Is this the correct wire?

[Ralphxj]

My neighbor just ran power to his shop (direct bury) and had some wire leftover. He told me I could have it, and it just happens to be the exact size and almost enough length I need. I just want to confirm that it IS the correct wire to run underground? Also want to know what i need to do to run it up into the breaker panel in the shop? It will go to a junction box on the corner of the house, and then I'll need another section of the same size to runit up the wall and into the attic and down into the house panel since the free stuff isnt long enough to run panel to panel.

So is this the correct wire to run underground in conduit? Can I run it up inside the wall to the shop panel? Do i have to run it up the outside of the shop wall then through the wall i to the back of the panel in conduit?

 

[theoldwizard1]

So is this the correct wire to run underground in conduit? Can I run it up inside the wall to the shop panel? Do i have to run it up the outside of the shop wall then through the wall i to the back of the panel in conduit?

It is fine in conduit underground. Not sure about running inside walls WITHOUT conduit. It would probably be easier to come up the outside, through the wall and into the panel.

 

[mm08822]

This cable can not enter the building - conduit or not. You will need to transition to ser or xhhw in conduit or thhn/thwn in conduit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That is URD and not rated for use inside regardless if it is in conduit.

You will need to transition to SER or chhw al in conduit on each end.

Did your neighbor run it inside?

 

[klassenl]

This cable can not enter the building - conduit or not. You will need to transition to ser or xhhw in conduit or thhn/thwn in conduit.

Code Rule?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Code Rule?

The wire is missing an RHH/RHW rating which is required for use indoors.

Furthermore, URD is not a cable type recognized by the NEC.

 

[u2slow]

That is URD and not rated for use inside regardless if it is in conduit.

Its marked "USE-2"...

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/xlp-use-2-rhh-rhw-2/

USE-2 Cable Properties
Underground
Service
Entrance Cable
Rated for Direct Burial
600 V Stranded Building Wire, UL recognized cross-linked Polyethylene Insulation XLPE

Application:
USE-2 cables are primarily used for power distribution, in raceways in accordance with National Electrical Code, except that the cable is not rated for use in cable tray. USE-2 is approved for direct burial and for service entrance below ground. USE-2 cables may be used in wet or dry locations, with ambient temperatures not exceeding 90°C. Voltage rating for USE-2 cable is 600V

Applicable Standards:
USE-2 meets or exceeds the following standards
UL 44
Requirements of the National Electrical Code
ASTM standards B 800, B 801
Sunlight resistant

Description:
Single copper conductor, stranded, insulated with moisture and heat resistant, chemically cross-linked polyethylene insulation. Temperature rating 90° C in wet and dry applications.available.

Insulation:
USE-2 has abrasion, heat and moisture resistant cross-linked polyethylene insulation XLPE

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Its marked "USE-2"...

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/xlp-use-2-rhh-rhw-2/

I missed the USE-2 rating so this one is a recognized NEC cable type.

However, USE and USE-2 WITHOUT the RHH/RHW rating CANNOT be used indoors.

https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/SepOct2007.pdf

 

[rlitman]

The wire is missing an RHH/RHW rating which is required for use indoors...

That rating could be on the conductors. We'd need to see a stripped section to see if it could be transitioned to conduit indoors.

 

[u2slow]

I missed the USE-2 rating so this one is a recognized NEC cable type.

However, USE and USE-2 WITHOUT the RHH/RHW rating CANNOT be used indoors.

https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/SepOct2007.pdf

I get what you're saying. I believe USE-2 implies the RHH/RHW rating... as discussed in this 2008 article:

https://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/use-se

Type USE-2 contains conductors with insulation equivalent to RHW-2 or XHHW-2 and is rated at 90°C in a wet, damp or dry installation. T

EDIT: Seems odd the OP's wire has phase A, B, C markings.... is that custom ordered/marked wire? Or is this wire already stripped out of a cable?

 

[rlitman]

For code purposes, it doesn't imply anything unless the markings are actually there. Technically, the same goes for extending Romex conductors through conduit, which is not allowed, because the conductors are not marked.

In the case of USE-2, sometimes the manufacturer marks the conductors, and sometimes they don't.

 

[u2slow]

Between the USE-2 and XLPE markings.... that's all the criteria for XHHW-2 anyway.

If you're doing permitted work, may as well ask your inspector he'll allow it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I get what you're saying. I believe USE-2 implies the RHH/RHW rating... as discussed in this 2008 article:

https://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/use-se



EDIT: Seems odd the OP's wire has phase A, B, C markings.... is that custom ordered/marked wire? Or is this wire already stripped out of a cable?

Did you read the U/L link I posted?

It doesnt imply anything.

If it doesnt have the RHH/RHW marking then its not permitted indoors.

The A, B, and C phase markings are because this cable is typically used for 3-phase service from the pole or underground lateral to the meter pan. Notice the yellow stripe? The wire is NOT stripped out of a cable. It did not have an outer jacket.

