Is this "shill bidding"?

[The Rusty Gear]

Just wondering WTF is up with this crazy bidding and how they magically stopped 78 cents short of my maximum bid . . . . . . I don't think I'm that lucky . . .

Item number:180358414150
Bidder Bid Amount Bid Time
miket450( 44) US $36.78 25-May-09 16:35:21 EDT
r***0( 23) US $36.00 25-May-09 16:59:00 EDT
r***0( 23) US $34.00 25-May-09 16:58:55 EDT
r***0( 23) US $32.00 25-May-09 16:58:49 EDT
r***0( 23) US $30.00 25-May-09 16:58:46 EDT
r***0( 23) US $28.00 25-May-09 16:58:44 EDT
r***0( 23) US $26.00 25-May-09 16:58:42 EDT
r***0( 23) US $24.50 25-May-09 16:58:38 EDT
r***0( 23) US $23.50 25-May-09 16:58:34 EDT
r***0( 23) US $22.50 25-May-09 16:58:32 EDT
r***0( 23) US $21.50 25-May-09 16:58:30 EDT
r***0( 23) US $20.50 25-May-09 16:58:29 EDT
r***0( 23) US $19.50 25-May-09 16:58:26 EDT
r***0( 23) US $18.50 25-May-09 16:58:23 EDT
r***0( 23) US $17.50 25-May-09 16:58:18 EDT
u***n( 117) US $15.99 25-May-09 09:35:23 EDT
r***0( 23) US $15.00 24-May-09 19:24:56 EDT
r***f( 734) US $12.00 23-May-09 15:26:39 EDT
8***l( 85) US $11.99 22-May-09 08:21:15 EDT
r***f( 734) US $10.00 23-May-09 15:26:26 EDT
d***i( 22) US $3.99 22-May-09 17:49:44 EDT
e***u( 239) US $1.00 22-May-09 00:42:51 EDT
Starting Price US $0.99 18-May-09 17:00:00 EDT

 

[Delray]

It could just be someone running it up to find what the max is and then changed their mind and did not follow through with a higher bid but who knows if you can't identify the bidder. You may look at the sellers other items and see if someone with that number of feedbacks is bidding on them also. I don't know if they would reuse the code r***0. I do not like the anonymous bidding scheme EBAY came up with either. Seems to me it makes shill bidding harder to catch.

 

[The Rusty Gear]

It could just be someone running it up to find what the max is and then changed their mind and did not follow through with a higher bid but who knows if you can't identify the bidder. You may look at the sellers other items and see if someone with that number of feedbacks is bidding on them also. I don't know if they would reuse the code r***0. I do not like the anonymous bidding scheme EBAY came up with either. Seems to me it makes shill bidding harder to catch.

r***0 also has done over half his bidding with this seller.

Is there anything I can do? I can't whine too much since I was willing to pay my max bid, but if this was shilling, I should have paid $20 less!

Most of the bids were 2 seconds apart! I don't think my browser refreshes that quickly!

 

[tankboy_taylor]

could be shill bidding this same thing seems to happen to me when Im really about to get a great deal and its always someone with a real low feedback

 

[Basskiller]

thats happened to me before. I wont buy anything else from that seller.

 

[tw33k2514]

Looks to me like the seller has another account to drive up his auctions. It is very common, and very scumbagish. Donno what you can do about it though.

 

[Hiball]

Looks to me like the seller has another account to drive up his auctions. It is very common, and very scumbagish. Donno what you can do about it though.

If you click on the bidders name it gives you his statistics, Percentage of bids with this seller is a great place to look. If you see that he only bids with this seller or the majority theres a good chance it is the seller bidding up his item.

 

[The Rusty Gear]

If you click on the bidders name it gives you his statistics, Percentage of bids with this seller is a great place to look. If you see that he only bids with this seller or the majority theres a good chance it is the seller bidding up his item.

Low feedback (23 IIRC) But over half the bidding is done with this seller.

Sould I report this?

 

[Hiball]

Well he bid 15 times on that 1 item so i that is could bring the percentage up a bit. Its almost impossible to prove unless they check the ip's and they match. The best thing you can do is bid your judgment and let the criminals hang themselves. I would be curious to what ebays response would be although.

 

[tw33k2514]

If it were me(its not), I would have a friend do it that lives far away...so if they IP match someone, that person is a *****.

 

[Delray]

r***0 also has done over half his bidding with this seller.

Is there anything I can do? I can't whine too much since I was willing to pay my max bid, but if this was shilling, I should have paid $20 less!

Most of the bids were 2 seconds apart! I don't think my browser refreshes that quickly!

Check the sellers feedback and see if you can tell if this bidder bought anything from him.

You could report it as being suspicious and see what EBAY says.

