Is this legal or safe ?

[sorethumb]

Long time lurker - just joined. Have learned a ton here. Thanks !!
Situation - 66 year old guy lives in boondocks. Same house 30 years - lose power quite often. 1 - 2 days at a time not unusual - 6 times over 7 days straight. Lived with 4k /5k Coleman powermate for years with tons of lead cords.
Can't pull the ripcord any more due to busted shoulder.

Upgraded to Generac XG8000E. Set up in garage with Reliance power inlet box wired to panel box in cellar. Has Interlockkit installed. All okay there -
the problem is how to tell when power comes back on. No neighbors, no one to call me.

Here's the Zinger - electrician buddy set me up with outlet in cellar way wired to top of panel where power comes in before breaker. When power goes out i just plug a nite light into outlet. when power comes back on nite lite comes on so I know everything is back to normal.

Yes - I tried to get one of those Powerback things but nobody has them.

At least its better than the suicide cords my neighbors use to back wire through welder, stove and drier outlets. That's stupid. I know that can hurt or kill someone.

Sorry for long winded - but this is this is best site I have found.

I am prepared to be flamed for stupidity or just plain ignorance of electricity.
Thanks
Sorethumb

 

[rsanter]

come direct off the panel with a romex wire that you pull through the house and to an outlet that you install at a central location. then plus in one of those safety flashlights that charge when powered and then lights when the power goes off

bob

 

[rlitman]

I believe that may possibly be legal, IF you provide a fuse for it.
There are ways to do this safely, but just connecting romex to unfused to your main, is not safe by itself.

 

[rkevins]

it would be safer if you fused the wire ( it's not rated for your service size) or pass through a small breaker box. the fuse/breaker is to protect the wire,incase of a short.

 

[PRH44]

This is an absolute must aon fusing this pilot light.
Do have a model number on the transfer switch?
Does your transfer switch contain individual breakers and toggles such as LINE -OFF- GENERATOR?
Our are you transferring an entire panel feed?

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Sorry for long winded - but this is this is best site I have found.

I am prepared to be flamed for stupidity or just plain ignorance of electricity.
Thanks
Sorethumb

This is the best site!

Anyone who criticizes you over electricity is more stupid and/or ignorant than you think you are. Electricity is a mystery. You can't see it. Good luck with your project.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Upgraded to Generac XG8000E. Set up in garage with Reliance power inlet box wired to panel box in cellar. Has Interlockkit installed. All okay there -
the problem is how to tell when power comes back on. No neighbors, no one to call me.

Seriously .... shouldn't the XG8000E or the Reliance power inlet have some kind of functionality that when the power comes back on and is on for a certain period of time ... like a 30 to 90 seconds ... the generator stops and the power is switched back over to the grid from the generator? I realize that might be pretty complicated.

 

[PRH44]

Its all about the type of transfer switch. Thats why I was requesting a model number on the transfer switch its self. This generator appears to be a manual start. The transfer switch may have power sensing ability.
A lot of residential transfer switches only transfer a few circuits. The rest of the home stays connected to the service and will come on when power is restored.

 

[pattenp]

The OP has no transfer switch. He's using an interlock on the main breaker with a breaker for the power inlet. It's an all manual set-up. I have the same thing using a portable generator. I don't know the power is back on until my neighbors auto whole house generator turns off.

 

[PRH44]

Pilot light is the way to go you can also use an audible. Just be sure to fuse the circuit.
I would use a small fusible disconnect mounted next to my panel and wire to pilot light locating of choice

 

[PRH44]

The OP has no transfer switch. He's using an interlock on the main breaker with a breaker for the power inlet. It's an all manual set-up. I have the same thing using a portable generator. I don't know the power is back on until my neighbors auto whole house generator turns off.

So that what he is referring to as a reliance power inlet box.

 

[Jagmandave]

You say the genset is in the garage, do you have the exhaust plumbed to the outside? Cause the CO can kill you.....I'm not sure just opening the garage door is enough.
do you have it plumbed to your propane tank, or nat gas line, or does it run on gasoline/diesel?