 

[alfredeneuman]

It's used for single phase distribution too with the yellow as the neutral wire, provided it's 3 conductor

 

[ard]

EDIT: Seems odd the OP's wire has phase A, B, C markings.... is that custom ordered/marked wire? Or is this wire already stripped out of a cable?

I was wondering the same....

 

[Dagny]

The reason is it isn't flame retardant.

 

[Ralphxj]

Ok, trying to read through all the posts. There are 4 seperate wires, there was no outer jacket covering the enter assembly, it came off the spool as you see it. One wire has the yellow stripe. My neighbor bought it for direct bury for his shop, not sure who recommended this, or where he bought it. I'm not sure if he ran it into his house or shop, i only helped him pull it into the trench in the middle so he could get his driveway usable again. I believe the 3 wires without the yellow line are all 2/0, so maybe this wire was intended for 3-phase with a ground?

 

[u2slow]

Did you read the U/L link I posted?

It doesnt imply anything.

If it doesnt have the RHH/RHW marking then its not permitted indoors.

The A, B, and C phase markings are because this cable is typically used for 3-phase service from the pole or underground lateral to the meter pan. Notice the yellow stripe? The wire is NOT stripped out of a cable. It did not have an outer jacket.

Yes, thanks... I usually see phase A, B, C or 1, 2, 3 on conductors *in* cable. Also no temperature marking, and the missing RHH/RHW/XHHW led me to believe the reason the info is incomplete is the missing cable jacket.

Yes, I read the article. Its equivalent, but says still not allowed. I've also asked my inspector if I could use individual wires from a 250kcmil ACWU cable in my 200A conduit mast. He allowed it. That's not supposed to fly either.

Multiconductor Type USE-2 contains insulation equivalent to RHW-2 or XHHW-2 and is rated 90°C wet or dry. Single and multiconductor Types USE and USE-2 are not suitable for use in premises or aboveground except to terminate at the service equipment or metering equipment

If this a substantial length of wire, I'd still ask my AHJ if he would accept it to supply a detached building. The application is similar to a service entrance. Maybe the OP wants a meter base on the shop roughed in for future considerations.

OTOH, if its only a small amount and OP needs 3-4x as much to complete the run... its all a moot point. A box and splice for that size cable will cost more than simply buying the extra length.

 

[mike93lx]

Yes, thanks... I usually see phase A, B, C or 1, 2, 3 on conductors *in* cable. Also no temperature marking, and the missing RHH/RHW/XHHW led me to believe the reason the info is incomplete is the missing cable jacket.

Yes, I read the article. Its equivalent, but says still not allowed. I've also asked my inspector if I could use individual wires from a 250kcmil ACWU cable in my 200A conduit mast. He allowed it. That's not supposed to fly either.



If this a substantial length of wire, I'd still ask my AHJ if he would accept it to supply a detached building. The application is similar to a service entrance. Maybe the OP wants a meter base on the shop roughed in for future considerations.

OTOH, if its only a small amount and OP needs 3-4x as much to complete the run... its all a moot point. A box and splice for that size cable will cost more than simply buying the extra length.

Without written rules, what your AHJ wants doesn't matter. Not sure why you are so concerned about your inspector's opinion

 

[u2slow]

Without written rules, what your AHJ wants doesn't matter. Not sure why you are so concerned about your inspector's opinion

Simple really... inspector passed my job with the wire I had. I think that's what the OP is looking for too.

 

[mike93lx]

Simple really... inspector passed my job with the wire I had. I think that's what the OP is looking for too.

So did you use wire that wasn't to code and you are OK with it because the inspector approved?

I get wanting the process to go smoothly, but the inspector doesn't get to make rules

 

[u2slow]

So did you use wire that wasn't to code and you are OK with it because the inspector approved?

Yes. The inspector felt it met the intent of the Code and approved it.

 

[ard]

There was a situation here a few years ago where a building inspector explicitly approved a construction method that was in violation of the codes. Home failed. Inspector and county not responsible for any damages.

I view inspectors as a regulatory annoyance, nothing more.


YMMV

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok, trying to read through all the posts. There are 4 seperate wires, there was no outer jacket covering the enter assembly, it came off the spool as you see it. One wire has the yellow stripe. My neighbor bought it for direct bury for his shop, not sure who recommended this, or where he bought it. I'm not sure if he ran it into his house or shop, i only helped him pull it into the trench in the middle so he could get his driveway usable again. I believe the 3 wires without the yellow line are all 2/0, so maybe this wire was intended for 3-phase with a ground?

PoCos do not fistribute grounds with services.

This cable is used for 3-phase service with a NEUTRAL.

Simple really... inspector passed my job with the wire I had. I think that's what the OP is looking for too.

So were no longer looking to do things the right way?

Yes. The inspector felt it met the intent of the Code and approved it.

And yet the inspector is wrong.

Inspectors do get things wrong. They dont know code well sometimes.

And if it turns out that it needs to be ripped out, you cant hold them accountable.