 

[bchee]

That looks suspicious to me. Good luck with that. I don't know what ebay will do if you contact them.
I just went back and checked an auction that I won. It looks like it didn't happen to me, luckily.
This discourages me from bidding my "max" bid, even though that's what ebay tells you to do.

 

[tw33k2514]

I usually throw in my max bid with like 5 seconds left. and never end up reaching it.

 

[Delray]

I usually put in a low starting bid then wait until the end and decide what I will pay. I bit on a few 2nd chances with only one poor result but I tend to shy away from them.

 

[bchee]

I usually throw in my max bid with like 5 seconds left. and never end up reaching it.

That's what I usually do, however I'm thinking that if the seller has an automated bidding program, then within those last few seconds, he could still drive up the bid price.

 

[forceyoda]

I usually throw in my max bid with like 5 seconds left. and never end up reaching it.

That's how i do it too. Put in a low initial bid and don't put in your true max until the very end.

 

[krehmkej]

http://www.esnipe.com

I enter my best bid, then let esnipe do the rest. I never enter what the item is worth to me. Win some, lose some.

 

[-B-]

Low feedback (23 IIRC) But over half the bidding is done with this seller.

Sould I report this?

Yes and retract your bids too leave you reason for retraction as shill bidding by seller.

 

[jay50]

Shill bidding

 

[35mastr]

I just watch the auction and go all in right at the last seconds. Win it every time.

 

[Nik]

I've used esnipe for years and have been nothing but happy with the service. If you absolutely have to have something, this is the way to go.

Nik

http://www.esnipe.com

I enter my best bid, then let esnipe do the rest. I never enter what the item is worth to me. Win some, lose some.

 

[Merkava_4]

That guy doesn't seem to be trying very hard to hide his shill bids; one bid every other minute and by the same account. . .

 

[heffneil]

I like bidnapper.com just my 2 cents. That looks and seems like shill bidding. I would report it. Let ebay look in to it.

I don't know but maybe you can give us the item number so we know to avoid said seller?

 

[tw33k2514]

I can do what all these programs do myself for free....

 

[rsanter]

shill bidding is easy to do as you can bid up in small increments and watch what the next bid goes to.
if the bid increment is $1 and then you notice that you were outbid by less than $1 then you just found out what the max bid is and you can stop bidding because you know if you bid again you will outbid the other guy

bob

 

[Danglerb]

Looks like roll of the dice to me, not shill bidding.

Sellers don't know your max bid amount until after the auction, so it looks to me like somebody else wanted item and walked the price up until they didn't want it.

No retracted bids.

Seller has a LOT of auctions, and some stuff sold cheap.

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

Shill bidding could be caught if its the same IP but i would guess most shill bidding sellers use other people to bid on their items making it almost impossible to catch.

 

[Ramblur]

shill bidding is easy to do as you can bid up in small increments and watch what the next bid goes to.
if the bid increment is $1 and then you notice that you were outbid by less than $1 then you just found out what the max bid is and you can stop bidding because you know if you bid again you will outbid the other guy

bob

BINGO! Bob wins. You've been had.

 

[The Rusty Gear]

BINGO! Bob wins. You've been had.

My thoughts exactly. This was not a Snipe or someone putting in a bid just before the end of the auction. Heck, I've even put in 3 or 4 last minute bids "OK just another couple of bucks", but not 14. Like bob said, when they saw 78 cents as the increment come up, they knew it was my last bid.

I have reported this and the automated ebay response was the following:

Thank you for taking the time to write to eBay's Safe Harbor department.
Shill Bidding is a serious offense and we are very concerned about any
potential violation on our site.

We will thoroughly investigate these accounts for possible Shill Bidding
by looking at the information you have provided, as well as our internal
records.

eBay is committed to preventing Shill Bidding. In order to protect our
community members from threats such as fake Second Chance Offers, we
have changed how bidders' user IDs are displayed in the Bid History and
Item Listing pages on eBay. eBay limits how Bid History information is
displayed by using masked user IDs, such as a***a. While specific user
IDs may no longer be visible, eBay still has access to bidding
information that helps us identify and investigate possible Shill
Bidding.

We've invested heavily in Shill detection systems that enable us to
proactively detect and investigate possible Shill Bidding. Our detection
systems collect more information on selling and/or bidding activity than
the public has access to so we can detect patterns and ascertain
identities much more accurately.

While we proactively search the site for Shill Bidding, we continue to
investigate community reports of suspicious behavior, and take action
when appropriate. Our actions may include issuing a warning, a temporary
or indefinite suspension, or terminating the eBay membership.

Sometimes, what appears to be Shill Bidding may actually be legitimate
bidding activity. This can occur for a number of reasons. For example, a
bidder may bid almost exclusively on one or two sellers whom they have
come to trust. If we find there is not enough evidence to suggest a
Shill Bidding violation has occurred, we may not take action against any
of the reported accounts.

