500 for just the masonry isnt unrealistic and on a building that small Id bet a hard worker could get it done in just a few days....or least Ive always been amazed by how quickly some guys work and wouldnt be surprised if this could be done over a long 3-4 day weekend.

As for necessary upgrades, personally Id be inclined to think twice about their "necessity." That garage isnt new by any means and is still standing despite the hill surrounding it. Not saying that upgrading the drainage and/or waterproofing would be a bad idea, but depending on the OP's use of the space his wallet might not be able to argue with history.

 

[Flange]

Lots of opinions already stated above and most of them are valid.

If you cant build somewhere else and wont get a permit to demolish and rebuild then you seem to be left with the option of "repair".

The "repair" will have to take the form of sectional demolition and replacement of the walls and floor, piece at a time. The first thing to consider is how to retain the soil loadings on the structure. My advice is to get a structural engineer to advise and design the "new" foundations, walls and floor. One quick-ish way of retaining the walls would be to put a diaphragm wall around the outside of the existing walls. You can then remove the existing walls and deal with the waterproofing and new wall construction without having to worry about how to retain the soil. That would not be cheap however.

Nothing is impossible but I do think that, unless you do a lot of the work yourself, $15k is a low price.

Whoever does the job for you, make sure you have a very detailed written quotation including a program of works and also listing what risks each party is liable for before you start.

 

[CNGsaves]

From the pics, can barely see the house which looks to be quite substantial.

What is overall VALUE (ie market price) of this house, garage & land?? Thus what is appraised value now - - ie with garage that is FAIL and looks like PO "gave up" on fixing it?? What would potential appraised value be with properly built garage??

Is it smart to "put lipstick on pig" and do makeshift repair??

Or would long-term value be better to just bite bullet and expend whatever cost necessary to get proper drainage and safety from future earth movement with STRONG retaining wall that is seperate from garage wall??

I sure would not spend $8,500 if it was just "lipstick on pig" and not an actual long-term fix.

 

[jwith68]

One note on the excavation cost: Anybody notice the 2'+ diameter tree stump just to the left? That tree is mostly responsible for the damage to the left wall, imo. That stump will have to go, and unless the tree has been removed for a lot longer time than it appears it has, that will be a lot of work. Most of the work needed here is exactly what mini-excavators were made for, but that stump is going to give any excavator small enough to maneuver around that back wall fits to remove.

 

[aar0s]

The way that back wall is leaning makes me think that the only drainage it has is through the wall and into the garage, and whats left of that tree has made a mess of the other wall . Just guessing, but I bet the walls were built on the slab with not much of a footer, floors cracked and then the walls. Id make sure that addressing the lack of drainage was priority on this rebuild. Have you though of doing a poured concrete wall?