I understand what you're saying about the pilot light, but then you have to go check it periodically, right? Being you're in the boonies, there are no streetlights or neighbor's yardlights within view?

 

[casetractorfarmer]

Maby a radio too so that way you can here it if the power goes on and you not in the same room as the light

 

[wolftrucking]

It seems you know just enough to get yourself or someone else injured or killed
Prior to owning and opperating a trucking company I was a general contractorfor almost fifteen years I worked in residential,comercial and industrial fields so here is my advice.
call the power company and the local building code office.They will tell you what to use and if you can install it or if a licenced contractor needs to install it.Think down the road if you need to sell your home this can cause a Major Jam up.
What you dont know will hurt or kill you.

Lets do some math.........

Phone calls maby 1/2 to 1 hour if busy
proper unit 50 - 100 bucks
pro to install probly 100 bucks he buys the permit and inspection

Knowing you wont kill yourself or your family

Priceless............

 

[sorethumb]

Thanks for all the replies. I now see the error of my ways. I am going to take
wolftrucking's advice and do this right. I do anticipate selling this house sooner
or later. I knew what I wanted to accomplish and I did get there.
I just drove in the ditch getting there.
Thanks again to all who took the time to help me.
Sorethumb

 

[pattenp]

This is a generator power inlet box. It's on an interlocked breaker which prevents the main breaker from being on the same time as the breaker for the generator power inlet.

So that what he is referring to as a reliance power inlet box.

 

[sorethumb]

Thanks again guys - one final ( I hope !! ) question -
Am I gonna get busted if / when power company or whoever sees what
I have done ?

Or should I just put it all back the way it was ? Generator hookup is okay. Question refers to outlet wired so know when power comes back on.
Tnx

 

[35mastr]

I dont think your gonna get busted. They are going to tell you that its not ok to have it though.

 

[Thruxton]

"the problem is how to tell when power comes back on"

This is the OP's original question. The answer should be simple: connect a circuit powered only by the grid, and not by the generator, and have that circuit power something that says, "ON". Table lamp, siren, whatever. It is apparent from his post that he has a pretty good idea of how to set up a stand-by genset, I think. Which is pretty simple stuff, so let's not overcomplicate things. I think PRH44 made some good suggestions.

 

[Gary S]

The way we used to do it in rural commercial installations was to get the power company to allow us to install a neon indicator light on each incoming phase. These things draw basically no current, and will tell you when you have power and when you don't.

 

[gatchel]

Do you have a digital Meter? You might be able to tell by looking at the display. If it's out, no power...Sure it won't notify you but if you are just looking for a way to confirm power, there you go.

 

[sorethumb]

Hi guys - I am the Original Poster ( guess that is what OP means )
TNX to gatchel Re: digital meter - yes I do have one - great idea for summer
but in winter BAD news to get through snow to get to it. Security cam looking at it won't
work when power is out. Maybe set up mirrors so I can see from inside house ?

At any rate - thanks to all you guys for chipping in !!

Amazed this thread has over 1,000 views and only you guys offered your expertise !

Now the bad news -once I get this fixed I have a REALLY tough question for you guys
You guys are the best
Sorethumb

 

[fiddlingfiddler]

I believe that may possibly be legal, IF you provide a fuse for it.
There are ways to do this safely, but just connecting romex to unfused to your main, is not safe by itself.

The other thing to consider is the main lugs usually are not rated for multiple conductors.

 

[manioso]

Reliance makes a THP108 "Power Back". It is battery operated, and you turn it on when power goes off. When power returns it senses inductively and annunciates an alarm.

I bought one several years ago. I use it with my 10kw Generac and a lockout device to backfeed through a dedicated 50amp circuit. (Same as the lockout pictured earlier in this thread).

It's legal, but not particularly convenient. Service entrance and panel are in basement. Means going down there with a flashlight to throw the interlock, turn on the sensor, and then light up the generator. However, is a lot less expensive that either full or partial load ATS, and with auto start-stop, gets even more expensive. It's a compromise, but appropriate for me.