 

[Norcal]

Simple really... inspector passed my job with the wire I had. I think that's what the OP is looking for too.

Just because a inspector passed it does not make it correct.

 

[u2slow]

So were no longer looking to do things the right way?

And yet the inspector is wrong.

Inspectors do get things wrong. They dont know code well sometimes.

And if it turns out that it needs to be ripped out, you cant hold them accountable.

This is a snippet of what my rules are:

21 (1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), a person must not use electrical equipment in British Columbia, or offer for sale, sell, display or otherwise dispose of electrical equipment for use in British Columbia, unless the electrical equipment displays a label or mark as follows:

a certification mark;
a label or mark of a certification agency that is acceptable to the appropriate provincial safety manager to certify electrical equipment for a specific installation;

He witnessed the ACWU90 cable I was taking the conductors from. Good enough for him. I'm not the inspector. I didn't lose any sleep over it. I'd ask to do the same again. If the answer is no, then I buy different conductors.

 

[Ralphxj]

So to confirm, this wire is ok to use underground from building to building, just can't enter the building with it?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is a snippet of what my rules are:



He witnessed the ACWU90 cable I was taking the conductors from. Good enough for him. I'm not the inspector. I didn't lose any sleep over it. I'd ask to do the same again. If the answer is no, then I buy different conductors.

Thats great. So the inspector can be wrong and you dont care about doing things the right way. Got it. As long as some ignorant inspectors passes it, everything is good.

So to confirm, this wire is ok to use underground from building to building, just can't enter the building with it?

correct IF there is no RHH/RHW rating on the jacket.

 

[Ralphxj]

correct IF there is no RHH/RHW rating on the jacket.

Awesome! I don't believe I've seen RHH/RHW on there, but I will double check. Can't complain too much about 60ft of free wire!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Awesome! I don't believe I've seen RHH/RHW on there, but I will double check. Can't complain too much about 60ft of free wire!

so you will need 2 j boxes, 2 lengths of SER or other permitted wire method, along with splice connectors and tape (if using split bolts) to be able to use this wire.

 

[u2slow]

Thats great. So the inspector can be wrong and you dont care about doing things the right way. Got it. As long as some ignorant inspectors passes it, everything is good.

We agree to disagree. The rest is Code nit-pickery. There's more than 1 way to do things 'right' when at least 3 different north american Codes don't see eye to eye.

 

[mike93lx]

so you will need 2 j boxes, 2 lengths of SER or other permitted wire method, along with splice connectors and tape (if using split bolts) to be able to use this wire.

Might be worth pricing out wire that you can run inside and conduit end to end. Once you add on everything wylies listed, you might be at a wash. Plus you won't have two big *** junction boxes outside,... Just LB's

 

[Ralphxj]

Might be worth pricing out wire that you can run inside and conduit end to end. Once you add on everything wylies listed, you might be at a wash. Plus you won't have two big *** junction boxes outside,... Just LB's

Which wire would I be able to run end to end? What size boxes will I need?

 

[mike93lx]

Which wire would I be able to run end to end? What size boxes will I need?

2awg xhhw gets you 90a

2" conduit would make it a breeze. 1.5 would work as well

If you do boxes, they need to be something like 4x the conduit diameter, so 8" square. Someone can confirm

 

[Ralphxj]

2awg xhhw gets you 90a

2" conduit would make it a breeze. 1.5 would work as well

If you do boxes, they need to be something like 4x the conduit diameter, so 8" square. Someone can confirm

Hoping for closer to 125amp.

So I can run XHHW from panel to panel? Does it need to be in conduit inside?

 

[mike93lx]

Hoping for closer to 125amp.

So I can run XHHW from panel to panel? Does it need to be in conduit inside?

Then upsize accordingly.

It has no outer jacket so it requires conduit inside. If that isn't feasible, you could put boxes indoor, then it is just a question if the coat of buying wire outweighs the outdoor boxes

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hoping for closer to 125amp.

So I can run XHHW from panel to panel? Does it need to be in conduit inside?

Before picking an ampacity for the feeder, you need to check what the max breaker rating is for the main service panel bus stabs. Also need to check what breakers are available.

You may be limited to less than 125a.

 

[Ralphxj]

Before picking an ampacity for the feeder, you need to check what the max breaker rating is for the main service panel bus stabs. Also need to check what breakers are available.

You may be limited to less than 125a.

I might be limited to 100 right now, but I know an upgrade in the house to 200amp panel is in the near future to get 125amp to the shop.

 

[mike93lx]

What are you running in the shop that could need that much power?

 

[Ralphxj]

What are you running in the shop that could need that much power?

Cnc plasma table, 7.5hp compressor, lights and stereo are pulling 55amp right now on a 60amp circuit. I can only stand and watch the table cut right now. Would like to be able to grind, weld, etc. while the table is cutting. Also have a 15hp rotary phase converter and a Dake semi-auto cold saw that I could be using while everything else is doing its thing.