Please keep in mind that due to our Privacy Policy, we can't discuss the
details of an investigation with another member. We hope that this
assures you that your account information will also remain private. We
pledge, though, that an eBay Safe Harbor representative will carefully
review your Shill Bidding report, usually within 72 hours.

***Note***

- Please do not respond to this email, as your reply will not be
received.
- In certain circumstances, we may contact you by email if we need
further information.

We know that your time is valuable and we appreciate you taking a moment
to express your concern to us. Thank you for helping to keep eBay a safe
and reputable forum in which to conduct business.

Regards,

The eBay Safe Harbor Team

 

[The Rusty Gear]

That guy doesn't seem to be trying very hard to hide his shill bids; one bid every other minute and by the same account. . .

Every other minute? That was every other SECOND!

 

[The Rusty Gear]

I like bidnapper.com just my 2 cents. That looks and seems like shill bidding. I would report it. Let ebay look in to it.

I don't know but maybe you can give us the item number so we know to avoid said seller?

Item number:180358414150

(stated in my original post )

 

[Lhorn]

I wonder if Ebay really cares about shill bidding. Of course they will pretend they do to preserve their good names....but if allowing shill bidding to occur under their nose drives up prices, don't they end up getting paid more? Perhaps hiding the identity of bidders makes it harder for people to identify shill bidders. Just a thought. Just one of the many reasons that I've gotten away from Ebay.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hummm... Now that I think about it, I believe that I had been involved in a shill bidding event over the last winter. I had bought a set of 1/2" drive, chrome deep socket metric sockets for $221 plus shipping. There were over thirty bids on that item, and twenty five of them came in rapid fire succession from one other party, meanwhile I had won the auction by $0.50!

Adam

 

[Danglerb]

Ebay apparently does one of three things, suspend, restrict, and/or make you take this tutorial so you don't "accidently" shill bid.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/sbiddingtutorial/intro.html

 

[The Rusty Gear]

Hummm... Now that I think about it, I believe that I had been involved in a shill bidding event over the last winter. I had bought a set of 1/2" drive, chrome deep socket metric sockets for $221 plus shipping. There were over thirty bids on that item, and twenty five of them came in rapid fire succession from one other party, meanwhile I had won the auction by $0.50!

Adam

I was "shilled" many years ago in the early days of ebay. They bid 8 times then retracted thier last bid when they got to my max and started winning. I was new to ebay back then and didn't know what had happened. I went back in my history and looked up that old seller. "no longer a registered user" Hmmm. In my mind someone else reported them.

 

[Packard V8]

eBay has a pretty good algorithm to identify shill bidding and they catch literally thousands of unsophisticated attempts every week. However, if a seller goes to the trouble to set up dozens of accounts, he can still shaft you. On cars, maybe worth it. On tools, lots of work for very little money, however. Use a sniping program, put in your max and never look back.

thnx, jack vines

 

[Danglerb]

Shill bidding can also be his "buddy" at work that tries to help him out. I often make bids on items friends have for sale, but usually only low ball, get the bidding started type bids.

Are you guys SURE about the next bid amount changing thing? That would be major sloppy on ebays side if true.

 

[Danglerb]

I posed the question on ebay support, with this answer so far.

No, it's not true. No one can see the bidder's max except the bidder. And eBay's "you must bid X amount next" has nothing to do with the current high bidder's maximum bid. It only has to do with the showing high bid.

Please tell your friend that bidding in small amounts is not called shill bidding. It's called nibble bidding and is completely harmless (ineffective, but not a crime). It is how most new eBayers bid. It is certainly not a felony, as shilling is. Your friend should read up on how eBay works before he "educates" anyone else.

 

[deeno]

I've used www.ezsniper.com for years. I just put in the max I'm willing to pay and it takes care of the bid for me. My success rate is about 80%.

I recently had one where ezsniper couldn't bid my amount because of the minimum bid increment issue. I try to pick obscure values that end in .75 and are about $2-3 away from ending in a $5 amount. (example $108.75)

 

[The Rusty Gear]

Shill bidding can also be his "buddy" at work that tries to help him out. I often make bids on items friends have for sale, but usually only low ball, get the bidding started type bids.

Are you guys SURE about the next bid amount changing thing? That would be major sloppy on ebays side if true.

ABSOLUTELY.

Take a look at the last few bids.

When he bid $32, he would be loosing and the "highest bid" is now $33.
When he bid $34, he would be loosing and the "highest bid" is now $35.
Then he bid $36, he would be loosing BUT the "highest bid" is now $36.78 (Not $37 as bid increments dictate)
UREKA! he's found *my* maximum bid!!!! ie the bid increment is $1, but the bid is only raised $.78 because that is my max bid. . ..